Hey jimmy. I m so so sorry things arent improving. There is not much i can say other than what all the other ladies have said. And that the story kate posted might not necessarily make you super happy but it could give you some hope. Maybe it wont go over 40? But even if it does there are still very good chances the amnio will do its trick. Is there something you can do to keep it from increasing? Sorry if i sound completely ignorant but i m just trying to think a positive way out.anyway please keep writing to us all, the weeks will go by and 26 is not so far away, with the steroids your baby will have a very good chance even at 26 weeks if need be. Hugs xx

Hi JJ, what a shocker of a day for you, you sound so downbeat after repeated knocks. Please bear in mind that whilst Doctors are amazing at medical intervention, they can also seem like harbingers of doom when a bump appears in the road. I think it's an innate reaction for Doctors to see and prepare you for the worst case scenario first, almost as a preservation tactic.

So to the reality, a stitch can hold up under the weight of a twin pregnancy (Lizzie and her "chunks"). That is a fact. You are a few weeks post-shirodkhar, therefore if the stitch were to fail it would have happened by now. A shirodkhar is the strongest type of vaginal stitch you can have. I'm also assuming that you had antibiotics after the stitch, which most likely means that infection is unlikely to be an issue for you at the moment too.

So, the stitch is doing it's job, after you were given stats of a 70% success rate. My doc was extremely pessimistic about my stitch working, quoting stats of 70% chance of carrying to full-term. At that point full term was a dream that happened to someone else, not me, so I tried not to dwell on it. However this was difficult, as my early posts on page 8-ish show, I felt that there was no hope. My doc struggled to give guidance when she wasn't dealing in absolutes, she refused to give me what might potentially be false hope.

So the polyhydramnios is proving to be an issue due to the weight, is there a reason they can see that's causing it, or is it just "one of those things" for you? Intervention, as you said, carries a 10% risk of complications, that's 90% chance of not causing complications. They would not offer or carry out this procedure if the risk outweighed the benefits. If the stitch can work for you, at a lower success rate, as it appears to be, then amniocentesis can also work. I know of 2 ladies who've had amnios done and they were harmless.

This is a nightmare for you, it's knocking your confidence, your body and your ability to stay positive in the face of these constant knocks. Please lean on us, your hubby and your family. Let them know how you feel, don't feel guilty about feeling scared, but do keep those stats at the back of your mind. The hopelessness that these complications bring are utterly isolating, you are entitled to shut yourself away a little if it helps you to cope, but you are not alone, please remember that xxxxx

Make it brief.

Girls thanks - all of you. I'm rock bottom.

From what limited info I can find online polyhydramnios is uncommon anyway & rare at this gestational age. The earlier it presents & the greater the levels of fluid, the greater the likelihood of chromosomal & congenital abnormalities. I know nothing anout this area & I'm scared shitless.

I'm dealing with the stitch, which carries its own risks, really high excess amniotic fluid & the prospect of fetal abnormalities. And I can't find anyone with this condition at my stage to share with.

I feel lonely & desperate, like my miracle dream after all these years of pain is slipping away.

You're all being so amazing, thank you, I'd reply in person to each of you but I'm struggling to hold it together.

It's all a big shock today. I need to get some sleep & dig deep to find my strength again.

If any of you know of any threads I can look at plse post.

Thanks.

JimmyJam xx

Hi Jimmy

I am so sorry you didn't get better news today, or that at least things had remained stable for you. As Kate already said, all may still be well in the end, but at this point it is impossible to know that, you have been told the odds are firmly stacked against you, and for that reason alone, the situation must feel unbearable. I am so sorry for you and dh that you are being put through this agonising wait

Ok, now for my thoughts on this situation. I've done some readin around polyhydramnios (but admittedly there's limited information about it), and Whilst its true that the condition puts you as officially high risk, in reality it isn't bleak hun. If a baby appears sonographically sound, then it usually is and it is not necessarily fetal issues which are causing the excess fluid. In these and most cases, the cause is unknown and can be managed by monitoring, and in more severe cases amnio reduction (which you referred to). The impression I get is that this is a relatively rare occurrence, but not unheard of, and once identified not catastrophic.

I understand you have the added worry of IC. Whilst this does cause more concern among your docs, I can promise that it is still absolutely possible to carry this excess weight on a weak cervix that has a stitch.

An incompetent cervix opens less due to weight of the foetus, and more because of stretching, and it is this that is thought to increase pressure on the cervix and force it to open. Although you are ahead in weeks due to the fluid, a woman's uterus can tolerate potentially 24/26Ibs of baby/amniotic fluid/placentas as I proved with the twins, without triggering PROM, labour or tearing through a stitch. Even a woman carrying one, hefty baby can manage 16Ibs in total before the uterine stretching triggers labour.

At 22wks, the average baby is 1Ib, the placenta 2Ibs and water 2Ibs. Yours is more , but you are still only sustaining the weight and pressure of a woman with still several more weeks to go before her body can no longer manage. You have much more 'give' in your body yet hun, despite how alarmist the doctors may seem.

If the onset of labour were due to something as simple as excess stretching and weight, then every woman carrying twins or large babies would deliver them by 28wks. The risks for those women are greater, but very few are in fact delivered before the average twin gestation of 34wks. The causes of labour are not fully understood, but it is a complex process which requires several factors to be in place. I can vouch for the fact that uterine girth, weight and stretching are definitely not one of them. My uterus was so over -distended, that it would not have gone into labour by itself because it was paper thin by 38wks, completely atonal and knackered - it still held, as did the stitch.

These are not just words JJ. You are too intelligent, and in too much despair for me to be offering false platitudes hun ( something I hope I never do on here). I have sat in a room with a Consultant, who has looked me square in the eye and told me he thought he had done us wrong by effectively saving a 'dead baby' in our beloved Evie! He meant well, but along with every other expert in the hospital, feared that she wouldn't make it, and if she did would have a catalogue of health issues which would make her life intolerable. They were wrong!!!

If I had given in to the feelings, advice and prognosis by every single professional on the night of her birth, we would have let her go there and then. These people are experts, they do know the statistics (and they are pirely that) but their primary role is to give you the absolute worst case scenarios - and they never fail to deliver.

When I discovered I was expecting twins, I was met with abject doom and gloom. It was felt that My cervix would never be able to manage a twin pregnancy, and like you I was told outright that an IC couldn't support a uterus that would be consistently several weeks ahead of gestation. To give you some perspective, my uterus measured 54wks gestation at 28wks.

Twins are hugely difficult to get to term, fraught with complications, and usually deliver early as a result. That's before you throw IC into the mix. Your condition is a problem, but not much more of a problem than carrying twins. In your predicament, you would have been fed the same bleak prospect if you had been pregnant with twins, as you have because of the excess fluid. The difference is that twins are not strictly considered a 'complication' of pregnancy - a subtle yet massive psychological difference of perception for you and your Doctors.

Just as with the polyhydramnios twins are thought to increase the risk of PROM, PTL and stitch failure (some docs won't even contemplate a stitch with twins because they are born prem for so many other reasons that it is thought pointless! - they are wrong!). These are theoretical risks only tho hun, and in reality are still very small.

Hard as it is, try to imagine yourself with a stitch, but a few weeks ahead in gestation - from a cervical pressure perspective. This is your position, no worse, no better. Your cervix is reinforced and holding - and the stitch can take several months worth more pressure if necessary. It hasn't changed significantly ina week, but your fluid has risen and the strain increased. If it continues in this way then it proves it can remain more or less the same despite the ebb and flow of amniotic fluid.

I am not an expert, nor are there guarantees in any pregnancy, particularly one with complications. However, I strongly feel that this isn't over for you JJ. You have been given worst case scenario, which is necessary and typical of medics who are duty bound to offer you every possible negative outcome. In reality, the unpredictability of pregnancy and your condition ironically also gives you immense scope, because no one can say for definite that this will not work out ok, and that you won't take home your full termer in a few months time. Measure for measure, I have seen many more healthy babies born of far more complex pregnancies with dire prosepcts than not - my beautiful daughter being one of them.

They have fgiven you this arbitrary figure of 10% infection risk because of the stitch!? Is this based on sound medical research? Or is it simply theoretical? I can't imagine there are many women in your position to have confirmed this figure. It is interesting that many doctors still point blank refuse to place elective stitches because they fear their potential for causing infection, when in reality they don't and the risk is minuscule.

I am not an expert, and there may be many more unknowns that further cloud this issue for you JJ, BUT I do know that polyhydramnios is not a lost cause, and can be fixed. I also know that a stitch can more than hold its own against the weight you are carrying now and 10 wks from now. I understand that the waters could 'go at any minute', but I'm not sure how much of an actual risk this is? Is the pressure of 35cms of water now with a smaller baby any greater than th pressure at 32wks with a larger baby and normal fluid levels? The membrane is actually quite tough, and again PROM is a far more complex issue than just increased pressure.

I am sorry that I and the others cannot offer more than words hun, but I do hope amidst all the panic and fear, that you can take some comfort in them and perhaps see that at least some of it makes sense, and that the picture isn't necessarily so bleak

PS - sorry JJ, after posting just wanted to edit and add that I feel my post is grossly inadequate, and might seem overly confident on your behalf, when I have no right to be! I suppose I deal with fear by going immediately into 'info mode', reassuring myself with facts, figures and clinical research - its my way, but is not for everyone and probably seems insensitive to your cause. Please understand, I am not and feel desperately sorry for you, totally helpless, and trying to help in the best way I know how. I know very little about your condition, but still stand by what I say, though I don't want to appear flippant or unduly 'brave'. Hope that makes sense xxx

Jimmyjam hun,am all choked up as am typing this post. I so wish I could say or do something other than having you in my prayers and routing(sp) for you to keep fighting. Please hung in there and don't give up yet! (I know easier said than done) we are all here for you and we will see you through this tough journey hun.

Kateqpr "I know an amniocentisis is not ideal, but that is still a 90% success rate, which is good, plus will hopefully buy you more time for your baby to grow. A good few friends of mine have had them and all been fine, so try and trust that the procedure, although scary, will really help you. Plus 26 weeks gestation, although early, can still have a good survival rate. There was a girl on this thread (Amy) who had her baby at 26 weeks just before Christmas. Her little girl is still going strong in the hospital, and showing good signs of making a full recovery, so don't think that your baby coming early is the end of the world. With steroids, and your doctor's aware of your situation, there is every chance your baby will be okay." That was well said hun and also thanks for the encouraging words.

Christiana hun, I also had a low lying placenta @ my 14w scan but it has since moved as the pregnancy progressed.

Book.fish, am so sorry for all the problems your having with your lady bits but have you tried the oral tablet for your thrush? as it seemed to have done wonders for me when the cream was useless. I know they say they don't recommend in pregnancy/early pregnancy but my doc prescribed it for me as a one off in the second tri (check with them!) its called fluconazole.

Okay, day 2 for me in hospital and I have been experiencing some weird sensation, pulling/pressure, mild lower back ache and its starting to make me paranoid.
Ive also had my 1st dose of steroids and a drug called nifedipine to calm my uterus down which am pleased about plus the consultant will be scanning me again in the morning (hope its good news and the funneling is not as bad as I think).
Am having trouble sleeping due to being admitted on labor ward with loads of screaming ladies and babies who have just been born. Its really tough going and I feel so tearful and emotional (HORMONES!!).

Lizzie, how are you hun? helengee, and live1980, hope you all well..

Ps; 2 more sleeps to v day yikes!!!

Wow! Lizzie, well said hun.....SPEECHLESS!!

JJ, how are you today? I have been thinking about you a lot.

How are the other girls?

Olga & Christiana & Kate & LR, how are things progressing with you?

Well I don't have very good news from my end today. The nurse telephoned me in the morning to tell me I have yet another UTI and must do a course of abtibiotics. This will be the third course since past 4 weeks. How can it even be possible that am susceptible to this continuous string of infection. Not to mention, my girls bits are still sore and painful and yeast infection continues. It seems like am walking around with two bulbs attached down there. ( multiple abscess)

I google for multiple infections and I bump across million stories with 2 trim losses. It's all quite depressing.

Can you all lovely ladies tell me if you've seen anyone on this thread with cerclage and infections like me, and who went on to have a successful pregnancy?

Dear Lizzie, with all your xperience here, can you think of someone who has really been through this and managed to birth the babies successfully?

Hi bbok.fish, so sorry about the infections hun....Please do take the antibiotics asap especially now that you have a stitch in. I don't want to scare monger you but my experience with infections was not very good in my last pregnancy.....my consultant has been very active in treating me with antibiotics prophetically from 8w, 12w 16w 22w and now @ 24w.
And plse do try and keep away frm Dr. goggle. at least your lucky they've caught the infections in time before they do any damage hun....good luck and keep us updated.

Hi Olga, am sorry about your last pregnancy. Am sorry I didnt have a chance to go through your posts. Of you don't mind can you tell me if you has infections then, and if they caused the problem? Only if you don't mind.

How are you doing otherwise today? What are the doctors saying? Can you feel your bubba's kicks?

My h went to the hospital to collect my new antibiotic pills, he also had a word with my high risk OB about my worries on infection affecting babies. OB told him that pills won't affect the babies but need to take them to avoid kidney stones. She assured him nothing will happen to cerclage or babies. I just hope she's right. There's nothing more I can do, apart from taking antibiotics and drinking water , correct?

Hi BF - no one is totally sure about infection and ptl, and it is kind of a 'chicken and egg' scenario. Does infection trigger labour and open the cervix, or does an already dilated cervix allow infection into the uterus and then trigger labour. It is now thought however, that infection is generally only a risk after the cervix has opened. In my case, I had already dilated to 3cms with my daughter, an emergency stitch was placed but by then labour had set in only because my cervix had lain open for several hours.

In the twin pregnancy I had a confirmed BV infection at 21wks which had probably gone undetected for several weeks. It caused no problems at all, as is the case for most pregnant ladies - lots of women have the bacteria but are none the wiser because they aren't screened like us.

The reason you keep getting infection is because your immune system is lower in pregnancy, and the pressure of the babies on your bladder and urether allow bugs to breed more readily. Leaving a UTI untreated is dangerous in pregnancy mainly because it can spread rapidly and cause a kidney infection, which can in rare cases trigger labour. Lots and lots of women have UTis in pregnancy and the majority recover and go to term hun. There is no reason why the stitch should increase the risks or make the effects of a UTI any worse.

The vagina contains millions of bacteriahun, it is by no means a sterile environment. So long as you have some closed cervix, it would be unusual for the bacteria to make it any further than your mucus plug or stitch. It is only if and when that barrier is lost is there a risk. The soreness and bulging you are feeling are typical of thrush, an infection which is again, common in pregnancy and rarely (if at all) affects the baby.

Women here with IC who have previously lost their babies due to infection have usually had their IC go undetected until their cervix has already opened and infection got in. Sadly they are unaware of this until they experience the mild cramping and back ache of very early labour - often triggered by the infection and/or dilation.

This is a terrifying time for you sweet, and there are no words which will ultimately reassure, but please try not worry about these infections. It is extremely unlikely that they will trigger ptl in you as long as your cervix and stitch are intact. As I recall Kate had lots of UTIs and bleeding from 20 to 30wks but nothing ever came of them stitch-wise. I'm sure she'll be along to share her story with you soon hun.

Hope that helps xxx