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Old Aug 26th, 2013, 16:00 PM   31
bugs
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Welcome Heather, IKWYM about the other thread. I understand that pregnancy comes with a whole new set of worries but when being pregnant is the one thing you want and dream of listening to others talk about it can be hard especially when this is the place we come to get away from it.

Well I've just finished the referral forms for the new clinic 4 hours later. I was going through my notes and for every cycle I've got an SA for Ray a follicle count sheet whilst in stimms and an embryology form which shows how many eggs collected and how many mature and so on. Well I've got them for every cycle except the last one I only have a follicle count sheet. My notes also completely stop after egg collection it shows my egg collection was done and the next notes are when I requested a copy of my patient notes. Does anyone else think this is a little suspicious that the cycle that I had zero fertilisation there is absolutely nothing detailing what happened. I've emailed the clinic to ask for the missing information but I think it's very strange xxx



 
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Old Aug 26th, 2013, 16:18 PM   32
cvaeh
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Hi
when i requested my notes for when we went Belgium i always got that a3 sheet with how many progressed etc but i always had something fertilize even if it was abnormal at care. I would phone up and ask them though as it usually has notes on about how easily the eggs injected etc.

I am not looking forward to my follow up as i think i can tell him more than he can tell me and i don't want to be patronized x x

Well i am now sat watching American pie will a glass of wine. It is the first film me and dh watched together 10years a go. I am so lucky to have him x x x



 
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 06:16 AM   33
bubumaci
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Hello ... I think this thread is a fabulous idea!!! Thank you for starting it.
I am very active on another thread that started in Spring of last year ... where the majority of the ladies have in the meantime either had their babies / are getting pregnant ... and as you all say : I am thrilled for them ... really - no-one understands the pain of it not working better than us, who have had multiple failures.

I would love to join you on here, if that is OK?
My history is in my signature, summarised - but I will write it down for you...

As soon as we were married in October 2010, we started trying for a baby. After a few months, I started with the OPKs (DH was always sweet, wanting to know if we had a smiley face) ... and after a couple of months with those, I got the Clear Blue Fertility Monitor (which, incidentally, I love) ... and DH started asking "do we have an egg?" (Still asks to this day *lol*)! I also started BBT testing. And I love charting! Even in the months when I know we can't expect pregnancy, I love knowing when I am ovulating and - even better - knowing when I am getting my period!! Just love that!

Sooo... I knew that something was wrong, because our timing was right and in May 2011, I trotted off to my Gynaecologist to get checked up. Well, everything came back normal, so I begged DH to get his tested... He wanted to keep trying and kept saying, I will go next month if it doesn't work... End of August he did finally go and then rang me, heartbroken, with the words "it's my fault". ... Broke my heart to hear that - both because of him and, well, because I started living the nightmare that I had always feared. (I know, so many families have sob stories - mine is not spectacular ... family split up. Father remarried - and one year later I was sent to live with my Mother ... Three years after that, Father and wife adopt two girls... I spend most of my youth and later years travelling back and forth between family, Christmases are not the way I believed they should be ... without one parent... I used to cry and think "some day, I will make it be for my family, for my children, the way a family should be" - and that was my candle of hope in my window - well for going on 25 years now)... I had always been terrified of infertility.

OK - so we had the diagnosis : practically no sperm and what was there was non-motile and with poor morphology. So I wanted to make an appointment with the clinic that my friend had recommended (pregnant both times first try - she said, the clinic is definitely the best in our region, if not the country / Europe) ... First appointment was October 17th (2011) - where the u/s showed that I would respond well to medication and they wanted to try to get some sperm from DH. First with a normal SA, then by giving him something to widen tubes (in case there was a "room" problem) - neither resulted in anything positive and DH was sent to a Urologist for further testing (there was talk of doing a TESE to try to retrieve sperm from the tissue) - but nothing good there. The doctors have no explanation for his - in the meantime diagnosed - Azoospermia (most ever in an SA 250 K ... with 0% motility)... The urologist wanted to try him on Tamoxifen (I was shocked when I heard that, as I associated the medicine with breast cancer patients). The reason for this is - he could find no cause for the Azoospermia - sometimes some was found, sometimes none - he had no guarantee that the part of hte testicles biopsied would provide what we needed .... so ....After 6 weeks of taking the tablets, he provided an SA - and they actually found 13 Mio sperm with 8% motility. They froze 6 straws. I cried with joy - we were onto ICSI and we had something to work with. So in June of last year, I underwent the first stimulation. 14 eggs were retrieved, 12 were mature and 11 fertilised (with fresh sperm!! Not much, but enough for ICSI). 6 were cryogenically frozen on day 1. We transferred two eggs (I think they were both morulae) on day 5 - but BFN. So in July, we did a FET, thawed three eggs ... transferred a beginning blastocyst and a morula on day 5 ... BFN. In August, thawed our last three and transferred all three (I think we had two morulae and one with many cells) on day 5 ... BFN. So next round in September ... retrieved 11 eggs, 10 were mature and 7 fertilised (the fresh sperm wasn't enough, they thawed a straw). Two were frozen right up and two were transferred on day 5 (again a beginning blast and morula) ... BFN. In October another day 5 FET ... BFN. We changed doctors within the clinic and had the new appointment on November 30th. We did a few more tests on me - which showed nothing spectacular, everything normal. But the doctor's suspicion is that we not only have male infertility, but due to my age ... decreasing quality of eggs - because the embryos develop so slowly / poorly... So I started taking additional supplements and we planned to go for it after a three month break. The plan was to stim and take all fertilised eggs to day 5 (in an embryscope) - the doctor said, we want to get pregnant, not have just transfers ...
In February of this year we started stimming (and DH took Tamoxifen again for 6 weeks in the hope that the results would be as mind blowing as in spring 2011 and maybe we could do IMSI instead of pure ICSI - unfortunately, the results weren't good and they were able to use a fresh sample, but not enough for IMSI, only ICSI) ... at retrieval, the doctors were shocked, because they retrieved 23 eggs ... they didn't want to do a fresh transfer because of OHSS-risks. So, when 18 eggs were mature and 15 fertilised, they froze 10 on day one and took 5 to day 5 in the embryoscope. On day 6 we had two blasts which they froze. One of the two looked so beautiful, that I looked at the screen and thought "that's my baby" ...
The doctor also said that there had been some very positive results when doing a transfer a month after doing an endometrial biopsy. So in March, we did the biopsy in preparation for FET in April. ... The 10 day 1 frosties didn't develop that well, so when I went in for my transfer, the doctor said that he had also had one of the blasts thawed that day, and we were transferring three. I looked at the picture and thought "but that's not the pretty one" and said so - he looked in my file and told me, that I was right...
Anyway ... none of the three implanted ... another BFN.
May was a horrific month for me. My Mother was diagnosed at the beginning of the month with lung cancer which had metastasised to the liver - and she was looking at her options (she didn't want to do traditional treatment) ... My paternal Grandmother (who had been sick / dying for a while - I had flown over a couple of weeks before to say "goodbye") died on May 10th. On the 11th, I was at a memorial service for a school buddy, who had passed at the beginning of the year. Granny was buried on May 20th - and on the 22nd, my Stepfather rang that I should come to Budapest - my Mother had max. one month to live. I drove to Budapest on the 25th and started looking after her. Helping sit her up, stand her up, feed her, wash her etc. etc. Her deterioration was so rapid, it was unfathomable. 6 days I had with her. She died early afternoon on May 31st. I was holding her hand as she lost her "death fight". So we buried Mama on June 14th and on the 15th I came home.

... we decided to go for it in the following cycle, so I had another biopsy. The protocol my doctor put me on was a new one. ER was on July 30th - they retrieved 12 eggs, 10 were mature and only 4 fertilised. I went in for transfer on the 4th (two days before my birthday) with an open mind - our eggs never developed well, I did not dare hope. Usually, I was shown the picture of my embryos before clambering up for the transfer .. this time the doctor (not mine) didn't say anything, just got down to business, so I asked how they were. Turned out, we had two blastocysts - one was even expanding already. ... I promptly said "are you serious" - couldn't believe it. Went back to lie down after the transfer and actually cried a little ... Mama and Granny were looking out for us!
I felt very positive after the transfer and actually felt something! And soon, my boobs were so sore, I knew something good was going on (breasts always get sore in the luteal phase, but this soreness woke me during the night and I loved it!). First blood test 6dp5dt was low HCG but positive ... I was pregnant .... only just ... they weren't sure that implantation had been successful. In the meantime, the breasts weren't hurting as much, I wasn't waking up any more ... I knew that wasn't good. This was confirmed in the second blood test at 9dp5dt - HCG was still up, but going down. A third blood test three days later confirmed - it had been a chemical pregnancy.... and I was heartbroken! Could God really be so cruel, so as to take Granny and Mama in one month ... and then not let this happen?

So - that is where we are now. We have our next doctor's appointment on September 9th. We still have that one blastocyst frozen (the day 6 one). We finally had such perfect embies... (the doctor hadn't wanted to do a fresh transfer, because three days before the ER, my Progesterone was higher than he liked - but we discussed, mentally, I really wanted to go for it - due to my losses - and we hadn't exactly had a good track record with the thawed tries) ...

But I don't want to / can't give up yet. I believe it will work ... we were so close this time ... perhaps it was the trial run?

Oh - I am privately insured and DH is on state health insurance. Here (in Germany) the insurance of the "cause" has to cover. If I were the issue, my insurance would cover everything, all our costs. Because it is DH, they don't pay a cent and DH's insurance covers 50% of his costs (which is practically nothing) - so we are all out of pocket - so with three ICSIs and four FETs - not to mention the monitoring in between - we have paid a small fortune already.

And ... DEs are illegal here, so if we were to go down that route (I would do it - try first with DH's sperm, and if that doesn't work, we DE and donor sperm - but DH isn't too keen on that) we would have to look abroad. DH is coming round to the idea of adoption if all else fails - but there, I am getting old for a baby .... limit is pretty much 35 everywhere and I am 38 - there are exceptions, I have been told ... I don't know.

We are not giving up yet and Natural IVF sounds like a very interesting option, which I will discuss with our doctor in a couple of weeks! Thank you for the article!!

Oh - and the icing on the cake (for my emotional state) : my BIL got married in August last year. Towards the end of the year, they started trying (and even promptly went and got checked out due to our issues - he has quite a huge sperm count and everything perfect with her too). In February, we went out for dinner and she moaned to us about already being fed up with the trying and not having the nerve for it etc. etc. ... few weeks later (just a couple of days after she was out drinking and smoking) BIL rings to tell us that his wife is "a little bit pregnant". ... Irrationality here I come : completely heart-broken and starting to really resent her. Baby is due end of November. Oh and when hearing about my Mother dying from cancer - she says "I worry about my Mother getting sick too" and after our failed attempt in April "our friends ... a lesbian couple, where one has kept trying IUI - aren't being successful, so the other one is going to try now" ... I really was thinking, I don't give a crap right now. Almost could imagine the comment after hearing about our miscarriage "I was really afraid of that too". I know I am being spiteful and mean and hateful and resentful - I am so happy for all my friends, everyone on BNB too when I hear they are pregnant - my colleague, who got married last year - just told me last week that she is pregnant. I am thrilled for her (and she knows about our troubles) ... but my SIL - I don't know - just can't stand her right now.

So ... AQ ... thank you for starting this thread!! I hope it is OK if I would like to join. I really do also feel that even though there are others out there who have to do IVF / ICSI (and that is tough already in itself) - those who have success first or second try just do not get what it feels like to fail again and again and again and again and ....

to everyone on here!!

And one silly question - what is low AMH?

Bubu (Andrea)



 
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 12:10 PM   34
bugs
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Well Andrea I think you more than deserve to be a part of a thread. What a shocking journey you've been through. Hope we can all pull together and help each other through.

AMH is something they use to indicate how you'll respond to ivf drugs. If you have a low AMH they'll consider you a poor responder and some clinics in the UK won't treat you if it's below a certain level. It's only an indication and I've seen women with AMH's of 0 get pregnant so it's not something they know 100% about.

Well after my little bit of detective work the clinic emailed me my missing notes so I guess they weren't trying to hide anything but reading the Care forum they're not doing to well results wise lately so definitely think it's time to move clinics xxx



 
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 12:15 PM   35
africaqueen
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Welcome Bubumaci and thanks for sharing your story with us. Such a awful journey for us all on here but lets hope eventually the mantra 'good things come to those who wait' pays off for us Low AMH basically means low ovarian reserve so although i am only 32, i have serious egg decline and poor quality so time is not on my side either. I know we have option B with DE but i still hope an pray we manage to conceive with my own eggs. x

Hi to all the girls x

Cvaeh- Thinking of you lots and hope you enjoyed your wine x

AFM- I am having a shit day. Woke up feeling empty and depressed, then went the shops and dropped my new phone on the floor so now £70 to repair as i was insured which is my own stupid fault. I am feeling very emotional today and quite hopeless which i hate as most days i try to be positive but today isnt one of those days xxx



 
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 12:18 PM   36
africaqueen
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Bugs- Cross posts there. lol. Glad that the clinic were not trying to hide anything and it will soon be all systems go for you. Do you dread going again? i honestly do. I can cope with all the treatment but the 2ww nearly resulted in me losing my mind last time so if i am lucky enough to get that far again, god knows how i will cope emotionally. I may actually go away for the 2wks to spain or something xxx



 
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 12:23 PM   37
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I actually like the preparation part because it feels like I'm doing something and it takes my mind off what's happened in the past but ditto when it comes to the 2ww but after not getting one last time I'll be so relieved to be pupo.

I know what you mean about bad days, my work is just full of piss takers off sick coz they're pregnant they honestly don't know how lucky they are but they just milk it and it really winds me up !!!!



 
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 13:33 PM   38
bubumaci
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Ahhh - thank you girls for the warm welcome
And for the explanation! Guess low AMH is not something they found with me.

I am sorry you are having such a crappy day!! There are those nasty days, when you get up on the wrong side of the bed (so to speak) and you just feel as if you blunder from one thing into the next. I hope that your evening turns out to be pleasant And more than anything, that you do get pregnant with your own eggies!!

Just wondering whether either of you have thought about TCM - acupuncture to support and perhaps improve results? I know that a lot of our American "colleagues" on here do it and have had good results. I rang a clinic today that offers it and have an appointment in October... Just a thought?



 
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Old Aug 27th, 2013, 15:40 PM   39
bugs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubumaci View Post
Ahhh - thank you girls for the warm welcome
And for the explanation! Guess low AMH is not something they found with me.

I am sorry you are having such a crappy day!! There are those nasty days, when you get up on the wrong side of the bed (so to speak) and you just feel as if you blunder from one thing into the next. I hope that your evening turns out to be pleasant And more than anything, that you do get pregnant with your own eggies!!

Just wondering whether either of you have thought about TCM - acupuncture to support and perhaps improve results? I know that a lot of our American "colleagues" on here do it and have had good results. I rang a clinic today that offers it and have an appointment in October... Just a thought?
I tried acupuncture on our 1st cycle and to be fair we did get 2 pretty good embryo's to put back. But I didn't find it relaxing at all it could be quite uncomfortable although my accupuncturist specialised in fertility and so was a massive support for my 1st go xxx



 
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Old Aug 28th, 2013, 04:14 AM   40
MrsE75
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Hello ladies

I guess I qualify for this thread now as I've done 3 cycles plus a frozen. I already know the lovely AQ, bugs and cveah from another thread but here is my story for those i don't know.

It got married 3 yrs ago and we actually started trying about 3 months before our wedding cos we wanted to start right away due to me being 36 and with thyroid problem. Anyway after 6 months my thyroid doc said I should think about going to my GP for tests. My OH kept trying to delay so after 9 months we went. OH is fine, I however got told I have 0.00 amh level meaning they gave me a less than 5% chance of having my own children. So they wanted me on ivf straight away on LP. So less than 10 days letter I was having injection training. We got 4 eggs, all mature for ICSI due to my low egg numbers 3 fertilised. From that we got 1 blastocyst and 1 almost blastocyst put back. We got pregnant first time - everything was fine as far as I knew until we went for our 7 wk scan to see how many we had. There was a sac but no heartbeat told to wait a week and come back but looks like a miscarriage but they could only find 1 embryo so they were worried about ectopic. So went home, two day later I was having pain in should tip OH panicked and marched me off to hospital they kept me in over night. Next day they did bloods and I decided that without evidence I had an eptopic I was not having an op so went home but they booked me in for a scan a few days later. This scan the sac had grown and now we had a fetal pole so there was hope it was just a late developer. Another week and back for a scan this time the sac got small and I was about to miscarry any day. Next day at home I had a full miscarriage. Truly heartbroken and this most horrendous thing I've had to endure whilst no one around me understood that for the rest of my life I would always consider I had a child of my own it just didnt make it.

Did cycle 2 and only got 1 egg but didn't fertilise. Changed clinics and did immune tests all normal, had hysteroscopy and found I have a small uterus but otherwise it was fine. Fresh SP cycle in jan this year. We got 4 eggs again, all mature for ICSI and all 4 fertilised - result! However we got 2 blastocysts one was top grade and they were very hopeful the other prompted a debate about if it was worth freezing based on my few eggs we froze it and use it a couple of months ago but still BFN. I'm told that from outside my eggs look perfectly normal, they split in the correct times and we get great fertilisation.

At this stage I don't really know if my eggs are the problem and move to DE or if I just can't carry for some reason and we could try surrogacy. So now paying off last cycle, saving for next and then I will go an have consultations with other clinics cos i will do one more with my eggs then we need to know either way where the problem lies. However I know age is not on my side.

Thanks my story.

Looking forward to helping each other through this rocky road we are on! Xxx



 
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