Ditching the top ups

[Shifter]

I've posted before about Jack being very hungry in the evenings. He seems to want to feed the whole time. He'll feed for half an hour, take himself off, be content for five minutes and then start frantically sucking his fingers and if not seen to within a few minutes he starts crying.

It's been exhausting, there have been nights where it felt like my milk just wasn't good enough for him and the more stressed I got, the less he seemed to get from my breast.

So pretty much every night we have been giving him a bottle, sometimes EBM but more often formula. I only ever wanted top ups to be a temporary solution but now I have no idea how to phase them out.

What can I do to make sure I have enough milk of good quality for him to be satisfied at this time of day? And is there anything that we can do to help him go more than 2 hours between feeds during the day?! I think this would have a knock on effect and ensure better milk in the evenings (I feel like he sucks all the goodness out during the day!).

 

[Mervs Mum]

i dont know how to make him go more than 2 hours during the day - Hebe has only really gone for longer in the last month. 2 hourly feeds is pretty normal with BF babies as it's so easily digested. I think you probably think that the formula works better because it seems to settle him for longer but thats because it's setting like a brick in his tummy incomparison to your BM. Have you noticed that BM is like skimmed milk and formula is like gold top!!

Dont take this the wrong way (it's always hard to get things across in text IYKIWM so tto clarify this isnt a criticism!!!! ) but I think your issue is mainly in your head - not that you're making it up, just that it's a psychological thing. You talk about 'feeling' your milk isnt enough and so on but I think the thing that clouds it is the top ups.

Top ups are fine BUT they come with their own issues. Every top up be it forumla or BM means you havent sent the message to your boobs that he's not statisfied. You're saying that he's not but instead of telling your boobs, they think they are managing just fine because you dont ask them for any more.

To me you are in the same place wishing4ababy was up until 3 days ago and now read her threads!! She's believed in herself and she's turned a corner.

When he starts to suck his hands an so on he might not be hungry - he could still be windy or veyr tired or just want comfort. You may also be right that s he's hungry but like I said you boobs dont know that if you dont ask them for more ie. you top up rather than put him back on.

Try giving him to your OH - wishing4ababy had found (like I did) that by giving him to someone else, the baby eventually settled long enough for you to have a break, regroup and start feeding again. This type of cluster feeding is often the start of them building up to sleep longer so it's tough but it also could be turning a corner.

So if you want to ditch them you have to do just that. You need to do everything that you would expect to give yourself the best chance in the evenings - eat well, drink plenty, rest during the day whenever you can so you arent frazzled when the cluster feeding kicks in.

My solution was that I got up 1.5 to 2 hours before Hebe and pumped. I pumped enough off for 1 feed in the evenings - that was my break time. I also said to myself if I feel she's had a good feed then I wont put her back on for 1 hour minimum - even if that means she's crying for most of that hour. I wanted to give my boobs chance to at least fill a little.

I've gone on..... I hope this is helpful.

 

[mrs shine]

How long has he been like it hun? Sounds like it could be the 4 week growth spurt.

When he's done one feed do you put him on the other breast or back on the same one?

 

[wishing4ababy]

I understand exactly what you are going through hun...I have been the same..and am the same really. I am just taking it one feed at a time...but the top ups have officially been ditched.....today. I think BF is so scarey...I am frightened of making decisions myself rather than going with my instincts - which is more often than not right. Merv's mum is so right (and has been right so far about everything that i have put into action - BF genius as well as all the other girls on here) about giving lo to omeone else to settle. I firmly believe that charlie can smell my milk and it makes it harder for him to settle. Also, since yesterday (when i had less top ups and therefore more bf) my milk has been more plentiful. Not sure whether this is because i am feeding more or because we are just getting over a nightmare 2 week growth spurt....or a bit of both....but just today....life is so much easier.
Believe in yourself chick...that is one thing that i really didnt do.

 

[Shifter]

Thanks guys. I always give him to Andy to settle, have done since day one, same with the night feeds until recently (when Andy went back to work last week) because of smelling the milk. Unfortunately a lot of the time he still won't settle. We have gone through times where I would go to bed and Andy would have Jack in the living room with him until he either fell asleep a few hours later or Andy felt that Jack definitely wanted more food.

I understand about sending the right signals to my boobs to produce enough milk, but when I've spent four out of five hours with him attached to me and he is still apparently hungry (i.e. nothing else will stop him grizzling and chewing his hands) then I feel I've sent enough signals to be going along with!

I know that some of this is going to be comfort sucking. He feeds for a while and then stays on for comfort and cries when taken off, though this doesn't always happen.

How long has he been like it hun? Sounds like it could be the 4 week growth spurt.

Almost every night since birth

When he's done one feed do you put him on the other breast or back on the same one?

If he comes off, has a brief fuss or nappy change then I put him back on the same one in an attempt to get him to take the hindmilk. If it has been over an hour since he came off then I put him on the other.

The last three evenings (including tonight) have actually been much easier. He's fed then slept or lay content on his play mat for a while etc. Going between one and a half and three hours between feeds. But the nights have been horrific. But we think he's had an upset tummy from the antibiotics I've been on since Monday. So I'm thinking ahead really! I don't want to hope that he's got evenings figured out and I would far rather have fussy evenings and the restful nights we were having than what we have now! We haven't needed to top up in the evenings, but early morning (4am ish) they seem to have been needed to calm him down.

Thanks again for all the advice. I just hope we can really crack this.

 

[Mervs Mum]

You'll get there - just do what works for you as a family.

 

[mrs shine]

How long has he been like it hun? Sounds like it could be the 4 week growth spurt.

Almost every night since birth

you must be shattered!

 

[Jelly Bean]

four or five hours on the boob! Oh my God!!

 

[marley2580]

Have you managed to suss BF lying down? It can really help with those times when they just want to nurse for hours.

 

[Twinkles]

Hey Shifter, just to let you know that my little boy does exactly the same thing, he hasnt been doing it since birth but this past week or so he has wanted to be on the boob permanently in the evenings. He can start anytime from 4 in the afternoon and go on till 10/11pm before he finally falls asleep. Last night was hugely improved, he went from 7:30 till 9:30, and in general the last few nights he has seemed slightly less agitated at the boob. That was the worst part for me, the thrashing about and tugging and yanking at my nipple and i could totally see how dissatisfied he was, i have to be honest it really distressed me.

I have been using a hot facecloth on my boobs at night time to try encourage a let down and have also been massaging my breasts while feeding, (suugested by my community nurse) i dont know whats happened but he has totally calmed down at night now, maybe he has accepted that he isnt going to have a huge feed before bed? i dont know, he still wants to be on me for hours but at least he isnt so distressed anymore.

i think i have a poor milk flow at night time, by the end of the day my boobs are like soggy teabags, i feel as though there is nothing in there at all, like he has sucked me dry! im just pushing through at the moment, drinking loads of fluids and hoping it will sort itself out.

Good luck to you x

 

[Shifter]

Jelly Bean - not all at once! He'll feed generally for no more than half an hour at once, then break for ten minutes to half an hour and want back on. So it just seems like it's continuous. He's being like that this morning after quite a good evening and night - we didn't top up

Marley - we have tried it lying down a couple of times recently, one time worked ok for a few minutes before he got fussy, but the other time he wasn't having any of it! We'll keep trying as I keep falling asleep sitting up during the early morning feed! I'll wake up suddenly, him having finished and curled up asleep against my belly and boob and me still holding my boob

Twinkles - It's good to know you aren't alone! The facecloth sounds like a good plan, I'll try that too.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Still...someone should send your poor boobies on a nice holiday lol!

 

[Shifter]

Jelly bean - thanks hun!

Two nights in a row without top ups ... not for lack of trying last night I should say though hubby tried to give Jack a bottle after I'd gone to bed and told him he could if Jack wanted a feed before midnight as I was exhausted. But Jack refused the bottle repeatedly, he just wanted boob, so I was woken! I'm really glad though, and sort of proud of Jack!

 

[Mervs Mum]

FANTASTIC!!!!!!!

Well done honey and good work Jack and Pheonix too x

 

[codegirl]

Edward was feeding every 3 hours like clockwork during the day... then 7:00pm would hit and he would eat continously until 10:30. It was horrible!!! I considered giving up bf every evening but would say "just one more day" and get through it. It lasted about 3 weeks but felt like forever.

He was doing a very intense cluster feeding that some babies so. The only thing you can do is be prepared. I would eat supper before it started and ensure that I had everything I needed by my nursing chair (TV remote, drink, etc). My husband would take care of diaper changes after every 2 sides so that I could get up and move around a bit. It was also about the same time that Edward started to sleep for 5+ hours in a row right after the intense feeding.

After a few weeks, it slowly started to slow down, and I now have hope that it is ending.

Sending you big hugs!! and remember it won't last forever. Your baby will grow out if it, I KNOW how intense it feels but it won't last forever.

 

[jms895]

Caine never ever ever settles with me no matter if I have BF him for one hour, or two or pumped him with 5oz of breast milk, he fusses for more milk constantly with me as he can smell it. If I give him to OH, he goes off like a light straight away little bugger. Sometimes I have to just put him down as I know he is not hungry and is confused with the smell etc.

 

[Sweetpea7830]

Caine never ever ever settles with me no matter if I have BF him for one hour, or two or pumped him with 5oz of breast milk, he fusses for more milk constantly with me as he can smell it. If I give him to OH, he goes off like a light straight away little bugger. Sometimes I have to just put him down as I know he is not hungry and is confused with the smell etc.

This is the part that confuses me...for the past few days I wouldn't have though my little one was still hungry, but just yesterday he started this not settling at all. He used to be restless with me, but now he's downright impossible at times! I can't tell if it's just the smell or if he's still hungry?? He is sucking his hands like crazy but then again he's just started that and lots of drooling in the past 3 weeks - I think that's a developmental stage? I used to be able to tell he was hungry because he would smack his lips and suck his fingers. Now he's all the time sucking his fist - loudly at times! Any thoughts??

 

[Logiebear]

I know how you feel shifter hun from your first post. We have been like this since birth and Hannah is 11 weeks now!! Feeding for between 4-6 hrs at a time!!

Night times are ok though as I lay down to feed. Here is a link to help you with position as it could be Jack has probs latching when lay down. HTH any way.

 

[Shifter]

Sweetpea - could he be teething hun? Jack sucks his fingers but always has, if your LO has only just started this fist chewing, along with the difficulty settling him, would suggest teething to me

Logie - no link there hun!

 

[wishing4ababy]

sweetpea i would agree with shifter - sounds like your lo is teething to me. The drooling and chewing fists all a sure sign. My lo's started this at about 3 months......and cut their first tooth at nearly 12 months!!