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Old May 1st, 2017, 10:06 AM   31
loeylo
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I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.

I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.

Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?



 
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Old May 1st, 2017, 10:16 AM   32
catty
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For us my partners wage and the smp (580pm) is enough for us and i know exactly what you mean about the 'your so lucky' mummy duck because i get that too. But then i think well no we drive 1 car, have a low mortgage, dont do holidays often and if we do we save for ages (like years)
I often buy the kids 2nd hand clothes and we dont eat out much. Im sure if people had to they could too but my friend who has 2 cars and a holiday to America i get the 'your so lucky'
Im in nursing and i feel the same it been 8 years since i graduated now so i have to go on a retraining course which is about 6 mo ths and after that it says there is work so i plan to do that in a few years when my youngest is at nursery but otherwise its very difficult.



 
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Old May 1st, 2017, 10:52 AM   33
loeylo
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For us my partners wage and the smp (580pm) is enough for us and i know exactly what you mean about the 'your so lucky' mummy duck because i get that too. But then i think well no we drive 1 car, have a low mortgage, dont do holidays often and if we do we save for ages (like years)
I often buy the kids 2nd hand clothes and we dont eat out much. Im sure if people had to they could too but my friend who has 2 cars and a holiday to America i get the 'your so lucky'
Im in nursing and i feel the same it been 8 years since i graduated now so i have to go on a retraining course which is about 6 mo ths and after that it says there is work so i plan to do that in a few years when my youngest is at nursery but otherwise its very difficult.
I get the "you're so lucky" too because apparently we must be well off because we have a car, own our own home and both have jobs. Our house is a two/three bed ex local authority (admittedly in a nice area) which we got at a brilliant price, our car is a 58 plate and falling apart. We haven't been on a proper family holiday yet, although we do have money for days out and we eat out as a family once per week.

It really does work both ways. People imagine two income households to be loaded, when in reality we aren't - there are not many short term benefits, the main thing that we can do is pay our mortgage off quicker (we will be mortgage free by 35 at this rate) - yet my non working friends always ask me to go on expensive play dates at the weekend, which I can't do because 1. I can't afford it and 2. Weekends are family time.

Both options have sacrifices but for us it isn't a choice as due to my partners illness he can't work full time hours (he did work full time when I was pregnant, the original plan was that we would both drop one day per week but he had to drop 2.5 so I couldn't drop any)



 
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Old May 1st, 2017, 11:36 AM   34
catty
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I really agree it works both ways! My friend who works around 24 hours per week actually makes less than i do working 15 hours or on smp (i get the same either way really) because she has childcare to pay. Its swings and roundabouts really. i really just dont think there is an 'easy' way.
On my fb account i have honestly about 25 people selling things - toothpaste, coffee, diet products, branded make up and toiletries and saying how you should join and have it all just like them. I just want to laugh, i know someone who works for one of the companies hes very high up and gets around 800pm so the people on the bottom are not making all that much and make it look amazing. Anyway im going off topic but i keep getting fb messages from certain ones i feel im a bit of a target to them since i have kids.



 
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Old May 1st, 2017, 11:46 AM   35
loeylo
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I really agree it works both ways! My friend who works around 24 hours per week actually makes less than i do working 15 hours or on smp (i get the same either way really) because she has childcare to pay. Its swings and roundabouts really. i really just dont think there is an 'easy' way.
On my fb account i have honestly about 25 people selling things - toothpaste, coffee, diet products, branded make up and toiletries and saying how you should join and have it all judt like them. I just want to laugh, i know someone who works for one of the companies hes very high up and gets around 800pm so the people on the bottom are not making all that much and make it look amazing. Anyway im going off topic but i keep getting fb messages from certain ones i feel im a bit of a target to them since i have kids.
As I said my partner is part time, he wanted to work 3 days but he would be 50 per MONTH better off than working 2.5 days. He has a reasonably well paid job so I can totally understand why many families make the choice to have one parent working part time or not at all.

With regards to my comments about sexism, he gets quite a lot of stick for having to take time off work for her appointments and things (he uses holidays or swaps his days working) as he is asked why I can't go instead - it's assumed that just because I'm the mother I should be the one going, when he is actually our daughters main caregiver.



 
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Old May 3rd, 2017, 11:28 AM   36
Wobbles
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I'm totally jealous that you're a sahm - i would love to be! I honestly think times need to change so that every family has the opportunity for one parent to be able to stay at home if they want to
Its not me personally - I share the articles for discussion.

x



 
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Old May 3rd, 2017, 13:07 PM   37
CRWx
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This was such an interesting debate to read! I think there's always going to be people from both a working POV and a SAHM POV that feel as though they're being judged (etc) for whichever choice, someone always has something to say!

I'm a full time student and my daughter is in nursery 4 days a week, I don't fit the SAHM criteria nor the working mum criteria- I'm inbetween! I get the 'oh you're so lucky' comments as well as the pity, lol. It's a choice that works for us but I still get the mummy guilt whether that be due to working too much or not enough

The way I look at it is that everyone's so completely different, how can we have a big sweeping view on either sides? Whatever works for you- whether that's working, staying at home or looking after your kids whilst upside down, on a pogo stick.



 
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Old May 3rd, 2017, 14:29 PM   38
fxmummyduck
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Originally Posted by loeylo View Post
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Originally Posted by fxmummyduck View Post
I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.

I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.

Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?
I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.

To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.



 
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Old May 3rd, 2017, 16:31 PM   39
loeylo
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Originally Posted by fxmummyduck View Post
I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.

I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.

Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?
I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.

To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.
Ah right, I'm in Scotland so it is different here, I can work pretty much anywhere in the world with my qualification. It's very hard to make money marking exam papers, I think we get roughly 5 per paper!



 
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Old May 3rd, 2017, 17:36 PM   40
fxmummyduck
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Originally Posted by fxmummyduck View Post
I definitely feel like I'm seen as a lower class of person for staying at home with my son. And by other women, it's not often that men make me feel like that. When I'm out and people talk to me I often get polite answers to the 'what do you do?' But the raised eyebrows or the fake smile give their true feelings away, alongside the 'you're so lucky' comments. Luck has nothing to do with it, we've both made sacrifices. I hadn't really established my career when I fell pregnant, I was a newly qualified teacher and instead of going into a job I stayed home and will have given up any chance at a career, after so many years out and more if we have another child I will pretty much be unemployable with no experience under my belt. Luckily I love being at home with my son but that sometimes doesn't make up for the feelings of failure, wasted education and nothing of my own/achievement to be proud of. I have days where I feel pretty dark about it, feel like the black sheep of the family, like I've wasted my potential and let my parents and in-laws down. I don't think people realize how much you give up to stay at home with children, I'm a mum and a wife and I've given up my own identity to be there, so yes, I would appreciate being valued for what I do, not just looked down on with a 'you're so lucky' smirk that implies I don't really do anything and how easy I've got it. No it's not hard but I have still paid a price to be here. Unfortunately society doesn't value the stay at home mum, and ideas and success are based on career titles and money. It's the first thing anyone asks you 'what do you do?' until attitudes starts to change and the role of mothers are seen as important in society we will always be made to feel guilty for the decision we've made.

I would like to say I respect whatever mums decide to do, work full time/part time, whatever I don't care, all I ask is that they respect what I do and more often than not I don't feel like that is the case, I just feel looked down on.
I do think the teaching profession is really not family friendly, on the surface it looks great (to outsiders who just see the relatively okay salary and the holidays) but especially for NQTs it is near enough impossible to get full registration without working full time. You also miss out on pretty much all school events as you can't take any extra holidays, so if my kid has a show on or any event during the school day I will miss it. I did fall pregnant and would have been due just before the start of my probation year but we lost the baby. While I wouldn't have given up my career (I'm the main earner plus we have lots of family to help) I would have had to completely defer starting my job for at least a year. In that time I would have only got SMP which is nowhere near enough to live on (480 a month I think? Impossible with a mortgage and a car to pay!) - it's also so hard to get a job even when you are fully qualified.

Isn't it possible to defer your probation year until your LO starts school?
I think my QTS status runs out after 5 years which was already up last year when we had to move to the USA for dhs job. My qualifications don't count for anything here and legally I'm not allowed to work on a spouse visa so for the time being I have no choice! My only other thought if we get to move back to the U.K was that with my level of education I could work for the exam board marking papers from home (I think) just to do a little bit of paid work.

To the other ladies who have commented we also have the one car we share and we rent at the moment (abroad) but have a smallish mortgage on a flat we rent out back home which covers itself thankfully.
Ah right, I'm in Scotland so it is different here, I can work pretty much anywhere in the world with my qualification. It's very hard to make money marking exam papers, I think we get roughly 5 per paper!
How's that? Sorry just curious as I did my PGCE in the U.K but i wouldn't be able to teach here in the US? What qualification do you get in Scotland?



 
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