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Old May 25th, 2013, 11:58 AM   21
justkitty
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Where does it say it contributes to sids?



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Old May 25th, 2013, 13:14 PM   22
staralfur
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I agree with you for the most part, MommyJogger. I'm not sure about formula only being used as a medical necessity as I believe breastfeeing can truly make some women miserable and I'm not sure the sacrifice of the mother's mental well-being is totally worth it. But I'll openly say that I've NEVER understood the choice to not even try to breastfeed.

I think it was patch who said something about if the baby could tell you which they'd choose, which do you think they'd prefer? And I completely agree. I think it's worth giving it a shot, even if you're not ecstatic about it, if for no other reason than that.



 
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Old May 25th, 2013, 13:54 PM   23
flamingpanda
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Originally Posted by MommyJogger View Post
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People shouldn't have to go through hardships to earn the right to use formula. For some people it just works better for their family. People should be free to make a choice, not have one rammed down their throats - from either side!
I'm about to become super unpopular, but I really hate any arguments about the "right" to choose formula. When does the baby get a say in the decision that usually affects them more than anyone else? Infants shouldn't have to go through hardships (increased risk of SIDS, constipation, higher risk of obesity, stomach upset, etc) just because some parents perceive it as being more convenient. I can understand debate about rights during pregnancy, but I will never understand how it could ever be argued that a mother's rights will trump her baby's after the birth. Formula should not be a right. When used, it should be a medical necessity.
Well then I'm about to becomes super, triple, mega unpopular because frankly a world in which we chain mothers up and force them to breastfeed isn't a world I want to be a part of, what a grim place! Women up against insurmountable depression don't make good mummies. If you lose sight of that you've lost the overall battle to increase BFing numbers. "Breast is best" isn't working for lots of women. New mothers need more support - people to listen to them and help them. Not control and judge them. BFing take up numbers are good, then it all goes wrong. Why? The evil formula companies? If you think that then you've missed the chance to help.



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Old May 25th, 2013, 14:14 PM   24
flamingpanda
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Also just on the point about babies having the right to choose...

We have to make choices for our families, that's a big part of being a mum. I had to make the decision to put Hadley to bed a little early tonight. She was over tired from a busy day yesterday and I know when she's sleepy. She didn't like this. If you had been able to ask her she's have told you she would like to stay up and bounce on my knee some more. Is that her right because she's unhappy with my choice? Of course not, she's a baby. A good mum's decision on how to feed her baby is not taken lightly, she considers everything and everybody within her family unit.

Also I would like to add, I was formula fed. Not something I knew until I was sat in tears with a baby who just didn't want my milk. My mum told me we all were. Do I feel it was my right to have her milk? No. Do I care? Not really, no. My mother loves me dearly and she is more to me than milk, she's love and understanding. She's mum! I'm sure I'm about to keel over at any moment but it won't stop me loving her!

I support BFing 100%, I would love to see an increase in support for it. But I think campaigns need to get real and stop making it out to be all unicorns and fairy dust. I think more one on one support is needed in hospitals AND at home. I think more people need to listen.



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Old May 25th, 2013, 14:15 PM   25
tinytabby
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This is the bf forum though.



 
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Old May 25th, 2013, 15:34 PM   26
patch2006uk
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Originally Posted by staralfur View Post
I agree with you for the most part, MommyJogger. I'm not sure about formula only being used as a medical necessity as I believe breastfeeing can truly make some women miserable and I'm not sure the sacrifice of the mother's mental well-being is totally worth it. But I'll openly say that I've NEVER understood the choice to not even try to breastfeed.

I think it was patch who said something about if the baby could tell you which they'd choose, which do you think they'd prefer? And I completely agree. I think it's worth giving it a shot, even if you're not ecstatic about it, if for no other reason than that.
That was indeed me

The ad in the OP is horrifying. Such subtly manipulative language. That a few here can't see the problem is indicative of how clever it is. It's not blatant. It's not in your face. It just plants a seed of doubt, to allow your imagination to do the rest. Fabulous advertising, really. I imagine the execs who came up with it are very pleased. Just a shame their talents aren't being put to better use.



 
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Old May 25th, 2013, 15:36 PM   27
MommyJogger
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"chain mothers up and force them to breastfeed"?? wtf? I think at least the majority of pregnancies are planned. No one chained anyone up and forced them to have children. Breastfeeding is part of having a child-- it's how you feed them. No one would ever stand up for a woman's "right" to leave a child in a 2x4 play yard all day; why can't that be construed as "chaining a mother up and forcing her to take care of her child"? New mothers need access to cold, hard facts. Not placations about how formula is "fine".
As for babies and choosing, the difference between the scenarios is that in the milk scenario, you're forcing the poorer choice onto your child when they would choose the healthier choice. In the sleep scenario, you're making the better choice for your child. No one would support forcing a child to eat McDonald's and a coke if they'd instead eat the veggie stew and a water that are also available.



 
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Old May 25th, 2013, 15:38 PM   28
tinytabby
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I have combi fed since LO was 6 months. I do buy formula and I have no problem with it in itself...

BUT I hate the way it's marketed. I hate the way you can't buy one that doesn't claim to be 'breast milk substitute.' They make it sound like formula and bm are interchangeable and they are not. There is no actual substitute for bm!

The original ad is just an example of this. I hate it, it makes me sick.



 
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Old May 25th, 2013, 15:42 PM   29
patch2006uk
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Originally Posted by justkitty View Post
Where does it say it contributes to sids?
7. Breast-feed babies whenever possible. Breast milk decreases the occurrence of respiratory and gastrointestinal infections. Studies show that breast-fed babies have a lower SIDS rate than formula-fed babies do.
http://www.sids.org/nprevent.htm (american site)

and

Crude ORs from 19 individual studies favored breastfeeding as protective against SIDS. The combined analysis indicated that bottle-fed infants were twice as likely to die from SIDS (pooled OR = 2.11; 95% CI 1.66-2.68). The results of the analysis show that there is an association between bottle-feeding and SIDS, but this may be related to confounding variables.
http://www.unicef.org.uk/BabyFriendl...and-cot-death/ (international body)



 
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Old May 25th, 2013, 15:47 PM   30
patch2006uk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingpanda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyJogger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingpanda View Post
People shouldn't have to go through hardships to earn the right to use formula. For some people it just works better for their family. People should be free to make a choice, not have one rammed down their throats - from either side!
I'm about to become super unpopular, but I really hate any arguments about the "right" to choose formula. When does the baby get a say in the decision that usually affects them more than anyone else? Infants shouldn't have to go through hardships (increased risk of SIDS, constipation, higher risk of obesity, stomach upset, etc) just because some parents perceive it as being more convenient. I can understand debate about rights during pregnancy, but I will never understand how it could ever be argued that a mother's rights will trump her baby's after the birth. Formula should not be a right. When used, it should be a medical necessity.
Well then I'm about to becomes super, triple, mega unpopular because frankly a world in which we chain mothers up and force them to breastfeed isn't a world I want to be a part of, what a grim place! Women up against insurmountable depression don't make good mummies. If you lose sight of that you've lost the overall battle to increase BFing numbers. "Breast is best" isn't working for lots of women. New mothers need more support - people to listen to them and help them. Not control and judge them. BFing take up numbers are good, then it all goes wrong. Why? The evil formula companies? If you think that then you've missed the chance to help.
I agree that it's the woman's body and obviously she has the ultimate choice, but there is an argument I think for there at least being an expectation that you will BF for the first few hours (assuming no medical issue that would prevent it, although encouragement to express colostrum if possible would only help an already sick baby). Colostrum really is a wonder stuff, and I believe every baby does deserve to get those first shots of, basically, their immune system.

I've said before, I think a message of 'every feed counts' rather than 'breast is best' would be much more positive. And the NHS putting its money where its mouth is and actually employing (or training) staff to be able to help.

Formula companies preying on the insecurities of women already BFing is a low tactic, but I agree that if the information was out there in the first place, people would see it for the covert manipulation it really is.



 
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