I'm editing my original post to one that shares my experience and informs others about lip and tongue ties and how these may affect breastfeeding negatively. I don't think that enough women are aware of this problem and I wonder how many others are experiencing the same thing unknowingly!


I've discovered today that my 2.5 month old son has a pretty severe lip tie. After all this time I have encountered several problems with breastfeeding that have brought me close to the end, and I have tried twice previously to bottle feed him formula in desperation. What happened to me was: severe and ongoing nipple damage, particularly in one breast; excessive gulping in air that has progressively gotten worse; as a result of this an overly gassy and grumpy baby; problems with reoccurent mastitis and plugged ducts; disrupted sleep in LO. These are the major problems. I had suspected a lip tie early on and asked my HV for her opinion, and she told me that it isn't anything to worry about. But I know now that this has caused (what I suspect to be) ALL of my major breastfeeding woes when he took to a bottle today, with varying teat flows, as his upper lip was curled in and he was popping off the teat as he did on my breast and still managed to gulp in air. I looked up lip ties and hey presto - turns out no matter if you breast or bottle feed this problems will present themselves.

However it is more common for breastfeeding mothers to notice lip and tongue ties because it will affect pain while nursing and supply. Neither of which will be noticed in formula fed babies for obvious reasons.

The following list are all possible symptoms of a lip or tongue tie and I'll also post links to various websites for further information if you suspect your baby may have one of these (or even both!):

• Persistent very sore or damaged/blistered nipples – however it’s important to note that there may be no nipple pain/trauma
• Compressed nipples (change in shape) and/or blanching after feeding
• Excessive weight loss in baby*
• Slow or no weight gain in baby
• Excessive hunger/weight gain in baby
• Excessive sucking need – baby want’s to feed or suck very frequently/constantly.
• Baby only swallows infrequently or swallows well for initial “milk ejection” (letdown), but then swallows become less frequent/sporadic
• Cannot maintain a seal at the breast/bottle, often has gaps at corners of mouth which milk may spill out from.
• Mammoth feeds at the breast – or falls asleep quickly and then wakes hungry as soon as removed from the breast
• Very frequent feeds
• Fussing at the breast shortly into a feed or takes very short, fast feeds, baby may pull away from the breast and cry – bobbing on and off in distress.
• Parents may comment they can hear air being gulped, milk hitting the tummy, or baby is a very “noisy feeder” with loud swallow sounds.
• Low milk supply
• Mastitis/blocked ducts
• Gagging
• Reflux (click here to read “The cause of your baby’s colic, reflux & wind“)
• Frequent hiccoughs
• Colic
• Baby rarely/never settles to a deep restful sleep – some “catnap” and are described as very poor sleepers
• Windy/squirmy and unsettled when sleeping.
• Excessive flatulence
• Green stools
• Sucking blister on upper lip
• Latch trouble or slipping down the nipple when feeding ie as though struggling to remain attached at times- resulting in “nipple hanging”
• Clicking sound when feeding. May pop on and off.
• Unorganised suck/swallow pattern – may result in coughing/spluttering/gagging and give an appearance of oversupply. Bottlefeeding mums may note this happens even with the slowest flow teat
• Weak suck/poor sucking reflex
• Oral aversion/ increased sensitivity – frequently refuses breast and/or bottles and/or spoons. May gag frequently
• Tongue tremor
• Noisy breathing/snoring sounds when sleeping
• Opens mouth to attach but doesn’t, shakes head or bobs on and off before becoming frustrated
• Small mouth gape
• Unable to protrude tongue (some with tongue tie can)
• Excessive drooling/bubbles at the mouth
• Displays stressed body language when feeding – hands up near face, fingers splayed.

(Note: Obviously some of these problems will not always indicate a lip or tongue tie problem)

Here are some websites with information on tongue and lip ties:

http://www.tonguetie.net/index.php?o...task=view&id=2
http://kellymom.com/health/baby-heal...elp-tonguetie/
http://www.mommypotamus.com/how-to-d...-and-lip-ties/
http://theleakyboob.com/2012/11/the-...and-treatment/

If you suspect your baby has a lip or tongue tie ask your doctor to be referred to a pediatric dentist.

I'd like to make this thread a sticky if possible so that any women experiencing problems with breastfeeding can check it out just in case it may be the cause of all their woes! I wish I had known this information earlier because it would have saved me months of anguish, and had my boy taken a bottle I may not be breastfeeding anymore. Sad thought and it is even sadder to imagine this being a reason why more women quit breastfeeding!

How annoying for you! What makes me laugh is that the nhs is all pro bf, yet don't take things like this seriously even though it can really effect breastfeeding and cause some people to give up because of it. It's not like it's difficult to get sorted either.

Exactly. Apparently frenectomys were common before the formula feeding boom and they regularly snipped them on the NHS. They don't realize now that this does affect breastfeeding because they're no longer trained to spot them so more and more babies are having lip and tongue ties unchecked that affect them even through to adulthood. There's another thread in this forum about it. I'm having to go through my dentist to ask for a referral to a pediatric dentist, without support from my HV or my doctor because they don't think it's a problem. Well it is if it is affecting his feeding! I hate, hate, hate the NHS. It's like the lack of funding leads to a lack of compassion and understanding, and even training ffs.

I can't believe how often they seem to miss these. It really is disgraceful.

I hope the surgery helps and you are FINALLY problem-free!

lol thanks Seaweed you've seen all the posts from me so you know what it's been like! Seeing my GP tomorrow because I have to, to get a referral to a pediatric dentist. I didn't realize that I could get a referral without their agreeing to it being a problem or I would have asked for one when I was there last time! She just said "it's common and not a problem just keep persisting" without even considering referring me to a baby dentist. Makes me so mad I swear. This could have been solved a month ago.

Wondering if there should be a sticky about tongue and lip ties in this forum because there might be other women out there who are having similar problems and never get to the root of the problem like I have.

I wish I would have known about this problem when I was BFing my son. I am convinced he has an upper lip tie, but no one ever checked him. I gave up BFing when he was a week old because of many of the problems listed on that website. I am EPing, so he still gets breast milk, but I would have like the option to continue breast feeding!

I think a sticky is a great idea! I know Sproglet had an issue with this recently too. It seems like it makes such a difference. A girl in my baby group just had her daughter's tongue tie cut and she seems sooo relieved by how much easier it is to BF.

I am pretty sure our LO has a lip tie as well. I asked the lactation consultant about it in the hospital the morning after she was born and was also told it's normal. We have an LC coming here in a little while, so I plan to ask her about it.

We haven't had too many issues with latch or nipple pain since she was about 10 days old. She is however very gassy and more recent had been very frantic while nursing sometimes...latching, unlatching and crying etc.

Even if it's not affecting our breastfeeding, I worry about how this might affect her teeth coming in etc.

Good luck!!

Think my LO has it too, will try to get a pic soon.

she is very gassy, frantic noisy feeder and has poor weight gain x

Sorry to hear that BertieBones, I am noticing now that my LO's weight gain is becoming poorer. Of course it is normal for their weight gain to slow down but having weighed him twice in two weeks he has only gained 4 ounces :S And this coincides with him being fussier to feed at the breast, another bout of mastitis and gulping lots of air. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a correlation.