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Old Sep 24th, 2016, 09:55 AM   1
LacePrincess
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Fifth loss in a row (the worst sequel in the world)


It's confirmed now that we will be having our fifth loss in a row.

I had my followup scan yesterday, at 8w. Embryo measured 6w2d with a hb of only 48.

And now I have to wait for the heartbeat to fade away. We've had a lot of losses, but we've never had to wait out a dying heartbeat before, and it just feels so much harder. That there WAS a life, still is a little life, but it's not going to make it.

The good news is that I o'ed from my right, which is the side I have a blocked tube on, so clearly I can get preggo from my right ovary (my dominant ovary) despite the blocked tube.

This pregnancy was pretty classic aneuploid. Slow hcg off the bat, behind on every scan, slow heartbeat. So, some kind of trisomy. At least it looks like it shouldn't be an underlying immune or other chronic disorder with me that's causing the losses.

However, the question remains - why so many aneuploids in a row? DH and I are both 37, not super old. I suspect sperm issues are the main culprit, but there's really no fix for that. We're still waiting for our karyotyping results and I'm really eager to get those and see if maybe we've had a karyotype issue all along that is biting us in the butt now.

In the meantime, the hubby isn't dealing with this very well. He's frustrated and feeling helpless, and as a guy he just can't accept that he can't fix it. Plus I'm sure there's guilt there that it's his side of things that's the problem.

I'm just sad that there's a little dying bean inside, and I have such mixed feelings about that. I want my body to pass things quickly, but then I feel guilty hoping for the little bean to pass quick too. And I just don't understand why it's never our turn, and why this keeps happening to us.



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Old Sep 24th, 2016, 16:12 PM   2
Sweetkat
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I am so sorry you are going through this.

I have to say we are mirror images of each other (except that I am too scared to get pregnant after the 3rd MMC).

My second loss was the same. Behind on every scan, very slow hb around 7 weeks, also no hope and was told large yolk sack and chromosomal.

Nothing has been diagnosed for me or OH (we paid thousands for private tests and also had them on the national health (NHS) (the ones we could - same tests just to double check).

But OH's fragmentation is 44%. It basically means there is a 35% chance of miscarriage instead of the usual 20% at our age (I am now 36).

My OH is taking anti oxidants and off the medication causing the fragmentation and I am not trying unless fragmentation down or with donor sperm. Weirdly though our last loss was due to Down syndrome which apparrently has nothing to do with fragmentation. So yours too could be random bad luck and fragmentation combined.

Big hugs, I hated the fact baby was alive and yet wouldn't make it with second loss and yet the physical process was like a heavy period and had a period 4 weeks later.

Big big hugs



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Old Sep 24th, 2016, 20:15 PM   3
LacePrincess
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Thanks so much Sweetkat. It sucks. I'm so sorry you went through this too.

Well I'm pretty crampy today, and when I checked internally in the shower there was a tiny bit of blood streaked ewcm this morning, so hopefully this means my body is starting to m/c on its own. It would be nice not to have to use Cytotec or worse have to have a d&c.

I have such mixed feelings though, about being glad it feels like the m/c is starting. I mean there's relief that it shouldn't drag on and on but also guilt because that means the bean has died.

Otherwise, I had a good day. I went to ballet class, and it was great not having to think about this at all. I'm glad I went. I'm also not feeling too sad, at least not yet. But I was extremely detached and expecting another loss all the way with this one, I just presume every bfp I get will end badly. I'm kind of cynical now. :P

We're still waiting for our karyotyping results, I'll followup on Monday. I wish we could get a DNA frag test done because I'm really quite sure it's a sperm DNA problem, but they don't have that test at my clinic.



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Old Sep 25th, 2016, 01:20 AM   4
Sweetkat
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It's awful to have to go through it, but what makes me feel a bit better is that with my last two losses, they couldn't and wouldn't have made it to full term (because of chromosomal issues). With the first one I have no idea. So at least it's not like my body is rejecting healthy babies

But of course I desperately want a healthy baby. I think about it almost every minute of every day. OH is going to have another fragmentation test in 3 weeks and then we will see if there is any change.

The NHS (state system here) also doesn't do these tests and said oh it might not matter. It's like hello, every research paper says it leads to poor embryo quality. I had a scan of the womb last week and asked the Dr at state clinic all these questions and she said I don't know. But at the private clinic I was told it raises risk of miscarriage from 20% to 35%. That Dr (who works in a fertility/ assisted reproduction clinic) also told me that all of his couples with DNA fragmentation went on to have babies and only 2 used donor sperm.



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Old Sep 25th, 2016, 08:10 AM   5
LacePrincess
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Sweetkat, that's true. It would be worse if my body was rejecting healthy embryos. So I am glad that I'm pretty sure now it's not me, it's the embryos.

OTOH, why the F*^&$*% are we making so damned many aneuploids?!?!? WTF!

The timing is curious. I always seem to lose them at EXACTLY the same point, with the exception of the chemicals. Otherwise it's been, 6w, 6w3d, mmc measuring 6w3d, and this one measured 6w2d. Almost to the day they stop growing at 4.7mm or so. So what the heck is going on at that point of development that my embies never seem to be able to make it past?

I found this rather interesting article about how sperm damage causes miscarriage. Not a lot of suggestions on what to do, but it makes sense!!


https://www.tommys.org/miscarriage-r...rm-miscarriage

Oh it does give me hope what your dr said, that even with DNA frag eventually it's possible to have a healthy baby, just.....how many losses will it take to get there, yk?



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Old Sep 25th, 2016, 11:39 AM   6
LacePrincess
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Oh this is a good article too:

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/8/1959.long

Basically it says what I've always thought......that RPL can be due to implanting aneuploid embies when the body really should be rejecting them.

Which means - maybe the Femara was making me uselessly super fertile after all. So next step for us - going unmedicated again and seeing if my body will figure out what to do.



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Old Sep 25th, 2016, 14:18 PM   7
ReadynWaiting
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Lace- first off I'm so sorry you are going through this again. I hate that anyone has to experience this bullshit. I feel like you are literally telling my story! Last year we would get pg just looking at each other but never made it past 7 weeks. We saw 2 with a hb but they never developed past 7 weeks. Hb was always a little low. The other 4 losses were chemicals. The 2 MMC I held inside for 5-6 weeks as my body wouldn't recognize they had passed. Our tests came back normal, sperm was fine!
In all of my reading the only thing that I can think might be an issue is high inflammation or high nk cells. I doubt it's either but I don't know what else it could be an no one else seems to know. Here in Canada we aren't as advanced or willing to recognize issues that they do in the UK and Australia. It's so freakin frustrating! I want to think of something else and focus on something different. I feel stuck and angry and I'm tired of it! We are approaching 3 years of ttc this baby and I've just had enough. There are girls on the rmc thread that have had over 10 losses to finally get their rainbow. I don't know if I can keep having more but I so desperately want another baby.
I get the complete disconnect as it's happened the last 4 losses! I don't want to hope because it causes to much pain when it doesn't work out. My heart goes out to you and I hope you can have that rainbow.



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Old Sep 25th, 2016, 14:31 PM   8
Sweetkat
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At the private clinic I was diagnosed with elevated NK cells. State system doesn't believe in them.

But here is the big but, I asked if NK cells lead to chromosomal issues and was told no. And my last two losses were chromosomal. So NK cells didn't cause the losses but could have contributed to them... Well I don't know if I believe in a NK cells but am prepared to take steroids. Yet those NK cells don't explain the last two losses.



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Old Sep 25th, 2016, 14:38 PM   9
ReadynWaiting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LacePrincess View Post
Oh this is a good article too:

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/8/1959.long

Basically it says what I've always thought......that RPL can be due to implanting aneuploid embies when the body really should be rejecting them.

Which means - maybe the Femara was making me uselessly super fertile after all. So next step for us - going unmedicated again and seeing if my body will figure out what to do.
This is a good article.



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Old Sep 25th, 2016, 22:14 PM   10
LacePrincess
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Ready - thanks so much. This is one helluva craptastic shared experience, but I am glad not to be alone. I'm so sorry for all of yours too, no one should have to deal with this bullcrap.

I don't think mine are NK cells either, as we have had kids without issues. And mine seem textbook aneuploid so it's a chromosome issue. Actually my latest one is pretty classic Trisomy 16 or 18.

I am willing to keep trying (and losing) to get my rainbow, but I really hope it doesn't take double digits!!! I'm just SICK of losing all this time every loss. Like if they're aneuploid, why can't my stupid body just reject them? Why implant, hang on for 8 weeks, if it's never meant to be? By the time I get the m/c over with and wait for the hcg to drop enough to ovulate again, I could've had had 3 regular attempts. I just get so angry at the passage of time.

Today my body isn't doing anything. Barely crampy, no spotting, just pissing me off.

Well we are backing off a bit, we're going to take till the end of the year off with no meds or supplements and just trying on our own and seeing what happens. Then we'll re-evaluate after that, but probably I'll go for the IVF after that.

Oh and I don't let myself hope. EVER. It's too damned hard when it fails again. Except this time there was a hb, and that's a first for us with the losses, and that makes it harder since there was a life in there and it lived even if only for a very tiny little bit. It wasn't 'just' an embryo that never lived, yk? It's harder this time.



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