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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 10:22 AM   31
vintage67
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You are not helping.

You may think you are helping.

You are not.

There are those of us that had "support", "knowledge", "lactation consultants","dual electric pumps," "fenugreek", etc., and were UNABLE to BF our children.

That was me first pregnancy.

This time, a lengthy hospitalization, 3 CT scans and drugs I could not expose a newborn to.

No one cares about a study when they are dealing with depression and guilt over not being able to breastfeed their child.

This is the formula feeding forum. We don't come here to be lectured about breastfeeding.

I do not mean to sound harsh. I drove to the river in the city I live in 7 years ago and contemplated driving my car into it over not being able to breastfeed my son. Women on the internet tipped me into suicidal thoughts.
On a so-called breastfeeding support website, the forums were full of such sage advice as "formula causes cancer", "it's rat poison in a can", "your child will be sickly, get cancer and have a low IQ", and such statements as, "I could never be friends with a "bottle feeder." I was shunned in real life by
breastfeeding mothers. I BOTTLE FED in public restrooms because I was afraid of beign accosted.

Breastfeeding pressure is intense, and though well meaning, I am not the only woman who has experienced this. I know that therapists see a lot of women who have to be counseled over this. I had to get counseling.

I thought the formula feeding forum was "safe," but I don't think I'll be back in here anymore either.



 
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 12:35 PM   32
summer rain
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I was merely rebutting common BF myths about iron and BF mums getting less sleep.

No-one is 'lecturing' about BF but it does seem on this forum it is fine to peddle myths about BF and if anyone responds with scientific evidence (even if it has been asked for!), even those who have either had to or chose to FF in the past such as myself and Midori (and I had to FF one of my kids for medical reasons so I am afraid you don't know my history) they are shot down in flames and accused of pressuring women and calling formula poison! No-one called formula anything on this thread let alone poison; just said if OP really wants to BF then she can do so safely despite the misinformation given to her by a medical professional, which is what it is.

All I and Midori did was post evidence that the myth that all babies sleep better with formula and BF is more tiring in the early days and also that low iron makes for less good quality milk; is not true, mainly in response to such evidence being asked for. Perhaps I should have PMed the studies to those who asked for them. There are many false statements made about BF on here and baby club and I ignore 99.9% of them as to be honest I don't want women who gave up based on false information to feel bad for something that isn't their fault not to mention all the nasty posts that we get for merely responding to a QUESTION. FF ladies do not get this when they come into the BF section and post on threads there. I don't see how this is lecturing on BF merely responding to another poster asking for something-could you please explain how it is? BTW I have actually lost many friends and am pretty much blanked by my entire OHs family for BF and I've been told by medical professionals that I am starving/killing my kids for BF in the past-even though they were perfectly healthy-for example I was told to top up with formula with my youngest even though he was gaining 10oz+ a week- because I surely didn't want to starve/dehydrate him, the paediatrician believed that a BF baby could never be healthy. Not to mention having nasty remarks and looks when NIP. So I'm afraid the pressure works BOTH ways.

I have also had to seek counselling because of bad experiences with my eldest and some of that did revolve around him being given formula against my wishes and even against hospital policy. You don't know me and you have NO idea about me or my kids or how my feeding experiences have been; most posters on this section will tell you I give very helpful advice on both BF AND FF if they have been on this forum for a bit longer than yourself-with all due respect but in future I will think twice before posting on this section again. I have already had to severely curtail posting in the weaning section because I merely posted the government guidelines on weaning age and how to safely give solids and boy was I made to feel I was doing something terribly wrong.

Finally edited to add: I have several friends who successfully BF with extremely low iron levels (one of them due to a form of anaemia she was born with and consequently could never get her iron levels above a 6 or 7) but I won't share their stories here because I will be accused of all sorts-however OP if you want to hear them you can feel free to PM me.



 
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 14:23 PM   33
oblada18
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I think it is important that people make informed decision as much as possible; better find out now and make a proper decision than find it out later, when it is too late and dealing with even more guilt and regret!
Everybody should make a decision about bf or ff based on (as much as possible) true facts and on how they feel. Yes pressure may be harsh sometimes (both ways and it varies with time and place I am afraid) but women have to learn to deal with it, there is no two ways about it, life is not always easy but surely it is easier to deal with the pressure if the woman truly knows why she has made the decision she reached and that is really what we should all aim for, for our sake's and our children's sake.

Personally I think bf is very tiring physically (it uses up a lot of energy) but I think I would find ff much more draining mentally and emotionally as I find it so much easier to settle my girl with the breast, I get very little crying as there is barely any waiting time, I sleep pretty well due to bf and co-sleeping (I do NOT do well with sleep deprivation!)...

Anyway to get back to the point don't beat yourself up if you feel that is the right decision, there is good formula out there and there is so much you will do for your baby in the years to come, this is just about feeding in the first few months, there is a lot more to come and to enjoy with your child



 
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 17:28 PM   34
midori1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage67 View Post
You are not helping.

You may think you are helping.

You are not.

There are those of us that had "support", "knowledge", "lactation consultants","dual electric pumps," "fenugreek", etc., and were UNABLE to BF our children.

That was me first pregnancy.

This time, a lengthy hospitalization, 3 CT scans and drugs I could not expose a newborn to.

No one cares about a study when they are dealing with depression and guilt over not being able to breastfeed their child.

This is the formula feeding forum. We don't come here to be lectured about breastfeeding.

I do not mean to sound harsh. I drove to the river in the city I live in 7 years ago and contemplated driving my car into it over not being able to breastfeed my son. Women on the internet tipped me into suicidal thoughts.
On a so-called breastfeeding support website, the forums were full of such sage advice as "formula causes cancer", "it's rat poison in a can", "your child will be sickly, get cancer and have a low IQ", and such statements as, "I could never be friends with a "bottle feeder." I was shunned in real life by
breastfeeding mothers. I BOTTLE FED in public restrooms because I was afraid of beign accosted.

Breastfeeding pressure is intense, and though well meaning, I am not the only woman who has experienced this. I know that therapists see a lot of women who have to be counseled over this. I had to get counseling.

I thought the formula feeding forum was "safe," but I don't think I'll be back in here anymore either.
I am sorry to hear about your experiences, that sounds incredibly difficult for you and it is absolutely awful that you were made to feel that way.

However, it is completely possible to be pro BF without being anti FF, they are not the same thing. I don't think anyone here has 'lectured' on BF?

As to whether the advice is/may be helping... Had the OP come on and said 'I am not BF' after her baby had been born, as opposed to saying 'I have decided not to', prior to her baby being born, as she has done, then yes, I'd agree. It is not helpful in the least to tell a woman information she has been given that suggests she shouldn't BF is wrong once she has already had her baby and not BF. However, for all we know, the OP may well want to BF if gets the correct information about and surely it's better for her to have the correct information now than once BF is no longer an option?

Of course, regardless of having the correct information, the OP may still wish to FF and if she does, I seriously doubt anyone here is going to berate her for that, it is her choice entirely.

FWIW, I didn't continue to BF three of my children due to incorrect information and lack of support and I wish to goodness someone had given me the right information beforehand. (I have also had PND and ended up hospitalised because of it, so that isn't something I take lightly either)



 
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 17:39 PM   35
vintage67
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Summer Rain, it is a complete and TOTAL FALSEHOOD THAT i CAME INTO THE BF SECTION AND SAID THAT! Here is the entire post that you are talking about. NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT SHE WOULD HAVE TO SWITCH TO FORMULA.

*With my first son, I had GD and I was very shocked at how bad his blood sugars were after birth. My case is on the extreme side, but it CAN happen.
My blood sugars were not that bad really, but the week before his birth, they did spike. When my son was born, his blood sugars were very low. He sank all the way to an 18; for a point of reference, a baby should be around 40, and can go into a coma at 15. Colostrum was not going to bring a baby up from 18 to a normal range.

With my second baby, (I am now a Type 2 diabetic) he had blood sugar issues as well, though not as severe.

You can cup or syringe feed to bring blood sugars up in an infant. It is very scary when their lips are trembling and they are near a coma. Supplemental feeding is life saving in those instances.

As far as GD/diabetes, I did have problems with breastfeeding, which I won't go into here. Diabetic women do often have issues breastfeeding. Lactation consultants that have a lot of experience with diabetic mothers will confirm this. Impossible? No, but each individual situation is different.

Your baby may or may not have blood sugar issues after birth. There is a lot of variance. Since they know you have GD, they will monitor him. Sad seeing the little bandage on the heel from the pokes, but it is necessary*



 
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 18:21 PM   36
kaths101
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Hi Girls, Im sorry I got some of my facts wrong, about low iron affecting the milk etc..I shouldnt type what I dont know about - its just what I thought. I apologise

Breastfeeding doesn't hurt me now but it was very painful in the beginning and I almost gave up! I also found it very very tiring, Jack fed every hour to 2 hours and no-one else could help, he would eat little and often and would sick up a lot too. He also had colic and it was sooo draining, I couldnt even go and lay down for a few hours and let OH look after Jack because he was on the boob all the time!
Just how I felt!!



 
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 18:50 PM   37
bananabump
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I hated BF, worst decision I ever made to even try it. SOOO glad I'm FF now! I'm sorry your MIL is putting you down, I think the pros to FF much outweigh the pros to BF and so do a lot of other women too! And do you know now if any of your friends/family were BF or FF? I know I don't and that's because it reeeeally doesn't matter either way! Chin up and please don't let your MIL or any other stupid people upset you x x x



 
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 18:52 PM   38
midori1999
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I honestly think the only way I'd find BF tiring is if I was doing it on a treadmill... Or, maybe if I didn't have the support of my wonderful husband. For me, breastfeeding went like this:

Me: lay in bed/sit in bed/sit on the sofa, eating chocolate, watching box set DVDs, eating chocolate, chat to friends/family, eat chocolate, and feed the baby. Eat some more chocolate...

Husband: wind baby after feeds, change nappies, cuddle baby in between feeds so I could sleep, make dinner, amuse the other (3) children, bring me snacks, bring me drinks, do housework, walk and care for our dogs... etc etc

Ok, so maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but it wasn't much different than that. I quickly learnt to feed laying down too, so I could rest/nap whilst feeding. So yes, not BF might mean you spend less time feeding the baby, but it probably means you'll spend a lot of time doing other things that are tiring. I mean, housework?!

Of course, everyone is different and I am not in any way discounting any else's personal experience, but I am really very seriously lazy and I always take the easy option.

Studies have shown on average a BF Mother gets around 20 mins extra sleep a night, that's quite a lot extra when you're exhausted!



 
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 19:08 PM   39
summer rain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage67 View Post
Summer Rain, it is a complete and TOTAL FALSEHOOD THAT i CAME INTO THE BF SECTION AND SAID THAT! Here is the entire post that you are talking about. NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT SHE WOULD HAVE TO SWITCH TO FORMULA.

*With my first son, I had GD and I was very shocked at how bad his blood sugars were after birth. My case is on the extreme side, but it CAN happen.
My blood sugars were not that bad really, but the week before his birth, they did spike. When my son was born, his blood sugars were very low. He sank all the way to an 18; for a point of reference, a baby should be around 40, and can go into a coma at 15. Colostrum was not going to bring a baby up from 18 to a normal range.

With my second baby, (I am now a Type 2 diabetic) he had blood sugar issues as well, though not as severe.

You can cup or syringe feed to bring blood sugars up in an infant. It is very scary when their lips are trembling and they are near a coma. Supplemental feeding is life saving in those instances.

As far as GD/diabetes, I did have problems with breastfeeding, which I won't go into here. Diabetic women do often have issues breastfeeding. Lactation consultants that have a lot of experience with diabetic mothers will confirm this. Impossible? No, but each individual situation is different.

Your baby may or may not have blood sugar issues after birth. There is a lot of variance. Since they know you have GD, they will monitor him. Sad seeing the little bandage on the heel from the pokes, but it is necessary*
I am sorry I misread your original post just quoted and I hold my hands up, I made a genuine mistake. However you have said a lot of harsh, nasty and unjust things here that you have not apologised for nor have you explained how offering correct information on BF is 'pressuring' or 'lecturing on BF'?



 
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Old Jan 6th, 2012, 19:25 PM   40
summer rain
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I have just been looking into iron deficiency anaemia and whether it is safe to BF with iron-deficiency anaemia because I had to be sure what I was saying is correct and backed up by evidence, the consensus seems to be that in many cases BF can help to level out low iron levels and help them to recover somewhat because most BF women do not have periods for several months after the birth and those that FF tend to have their period return in the first two months-the iron that is given over to milk production and comes through in milk is less than what is lost from bleeding through periods

http://www.llli.org/nb/nbjulaug01p124.html

Its in the physiologic effects of breastfeeding bit. xx



 
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