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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 17:27 PM   21
Andromida
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@danijoanne

Its not a tangent at all its actually very helpful and informative and I appreciate the support and even more-so the acknowledgement of how difficult it is! Even without the worry about my husband etc not everyone can afford to lose the thousands of dollars already spent on each of the trips (which would also add to the guilt).

As you said I think a lot of it has to do with drug companies not wanting to deal with repercussions, and I think also the inability to do research (self report bias alone can cause problems in studies done after pregnancy as well as other factors they may not look at and its not like they can test it with an outright control and test group as it would obviously be inhumane) My doctor friend outright said to me "I honestly think no one really knows what makes a healthy baby and what hurts them, its all guess work and it changes every other day".

I am considering trying acupuncture as my friend here found a good one but she is at the midwives clinic Ill start at when I see my doctor the first time, so its another thing that can't be discussed before I fly again. I also wanted to try hypnotherapy but my inability to find a good psychiatrist or psychologist here has hindered that. Id LOVE to get off the drugs and thats what people don't get. I don't use them to get high or to feel good, I use them to stop the debilitating fear. My US doctor was able to get me off my daily meds and my sleep meds (I still have insomnia but I always have but the nightmares are not as bad or frequent) but the flying issue just wont go away.

and thank you for simply just understanding and not judging me for even considering taking the meds. I was a psych major (though focused on animal behavior) and I know how much of a stigma still exists over mental health issues and just how much people don't understand and its been a really hard journey.



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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 17:29 PM   22
Dobsd
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I'm going through the same thing at the moment. I'm flying to Sydney, Australia in two weeks time (I'll be 6 weeks pregnant). It is only a 3 hour flight but I am terrified of flying. I have panic attacks on takeoff and landing and just don't relax the entire time. And I don't mean just small, heart racing panic attacks... They are disabling. I can't see, breathe or hear anything. I throw up, cry, shake. I usually take Diazepam and Propanolol which sometimes take the edge off a bit but now I can't and I'm terrified. I don't want to cancel because I am going for a friends hen weekend and I'd hate not to be there. Just don't know what to do!



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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 17:44 PM   23
Andromida
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@loeylo

I honestly believe people forget to place importance on their relationship with their SO too much once kids are involved and its something my husband and I promised we wouldn't do. Children are important. My babies health is one of the most important things to me. So is my marriage.

I don't think he would outright resent me, I think it would start unconsciously. People don't ever really know how they'd react to a given situation until they are in it and its hard not to feel certain ways. For example I moved to Europe and gave up my career for my husbands (though it was in most ways my choice. As it would be his staying with me rather then going to the weddings alone). I didn't think I'd resent him for it, but especially when things aren't going the best I do. We've spent a lot of time working through those feelings of resentment I kept hidden for almost 6 months before I figured out why I was so angry at the dumbest things my husband did. I think its harsh for you to say Id be better off without him for something people do unconsciously all the time. Its very easy to say when you aren't in the situation, and again, there has been no real studies of any substance I can find saying benzos cause birth defects since the 1970s, so it may be hard for him to accept that there is any real risk. (Its always harder for the man when hes not carrying the child)

As far as travel issues alone, I dont have any flights booked after 22 weeks I believe so that part wont be an issue. I agree with my anxiety I would probably not receive approval (nor should I!) since such stress could easily cause premature labor.

As far as living with myself if the baby had any problems and I did take the meds? I have no idea, again no one knows what they'd do in a given situation, and as you said, would there be any evidence it was the meds? But also would I ever forgive myself if this lead to a rift between my husband and I. Or if I don't take the meds and I miscarry and it could have been the anxiety? Or if I just don't go because Im afraid of something I know is COMPLETELY irrational and I lose THOUSANDS of dollars could I even look at myself in the mirror? Pregnancy has way to many unknowns and they are all terrifying.

As far as stress not having any effect on the baby just because yours was healthy, I could argue there are many drug addicts who delivered healthy babies and even in the 1970 study that claims benzos cause birth defects only .7% had a birth defect. that means 99.3% of the babies were healthy. My mom smoked through all of her 3 pregnancies because her doctor told her quitting would be worse then continuing to smoke, yet she had 3 healthy pregnancies with 8lb or greater birth weights even though smoking is supposed to cause low birth weights.

It also doesn't sound like you know much about PTSD and the stressed caused by it. This isnt just something that causes normal stress. I named the outright things Im afraid of but not the causes of them.



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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 17:49 PM   24
Andromida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobsd View Post
I'm going through the same thing at the moment. I'm flying to Sydney, Australia in two weeks time (I'll be 6 weeks pregnant). It is only a 3 hour flight but I am terrified of flying. I have panic attacks on takeoff and landing and just don't relax the entire time. And I don't mean just small, heart racing panic attacks... They are disabling. I can't see, breathe or hear anything. I throw up, cry, shake. I usually take Diazepam and Propanolol which sometimes take the edge off a bit but now I can't and I'm terrified. I don't want to cancel because I am going for a friends hen weekend and I'd hate not to be there. Just don't know what to do!
Thats how bad I usually am. Sobbing in my seat, nauseated, tense and in pain the entire time (to add to it I have 2 herniated discs in my back and the tense muscles make them act up too), heart racing and pounding, and it literally feels like my blood is ice flowing in my veins. I also have to sit in the window seat to look out the window and "make sure the plane isnt crashing" (yes I know how stupid that sounds) and with me being pregnant and having to pee every 10 minutes as well as my anxiety making me have to pee every 10 minutes should make the person in the isle seat SOOO happy to be in my row.

I wish there was a quick easy answer for both of us other then "risk it or dont go"

If you talk to your doctor at all before hand about the diazapam please let me know what they say and Ill do the same if I can move my appointment!



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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 17:57 PM   25
Andromida
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Please anyone else read the note on the bottom of my first post before replying. Im shocked at the lack of understanding and lack of compassion being shown by many. I didn't post here to be lectured on my decisions or my priorities or my life or judged. I came here to ask advice from people who may have gone through what I am, and if anything else maybe for some compassion and understanding. Some people in this thread have left me feeling on the defensive and nearly in tears. Living with PTSD is hard. Its painful. Its miserable. Its something I work on every day. Flying is whats hardest for me right now. This isnt normal "stress" its not a normal situation.

If you wish to "lecture" and can back it up with outright scientific studies that are from 1990 or newer feel free to do it in my inbox. If you are simply here to tell me its awful cause you read it on google or your doctor told you so don't bother.



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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 18:05 PM   26
bananaz
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It's not just an issue of drug companies wanting to avoid liability; the medical and scientific community no longer tolerates the kinds of experimental studies that would be needed to clearly establish the safety of drugs during pregnancy.

The drugs that we are able to tentatively label as "safe" during pregnancy either have empirical data to back them up because they were developed before widespread implementation of legal and ethical constraints on research, or they have a large amount of consistently reassuring evidence from lower level studies (e.g. cohort, case control, etc) to support their safety. Most medications, however, don't meet either of those criteria, and while there may not be any strong evidence that they are harmful during pregnancy, it remains to be demonstrated that they aren't harmful. So I think it's pretty reasonable to feel hesitant about advocating for their use.



 
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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 18:10 PM   27
bananaz
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All of that aside, an abstract fear of "something" happening to the embryo/fetus isn't sufficient cause for stopping a medication that is critical for the woman's ability to function. Mom's health is obviously very important for a successful pregnancy and unchecked anxiety, especially in someone with PTSD, can have bad outcomes for everyone involved, including baby. Based on my own education and training I do think that benzos should be avoided, especially during first tri, but that doesn't mean you have to just stay home and incubate for 9 months. There are other pharmacological and non-pharmacological interventions to explore (Benadryl and mindfulness training are my two personal favorites, and I think they've both been mentioned at this point)



 
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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 18:11 PM   28
Andromida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaz View Post
It's not just an issue of drug companies wanting to avoid liability; the medical and scientific community no longer tolerates the kinds of experimental studies that would be needed to clearly establish the safety of drugs during pregnancy.

The drugs that we are able to tentatively label as "safe" during pregnancy either have empirical data to back them up because they were developed before widespread implementation of legal and ethical constraints on research, or they have a large amount of consistently reassuring evidence from lower level studies (e.g. cohort, case control, etc) to support their safety. Most medications, however, don't meet either of those criteria, and while there may not be any strong evidence that they are harmful during pregnancy, it remains to be demonstrated that they aren't harmful. So I think it's pretty reasonable to feel hesitant about advocating for their use.
Yup I mentioned that also. I know most drugs can't actually be tested as well as they would like due to ethical reasons. And yes its exactly what you said, while there isn't any good evidence they ARE harmful there also isn't enough they ARENT and is it worth the risk of hurting my baby. Again thank you so much just for understanding. I was really almost crying several times replying to some of the people here, so the people who responded meaningfully and with understanding and some compassion made it worth asking the question.

As far as alternatives I have been looking into them as well. They will obviously be my outright last resort. I do have a self hypnosis video that has helped me deal with some of the preflight anxiety. Ill probably try and listen to that every night prior to the trip and hope it has some effect.



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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 18:21 PM   29
Starlight32
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I was on klonopin before I knew I was pregnant. I stopped as soon as I found out though (thankfully I was weaning already so the dose was low enough to stop cold turkey). It was hard but being on it would have made me more anxious about worrying about my baby. I stopped at 17 dpo.



 
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Old Mar 9th, 2016, 18:29 PM   30
Andromida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlight32 View Post
I was on klonopin before I knew I was pregnant. I stopped as soon as I found out though (thankfully I was weaning already so the dose was low enough to stop cold turkey). It was hard but being on it would have made me more anxious about worrying about my baby. I stopped at 17 dpo.
Its good you were weaning and were able to stop. I've heard withdrawl from benzos is rough. I luckily never had to take them daily, just for panic attacks at first now just for flying. I understand the worrying part thats my entire problem :/ but I also don't know how detrimental a full blown panic attack and break down on a plane would be.



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