7th Natural cycle IVF(w/o meds) and finally BFP!

[dovkav123]

My progesterone last month was 151 and this month 50. I beleave I produced some myself last month, and this month I didn't. 50 is still a good nr.

I called for genetic testing this morning. They want 180 euro for an appointment and 400 euro each for chromosomal genetic tests. This is not what we want. They focus to family history, early m/c, cystic fibrosis and other....

In US they do CGH embryo chromosomal testing, (uterus is in good conditon)if they tranfer this one and still BFN, than they really focus to immunity and blood clot disorder.

I havn't done any testing yet. I will.

If my tests are not ready, by my ET. I'll just take aspirin 81mg a day. Vit E1000mg, fish oil 3g a day and green tea supplements, Q-10 more that 100mg. They should slow down infammation and lower immunity. Also avoiding dairy, gluten, sugar(I am v. sensitive to sugar, I develop pimples on my chin), coffee helps. It's funny but I am kind of on this inflamm diet, maybe I have gut feelings.
I am wondering if I should take ciprofloxacin antibiotic when I trigger and till day ET? I read some RE prescribe it. I have them at home.

I drank wine for a couple of days and I can't fall asleep. I should stay away from it even during my AF.

sporadic m/c are chromosomal problems, failed 3 IvF(It's 2 officially for me, 1st IVF they didn't find an egg) is implantation problem.

 

[Briss]

151 is a lot of progesterone!! 50 I think is normal in a natural cycle, anything above 30 confirms ovulation.

I think I read somewhere that embryo chromosomal testing has side effects, at the moment I do not think there are any safe embryo testing procedures cos they will be taking a sell from the embryo for testing which can destroy the embryo or cause defects. I would look into egg/sperm testing and immunology issues first.

I generally do not take Vit E after O cos it was linked to birth defects. Just in case I stop it at O/EC.

it could be due to implantation problem but It's also possible that it's the clinic's fault.

I think my chemical is most likely due to:

80% chromosomal problems (70% sperm/30% egg issue)
20% implantation problem.

 

[DBZ34]

Yes, I think you want the auto-immunity testing instead of the genetic, if you're looking for why there's a possible implantation problem. (If you go to Lilsluz's journal, there's a full list of testing she had done that might help when you're asking your doctors about tests, if you haven't already looked at it).

I would definitely not take the ciprofloxacin antibiotic unless your doctor says it's okay. Reading up on it, it sounds like it can take a lot out of you with the side effects and you don't want to be dealing with those around your ET days. You want to be nice and relaxed with a lot of laughter...the side effects sound much more unpleasant. Plus, you're not supposed to take it with anti-inflammatory pain killers, like aspirin. The aspirin might be better to take at this point.

But the rest of your vitamin regimen sounds good though. (Though, like Briss says, high doses of Vit E can cause congenital heart defects if you take it during pregnancy, so decreasing it to a lower level would be good after ET. 1000mg is the upper limit suggested for dosage and you get some from foods naturally, so it would be good to decrease it anyway).

I, too, feel like I have an implantation issue. That's why my doc prescribed the progesterone to help make my lining a bit more sturdy. I think it takes a couple of months to have an effect, but I'm hoping it will help soon.

Good luck this month!!

 

[Briss]

Just got back from the open evening at CRGH. It's a different London clinic I am considering. I was mainly interested in IMSI and was a bit disappointed as this is very new procedure and apparently they only used it for about a year so not that much statistics. IMSI cannot guarantee that the sperm they pick for ICSI will be chromosomally OK but it increases the chances. They also said with my high FSH natural IVF is probably the way to go. they are against mild stimulation: either full on stimulation or completely natural cycle. the doc seemed to be impressed with my chemical (I mean why they are so excited about it, he was like that's great. really?) I know what he meant that considering that we only had one egg it does seem positive but of course it isn't.

I was quite annoyed with people who turned up, unlike Create clients they seem to know so little they were asking very basic IVF questions and most questions were about success rate. I mean this is so simple and something you can easily check yourself before coming here. It was good that the docs and embryologist stayed after the session to talk to each couple. It would definitely be far more expensive than at Create: natural cycle 5,800 + ICSI 1,000 (I am sure there will be additional expenses) but DH liked them much better than Create. DH was annoyed that at Create I was seen by different person every time and that I was put on mild stim but the second egg was not collected. I personally liked Create, they are low key but everyone is very nice and they almost got us there. I am so sure if it was not for hubby's poor sperm we would have been happily pregnant now.

 

[Briss]

dovkav, how are you doing? have you decided what you are going to do next?

afm, been to gyno today. When I listed all my complaints it seemed like I have a really messed up body after the IVF but she listened and then said it all sounds like my insides are functioning properly She did a scan and did not see any cervical cysts which is a relief, I hate it when they find new things for me to worry about. my lining is 13 mm which super good for 7 DPO as they want it to be at least 8mm. she said I had quite few follicles on the left and 3 on the right (more than before). She did say that my right cyst might be to blame for the right ovary being slower as it takes up some space on the ovary so possible that's why less follicles are being developed but removing the cyst may cause more damage to the ovary so she would definitely leave the cyst in. She did not think the cyst was affecting my FSH. She confirmed that I ovulated from left ovary this cycle (it was good to hear cos my temp is just crazy this cycle and I started doubting whether I ovulated at all). She could not say why I started spotting after AF, there only way to find out is to do another hysteroscopy with biopsy considering we are TTC this is just not worth it. She gave me antibiotics just in case but it may not resolve the issue so up to me if I want to take them. Overall she said everything is in order I just need to get pregnant...

 

[dovkav123]

I have made 2 appointments for tomorrow and it drives me crazy. I can't pick one and my hubby doesn't help me!!! I have to cancel one nowwww! Tomorrow is CD9 and we'll do IVF and it all depends on the follicle size. Private clinic doesn't retrieve in the weekend either. They have only emergency appointments on Saturday. If we are late for this cycle, I am hoping to do this natural and get preggo natural. What a crazy thinking! I have a horrible headache right now!!!!
I really think in the old clinic I lost hope and I think the new clinic will be like a placebo for me, I'll feel better and more positive. At least they'll do something different and right this time. I really want to go there that I can compare private clinic vs regular one. Maybe private clinic is motivated more to succeed.

I talked to my RE and he told me that nothing is wrong with us. We are both healthy. Natural IVF it is like a spontanious one egg, one sperm. For spontaniuos conception takes a year. Natural IVF may take 6 months?(I am thinking this) So we just need to keep trying.
When I got in the room Of course RE started his stimulated cycle IVF report.

They used antibiotics long time ago before ER but it didn't make a difference.

He is sure that eggs and sperm is fine. My hubbies aging sperm has nothing to do with implantation or possible chemical pregnancy. The only thing he stressed out about that child could have behavior problems: autism or ADHD.

They don't test embryo and sperm's chromosomes.

I am so happy Briss that your cyst is gone!!

 

[Briss]

dovkav, good luck with your cycle, I really hope this is going to be it for you! maybe the private clinic has better lab facilities and they will look after your embryo better? Have they mentioned any immune testing or anything else to assist implantation?

 

[dovkav123]

Thank you!
My hubby wants to stay in the old one. He doesn't trust a new RE for poking my ovaries. We are planing to go to the private one.

About immune testing my RE can test me if I want for the peace of mind. Autoimmune disease I was tested before cos I had low WBC.
For endo, he told me that yes, women with endo get preggo but it takes longer even with IVF.

The lab in Germany doesn't perform natural killer tests, in US only 3 labs do it.
I'll try to suppress my immunity and inflammation naturally with fish oil, green tea, Q-10.

thank you so much, girls for the info about VitE I also read about possible defects.

Assistant hatching my clinic perform to embryos for women 38 and over and also who failed IVF after healthy blasts.

He doesn't advice me wait for 5 days with one embryo. The study is done that uterus is healthier place for embryo than the tube.
Also I read that embryo culture media can harden his shell and rises issues for hatching. I really don't know what to do this cycle.

Trombofilia tests will be ready tomorrow.

 

[Briss]

I agree with just one embryo the sooner they can get it into your uterus the better. if you had a choice of embryos only then you could wait and see which one is stronger.

 

[Electricat]

This is last O before we go to the step of asking for help to conceive.

At least it looks like I'm going to O around CD 13-14 which is better than CD 10 I've had lately, I guess....give the eggie some time to mature, right?

We've heard lots of stories about ppl having to cancel IVF because they were preggers at the first appointment, right? Right?.....riiiiight?
Sigh...oh well, FX anyway

I just wish we could do this alone, because it's really money we don't have

Anyhooo - Here are my OPKs, looking goood
https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=696165&stc=1&d=1383998338

Good luck, girls

 

[Briss]

Electricat, that's great that you are ovulating slightly later, gives eggie time to mature and lining to grow. OPK is looking good. Fingers crossed you wont need IVF!! anything can happen.

 

[Electricat]

Thank you, Briss

 

[dovkav123]

Hi girls!
I am glad to report you that I have made the best decision ever to change the clinics. Thanks Briss so much for encouraging me to do that!

CD9, 16mm follicle R (1st IVF follie was on right side-no egg found), uterine lining 7mm.

HCG trigger on Sunday 11pm and ER on Tuesday at 10:30am

Good outcomes of the appointment with a new RE

1. She also said it is in nature that for healthy couples get preggo naturally 20% each months. If embie is in me, we consider we are the healthy couple. With one egg we still have small 20% chance.

2. Trombofilia, immunity problems, autoimmunity and treatment for them with steroids and intralipids, heparin she did it and no good results. I didn't push for it, I hate taking drugs. That's my last resort. My thrombofilia results are ready, I'll find out on Monday.

3. She offered to have a night before ET, the studies are done and the outcome is positive. Sperm can aid implantation.

4. She adviced me to take another HCG trigger shot the day of ET. it may help with implantation.

5. She accepted our old infectious diseases tests from the other clinic, we are so happy about it! My old clinic had to redo the tests. It's there stinky policy.

6. This clinic has a little room that I can take my pants off! None of this comfort in my old clinic!!!

7. She told us to save up for 2 days for SA.

8. Progesterone taken orally liver removes 90% of it and only 10% stays. Probably I have a very sufficient liver it does a good job and doesn't give me hormone side effects. I guess it overworked for the past 3 months so I'll let her rest a bit. I'll take one vagnal and 2 oral this time.

9. She told me to come with a full bladder. Finally I met someone sane. Old clinic didn't care about this matter.

10. She doesn't use any painkillers for ER for natural IVF. I am going for it!!!! I am nervous a bit, but I am going for it! Who know, maybe voltaren is also to blame for failed IVF?

11. She didn't do my blood on CD9, it is too early for O, so she'll look onTuesday, if the follicle is still there.
12. My old clinic had a baby delivery center next door. Looking at preggo women and newborns was really depressing to me. Esspecially on the day of negative beta.

13. She agrees not wait till 5 days. Keeping embryo in the lab longer than 3 days doesn't make sense. The study was done and said that uterus is better conditions for embie that the tube. If you have few embies than you pick the best, this one make sense. Assisting hatching is not proven that it works.
We'll decide to do 2 day or 3 day transfer.

14. This clinic does ER on Saturday. They confirmed it. IVF lab opens for this matter.



And the final thing that blew my mind and gave me huuuuge hope was her words:"I saw on the ultrasound that you have anteflexed uterus. A difficuts one for ET."BINGO! This is the reason I failed my 2 IVF, hysteroscopy, countless amounts of U/S with counless amounts of different doctors! And no one noticed that my uterus is different!!! No one noticed I need a special, qualified ET!! Only me, my hubby saw what was going on! They keep puting embryo in the wrong place..

Anteflexed Uterus that leans forwards over the top of the bladder. I read that you are born with this or it is complicaton of the childbirth. It should not cause infertility problems.


Electrical, fantastic OPK well done! Don't worry about your chart, don't worry to about you O day, FF is is a scondary. OPK is your guide now. BD and relax. Praying and hoping this is your month!
I know the couple came to the first RE appoinmtent and the blood test suprised them- they were preggo! I am sending you this vibe for this cycle!!!

Briss, how are you feeling? I am glad all your "machinery" is working properly. You O'ed and that's the most important! Your temps could go crazy because of the weather, you may had a virus or so....
Spotting after period I was told is nothing to be concerned. Growing lining fast and nice could increase spotting. I spot every month.

Briss, did you pick a new clinic? It is more expensive but your overall impression was great and your Dh liked it. Two weeks left I can't wait you to start another IVF. So excited!


We'll pay tripple for this cycle. But it's worthy every penny. For who else we'll spend this money? Not for us, we have everything we need.
I am glad that I'll see only one RE. She does U/S, ER and ET. This is a private clinic and a private, specific and personal aproach!

Briss, if I'll get preggo this cycle. I will recommend you to come to Germany and do your natural IVF cycle. My clinic will not charge me up front. If we won't find an egg, charging will stop here. For full IVF is 1250-1700 + 59.07 for sperm work. hormone testing 90-110 euro. Plus you'll have a vacation for a week. I'll find out on Monday how much ICSI costs. My old clinic didn't charge a penny.

 

[dovkav123]

Now I a have a question, should I transfer 2 or 3 day embryo? In the history of IVF in 80's 2 day embrios were transfered. THere is a study about 2 and 3 day embryos transfer and BFP. NO much difference, jus 3day embryo quality was worst than 2 day.

https://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/3/476.full

My thinking is better transfer 3day, cos my ovary will have time to heal from retrieval and my uterine lining will have time to grow and my progesterone will kick in by that time.

 

[Briss]

dovkav, I am so glad you are changing to clinic, I feel so much hope for you this cycle!

3. about having sex after EC. I was told that there is a risk of infection and they do not recommend BD after EC cos it's a traumatic procedure, they go through the vaginal wall. I really wanted to BD because my second egg was not collected and it ovulated on its own after EC but after reading about the risk of infection i decided against it so not to sabotage the chances for our embryo.

4. this is new to me. no one ever mentioned taking another HCG trigger shot the day of ET to help with implantation. I will definitely ask the clinic next week

8. did she mention whether it's worth considering taking progesterone injections?

9. I also did ET with a full bladder - such a pain I was struggling and had to rush to the loo 5 min after ET. I was so worried it could jeopardise our chances but they assured me it was safe for the embryo and indeed it was as our embryo survived and even tried implanting.

10. I was completely out for EC. I was sedated but I fell asleep straight away and do not remember anything. You are brave in going with no sedatives. well done!

what does anteflexed uterus mean? is it cos it's slightly bent? I cannot believe you have gone through 3 IVFs and this is the first time anyone noticed!!! this is crucial!

Overall, it looks very promising, I have a feeling that this is going to be a success for you!!

I am going to the second clinic tomorrow for a short one to one app to ask a few questions. The clinic has excellent rating but the price is just way too high. I talked to a few ladies who their stim IVFs there and they said you pay for every single thing almost twice as much as anywhere else. My concern it that they do not really specialise on natural IVF so may not expect it to work first time.

I also found a third clinic that can do natural IVF and has particular focus on ladies with high FSH - Lister clinic. I am trying to book an app with them to see what they are like.

My Dh is trying to quit beer but it's going really hard and he stopped vitamins which is of concern. I need his SA to be much better so we could have a good embryo this time.

Basically my concern with other clinics is that they do not specialise on natural IVF and may not necessarily be super careful handling just one egg. they are used to dealing with 10-20 eggs so if one gets spoiled it's not a big deal. The clinic where I am now is used to dealing with one egg so they appreciate the delicacy where everything is hanging on just one egg.

German prices are really super 1250-1700 I mean even 2,000 compared to 4,500-8,000 pounds over here for each cycle!! Does your clinic have a website? holidays in germany sounds really nice as well although will be hard to get hubby to stay away from all that delicious beer...

 

[Briss]

dovkav, personally I'd go for 2 day transfer for several reasons (i) your embryo may be developing better inside your uterus and on day 3 will be of better quality than if it was left in the lab. (ii) 2 days is enough to recover from EC and your cervix is still open. (iii) your lining will still have time to grow as the embryo would need a few days to float inside and grow until it becomes a blastocyst and gets out of its shell to be able to implant. In my clinic they only do 2 day transfer for natural IVf. 3-5 days transfer only when there is more than one egg.

 

[dovkav123]

Briss, I have sent you a private message. I want to keep it private.

2 Embryo may develop better in my uterus, I agree it could. Also I agree with you about my cervix, it will be softer and easier to enter with a catheter. Also it won't implant in few days. My lining is always perfect. It make all sense, thanks my friend!

36 hours after EC I think is enough the wound to close and heal. I think we'll go for BD. EC is only one poke. Compare to Stimulated cycle is a different story, more damage is done, your ovaries are sore and painful, and you don't want to BD. I also read to avoid BD before ET or after, cos semen may have bacteria and it is not good for an embryo. I am sure my hubby is healthy, he is super clean and hygenic. We don't have spontanious BD. We always take time to refresh before it.

no we didn't talk about injectable progesterone, I'll ask on Tuesday

Oh Yes, clinic needs to have experience for natural IVF.

 

[bettybee1]

Sorry for your failed cycle Hun , just butting here

But in one of your posts you said that if your womb doesn't want 1 embyro why would it take 2 , well most women I know who have 2 embyros put back only get pregnant with 1 baby !

If you take them too blast then yeah 1 back is the same as 2 but since over 50% embryos die past day 4 then

Actually introducing a small amount of stimulation has benefits too be able too harvest the best embryo and give you the best chance

Am 21 , have had 2 failed ivfs both 2 embie tranfer just been through my 3rd ivf and am finally pregnant I had 2x 2 day transfer i am pregnant with 1 baby ! I grew my other 2 embies out too day 5 and one made it too blast ! And the other stopped growing day 4

On my cycle 2 I had 13 embies going strong day 4 by day 5 there was only 4 good ones

So I wouldn't nessalriy dismiss stimulation to yield more eggs , for you too have had 3 cycles with each time resulting in transfer is very good most people who do natural ivf never get too transfer stage ,

And depentent on your age aswell too what the quality is like after day 3 x

 

[Briss]

dovkav, thank you very much! totally understand re keeping things private.

i think everything depends on what's bests and easiest in terms of doing ET with anteflexed uterus. I am not sure if it matters but maybe it does.

bettybee, I agree generally stimulated cycles have better success rates, you have more eggs and more embryos to chose from. It makes sense to grow them in
a lab until day 5 to see which one is the strongest. In natural IVF you only have 1 egg/1 embryo so it's a different situation. There are many reasons why one may prefer a natural cycle. for example if there is a family history of ovarian cancer it is not advisable to do stim cycles as it has been shown to lead to ovarian cancer later in life (in 10-15 years time after the stimulation) in patients who have predisposition. also ladies with high FSH do not respond well to stim meds so cycles get abandoned. it's very individual.

 

[bettybee1]

You can use drugs like clomid and femera too though can't you too get at least 2-3 eggs without really creating a risk ?

I know in England natural ivf is just as expense as normal ivf ? X