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Old May 16th, 2016, 05:40 AM   11
Sweetkat
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Originally Posted by CaliDreaming View Post
Sweetkat,
I'm so sorry about your miscarriages. I hope that this pregnancy is a healthy one.

As for supplements that can help for morphology, poor morphology is thought to be caused by oxidative damage, so antioxidants may help in addition to lifestyle changes like avoiding hot baths, cycling, etc.

However, in reading your post I think we are talking about apples and oranges. In a sperm analysis, the point of the testing is to determine whether the sperm has the ability to make it to the egg and fertilize it. Sperm is nothing but a sack of the man's genetic material, so once it has deposited the man's dna in the egg, its job is done.

Morphology is only significant as a way of determining if the sperm is shaped appropriately so that it can swim fast and straight or to ensure that the head of the sperm is shaped such that it is able to penetrate the egg. Morphology says nothing about the state of the DNA contained inside of the sperm. If the sperm is able to get to the egg and fertilize it, it does not matter what the morphology is or how pretty they look under the microscope.

IVF with ICSI is often recommended for couple's where the sperm's morphology is thought to be rendering the sperm unable to fertilize the egg. That procedure is where they manually inject an egg with a sperm and then the pregnancy proceeds normally from there.

In your case, your husband's sperm is strong enough easily able to travel to and fertilize your eggs, so the standard measures of sperm are pretty irrelevant at this point.

In the past, it was thought that the man's sperm had nothing to do with any subsequent miscarriages, but new research suggests that it might, but nothing conclusive has been found. However, in those studies, a special test was used to evaluate the DNA inside of the man's sperm and not the usual sperm analysis. The tests that your hubby would need would measure the level of dna fragmentation in his sperm. Antioxidants are thought to reduce the level of dna fragmentation, but if they don't, IVF with IMSI is recommended. In IVF/IMSI, they analyze the sperm under a microscope and then select the sperm with the least amount of DNA fragmentation to inject into the egg.


I understand that they tend to wait until after the third miscarriage to do any genetic testing. It might be that one or both of you has something going on with your genes, but that's probably not the case since you have a healthy daughter. Or maybe the medication is causing a significant amount of fragmentation, but my understanding is that when there's a high amount of dna fragmentation, the miscarriages occur at a very early stage.

In your case, I think it's probably jumping a little ahead to worry about your hubby's sperm. In the vast majority of cases, recurrent miscarriage is due to an issue either with the egg or the conditions in the woman's body affecting the development of the egg, even for women who have had healthy children. The research into the role the husband's sperm plays is still in its infant stages and the issue is hotly debated.

Whatever the case, my heart goes out to you and I hope this pregnancy makes it. I hope that what I've written here does not offend you in any way. I've never had a miscarriage and can't imagine how painful they must be.
Thank you for your reply. I am not offended at all, your post is really helpful.

My Oh is on methotrexate which ironically they prescribe to women for ectopic. He is on a really small dose, however until recently the advice was not to get pregnant for 6 months until after stopping the medication. Now the advice is 3 months. However my OH's Dr said that it should cause no issues and safe to get pregnant on it.

I am 35 and have got pregnant 4 times very easily. I have no known health issues and have regular periods, had a us of my uterus and all fine, but of course I am not ruling out that sth could be wrong with me.

OH is late 40s and is on the medication. As the SA showed low morphology and there is a link with DNA fragmentation I thought that could be the cause but of course could be sth else.

With the first MMC he actually gave up the medicine for 3 months but started taking it again as his condition got worse and had been taking it for a month when I got pregnant. The baby stopped growing at 8&3 days.

The second MC was early on as it was 8 at 8 weeks but the baby only ever measured 4-5 weeks.

Anyway, I have no idea what's caused it and I hope is all ok this time.




 
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Old May 16th, 2016, 13:04 PM   12
WishnandHopn
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Sweetkat, so sorry to hear about your losses. I wish you all the best with this pregnancy! Methotrexate does affect the DNA and can cause genetic mutations, so maybe that is more likely to be the problem rather than the sperm morphology itself? 6-7% morphology lies somewhere between the 10th and 25th percentile for fertile men according to the WHO's reference range. It could be that the abnormal sperm morphology is not severe enough to prevent fertilization, but some kind of genetic mutation could cause the embryo not to develop normally. I am just speculating. I wonder if there is an alternative to methotrexate that your husband could use to treat his condition that is less toxic to DNA?

Calidreaming, thanks for the advice on supplements. My husband has started taking pycnogenol (50 mg), L-arginine (1 g) and something called FertilPro which contains similar ingredients to FertilAid (L-carnitine, folic acid, zinc, selenium, vit C, E and B12). Fingers crossed that this helps his numbers!

My day 3 hormone results came back normal. My FSH was 6, which is good for my age (below 6 is excellent). It doesn't really tell me anything except that I am not suffering from premature ovarian failure.



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Old May 16th, 2016, 15:50 PM   13
CaliDreaming
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Originally Posted by Sweetkat View Post

Thank you for your reply. I am not offended at all, your post is really helpful.

My Oh is on methotrexate which ironically they prescribe to women for ectopic. He is on a really small dose, however until recently the advice was not to get pregnant for 6 months until after stopping the medication. Now the advice is 3 months. However my OH's Dr said that it should cause no issues and safe to get pregnant on it.

I am 35 and have got pregnant 4 times very easily. I have no known health issues and have regular periods, had a us of my uterus and all fine, but of course I am not ruling out that sth could be wrong with me.

OH is late 40s and is on the medication. As the SA showed low morphology and there is a link with DNA fragmentation I thought that could be the cause but of course could be sth else.

With the first MMC he actually gave up the medicine for 3 months but started taking it again as his condition got worse and had been taking it for a month when I got pregnant. The baby stopped growing at 8&3 days.

The second MC was early on as it was 8 at 8 weeks but the baby only ever measured 4-5 weeks.

Anyway, I have no idea what's caused it and I hope is all ok this time.

Yes, since you've had a healthy pregnancy in the past, you definitely have good reason to have high hopes for this little bean, in spite of the MMCs. I'll be sending all of the good vibes and baby dust I can your way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WishnandHopn View Post
Sweetkat, so sorry to hear about your losses. I wish you all the best with this pregnancy! Methotrexate does affect the DNA and can cause genetic mutations, so maybe that is more likely to be the problem rather than the sperm morphology itself? 6-7% morphology lies somewhere between the 10th and 25th percentile for fertile men according to the WHO's reference range. It could be that the abnormal sperm morphology is not severe enough to prevent fertilization, but some kind of genetic mutation could cause the embryo not to develop normally. I am just speculating. I wonder if there is an alternative to methotrexate that your husband could use to treat his condition that is less toxic to DNA?

Calidreaming, thanks for the advice on supplements. My husband has started taking pycnogenol (50 mg), L-arginine (1 g) and something called FertilPro which contains similar ingredients to FertilAid (L-carnitine, folic acid, zinc, selenium, vit C, E and B12). Fingers crossed that this helps his numbers!

My day 3 hormone results came back normal. My FSH was 6, which is good for my age (below 6 is excellent). It doesn't really tell me anything except that I am not suffering from premature ovarian failure.
WishnHopin, those are great numbers for a woman of any age. Once you get pregnant, you'll probably have a very strong, healthy little bean.

If your HSG is good, then that will point more and more at hubby. He is doing all the right things and so are you in getting a fertility workup. I'm betting you get a bfp very soon.

It's really good you got on it and got checked out by a doctor right away. I really don't agree with the standard advice they give to wait a year before seeking help. BFNs are incredibly depressing and I don't think they factor in the toll they play on a woman's mental health. When I look back at the 2 years I spent TTC, it doesn't seem that long in hindsight, but it was agonizing when I was going through it.



 
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Old May 17th, 2016, 04:56 AM   14
Sweetkat
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Originally Posted by WishnandHopn View Post
Sweetkat, so sorry to hear about your losses. I wish you all the best with this pregnancy! Methotrexate does affect the DNA and can cause genetic mutations, so maybe that is more likely to be the problem rather than the sperm morphology itself? 6-7% morphology lies somewhere between the 10th and 25th percentile for fertile men according to the WHO's reference range. It could be that the abnormal sperm morphology is not severe enough to prevent fertilization, but some kind of genetic mutation could cause the embryo not to develop normally. I am just speculating. I wonder if there is an alternative to methotrexate that your husband could use to treat his condition that is less toxic to DNA?

Calidreaming, thanks for the advice on supplements. My husband has started taking pycnogenol (50 mg), L-arginine (1 g) and something called FertilPro which contains similar ingredients to FertilAid (L-carnitine, folic acid, zinc, selenium, vit C, E and B12). Fingers crossed that this helps his numbers!

My day 3 hormone results came back normal. My FSH was 6, which is good for my age (below 6 is excellent). It doesn't really tell me anything except that I am not suffering from premature ovarian failure.
The issue with infertility and miscarriages is that nobody rrally knows the answers. My OH definitely has some issue but I don't know if it's the cause of the MCs and whether the medicine has anything to do with it. His consultant thinks not! So other men got their wives pregnant without any issues.

Also the stuff I read said the medicine causes no significant DNA damage. But if it's not the medicine and not the morphology then what is the cause? So frustrating.

Anyway, keeping fingers crossed for healthy babies for all of us rubbish morphology or no rubbish morphology



 
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Old May 17th, 2016, 09:06 AM   15
CaliDreaming
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Originally Posted by Sweetkat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishnandHopn View Post
Sweetkat, so sorry to hear about your losses. I wish you all the best with this pregnancy! Methotrexate does affect the DNA and can cause genetic mutations, so maybe that is more likely to be the problem rather than the sperm morphology itself? 6-7% morphology lies somewhere between the 10th and 25th percentile for fertile men according to the WHO's reference range. It could be that the abnormal sperm morphology is not severe enough to prevent fertilization, but some kind of genetic mutation could cause the embryo not to develop normally. I am just speculating. I wonder if there is an alternative to methotrexate that your husband could use to treat his condition that is less toxic to DNA?

Calidreaming, thanks for the advice on supplements. My husband has started taking pycnogenol (50 mg), L-arginine (1 g) and something called FertilPro which contains similar ingredients to FertilAid (L-carnitine, folic acid, zinc, selenium, vit C, E and B12). Fingers crossed that this helps his numbers!

My day 3 hormone results came back normal. My FSH was 6, which is good for my age (below 6 is excellent). It doesn't really tell me anything except that I am not suffering from premature ovarian failure.
The issue with infertility and miscarriages is that nobody rrally knows the answers. My OH definitely has some issue but I don't know if it's the cause of the MCs and whether the medicine has anything to do with it. His consultant thinks not! So other men got their wives pregnant without any issues.

Also the stuff I read said the medicine causes no significant DNA damage. But if it's not the medicine and not the morphology then what is the cause? So frustrating.

Anyway, keeping fingers crossed for healthy babies for all of us rubbish morphology or no rubbish morphology
Yes it is definitely frustrating not knowing what is going on, and what surprised me was that doctors don't always know what is going on. I'm not saying that your hubby's sperm is definitely not the issue, but I think there are so many other things that are more likely that have been more studied and have standard treatments. If it's a sperm problem contributing to the MC, you're going to have trouble finding a doctor who's going to have expertise in that area.

Believe it or not what you are going through is not uncommon. Our bodies change so much after pregnancy, so just because a woman has been pregnant before without a hitch does not mean that problems can't arise in subsequent pregnancies. Thyroid issues especially tend to crop up after a first pregnancy. Sometimes those issues sort themselves out on their own, which is why you definitely should not lose hope for this pregnancy.

Beyond thyroid issues, there are a ton of other things that need to be looked into. Clotting issues, issues with the lining of your uterus, egg quality, etc., all of which are well studied and have very effective treatments. The hard part is figuring out what is actually the problem.

The good news is that you have had a healthy pregnancy before, and so you know going in that it can happen again if you can weather the trials of recurrent miscarriage.



 
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Old Jun 3rd, 2016, 12:57 PM   16
Johnpet
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I would have tried



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Old Jul 28th, 2016, 11:25 AM   17
WishnandHopn
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My husband (38) and I (37) have been TTC for 5 months. I was on the pill for 20 years before we started trying but I have regular 27-28 day cycles and I think we are timing intercourse well around ovulation. My husband *volunteered* to go and have a sperm analysis done last week and when he got the results he said the doctor said they were fine and he didn't need to see him. (he seemed pleased that his hot baths and 150 km of biking per week hadn't hurt his swimmers) I asked to see a copy and I'm not so sure we should be celebrating. His count (24 mil/mL) and motility (38% progressive) seem ok, but morphology is only 3% normal (4% is the cut-off) and there is also a note that there were a large number of immature cells. I won't say I freaked out, but I probably could have reacted better! And of course I've been obsessing about it ever since.

I had my day 3 LH/FSH/estradiol blood test done a couple of days ago so we're waiting on those results now.

So here's my question: if you were me, would you ask to be referred to a fertility specialist now, or keep trying on our own for a few more months? Part of me would like to just enjoy the summer without being poked and prodded. The control freak side of me wants to KNOW what is going on with us, and worries about delaying getting help any longer.
I just wanted to give an update here for future readers: After 7 months of TTC I got a BFP this week! My DH had been taking FertilPro (L-carnitine, folic acid, zinc, selenium, Vit C, E, B12), L-arginine (2 mg) and pycnogenol (50 mg) daily for about two months when we conceived. Of course, I have no idea if these supplements increased his sperm quality/quantity or if it was just a coincidence and we got lucky, but I'll take it!

Edit: The joy of my first ever BFP was short lived, I lost it at 5 weeks 4 days. We've been TTC our rainbow baby ever since.



 
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Old Jul 28th, 2016, 13:15 PM   18
CaliDreaming
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Originally Posted by WishnandHopn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WishnandHopn View Post
My husband (38) and I (37) have been TTC for 5 months. I was on the pill for 20 years before we started trying but I have regular 27-28 day cycles and I think we are timing intercourse well around ovulation. My husband *volunteered* to go and have a sperm analysis done last week and when he got the results he said the doctor said they were fine and he didn't need to see him. (he seemed pleased that his hot baths and 150 km of biking per week hadn't hurt his swimmers) I asked to see a copy and I'm not so sure we should be celebrating. His count (24 mil/mL) and motility (38% progressive) seem ok, but morphology is only 3% normal (4% is the cut-off) and there is also a note that there were a large number of immature cells. I won't say I freaked out, but I probably could have reacted better! And of course I've been obsessing about it ever since.

I had my day 3 LH/FSH/estradiol blood test done a couple of days ago so we're waiting on those results now.

So here's my question: if you were me, would you ask to be referred to a fertility specialist now, or keep trying on our own for a few more months? Part of me would like to just enjoy the summer without being poked and prodded. The control freak side of me wants to KNOW what is going on with us, and worries about delaying getting help any longer.
I just wanted to give an update here for future readers: After 7 months of TTC I got a BFP this week! My DH had been taking FertilPro (L-carnitine, folic acid, zinc, selenium, Vit C, E, B12), L-arginine (2 mg) and pycnogenol (50 mg) daily for about two months when we conceived. Of course, I have no idea if these supplements increased his sperm quality/quantity or if it was just a coincidence and we got lucky, but I'll take it!

http://www.yadtech.com/en/product/fe...n-l-carnitine/
Congratulations!! I'm so happy for you!!!



 
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Old Jun 13th, 2017, 00:57 AM   19
BhalaDina678
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Congratulations on your BFP ! I'm really worried and stressed out - has anyone tried acupuncture prior to shim phase if IVF? I also have a BMI of 26 and 5.7 A1c indicative of prediabetic tendency and weight issues ( 10 lbs over weight ) . I just gave 4 weeks to lose 10 lbs , thinking of doing 5:2 diet , fasting 2 days with < 500 cal , other 5 days eat healthy. Any thoughts appreciated! My FSH is high 11, AMH 0.6 I'm 35.5 .



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