Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'General Chatter' started by Arcanegirl, May 11, 2007.
dont want to read and run so keeping outa this one
How fucking stupidly outragous .....
Thats annoyed me ..... WTF
Saying nothing as i always end up causing rows!
ok seeing as someone has the same opinion as me i think its outrgous and no way should this be allowed!!! people who are desperate for children and cant afford the treatment should get this not some junkies!!!!
Half of that is fucking bullshit!! Mongy gits - We all know smoking is BAD for the health of unborn I for one am struggling to suceed but doing well in stopping 100% but its not the same as meth ... NO WAY an does not have the side effects as meth. Ever seen someone on meth whos an addict! Can't look after themselves nah mind a sodding baby ... OR TWO!
Say it - meth was taken after all in replace of heroin not any other reason. A heroin addict FFs. Injecting YAK .... Stupid *******s (NHS)!
Well as usual I am the sitting on the fence one. First of all they are getting treatment for their heroin use, methadone is a treatment. There are no known long term effects of methadone on a baby so if you are going to comapre it to smoking (which has been shown to have effects) I think they do make a point there. This isn't to say I am having a go at smokers, I have nothing but admiration for those who cut down and stop smoking during pregnancy, it is a difficult thing to do.
Also you don't know that they are not looking after their children. Social services are bound to be involved, they would have been contacted by the midwife. A care contract would have been drawn up and they are obviously sticking to it otherwise their children would more then likely be in care right now. And there are some people who are on methadone who can take care of a baby. I have seen it for myself, someone who found out she was pregnant, stopped using heroin but went onto methadone, has given clean tests since and has a very loving relationship with a very happy and healthy child. She has turned her life around and I have nothing but respect for her for doing so. The article says that the couple are also determined to change their lives for the better and I wish them all the luck in the world. Heroin is a horrible drug
The couple in the article say
Personally I found that article a tad judgemental, its all too easy to make up your mind about a particular group of people but I don't think every heroin user is the same. As for the IVF treatment, yeah if I am honest I do question why they were allowed to start IVF whilst still recieving treatment, perhaps the full story isn't there.
*climbs off fence and removes splinters form arse*
Theres no way in hell they should have got it there's lots of couples who are decent law abiding citizens who would love to have a kid of their own but cant. They read this and it must be like a kick in the teeth.
The fact they were on methadone proves they had no intention of giving up their habit contray to popular belief methadone doesnt get junkies off of their herion habit sheer willpower does.
personally i think anyone who wants to screw their head and body up with drugs should have the right to have kids taken away if you cant look after your own well being how the hell are you gonna look after a baby.
Heroin & children don't mix.
I've seen it with my own family ... my own father & my own sister & the mother of my sister thats where my opinion comes from about a particular group of people. 'Trying' is ok suceeding is another thing & suceeding is without the need for heroin or a replacement. I've seen very little of my sister but the very little I have seen of her showed me how she is being brought up. Social services lark is a joke - they help drug addicts ... not even going to go into social services conversation I'll be here all day but have first hand experience on how they 'work'. Small example with my sister... Auntie reaches for a tea towel guess what was in that tea towel? Shes had to have injections for a year I think it was before being tested again for hepititus (sp) I think it is - Hospital know, social services know, needle was in reach of my sister had she pulled it down NOTHING done! The whole thing breaks my heart.
Seeing people trying is not quite the same as seeing someone have there meth 'fix' because it is a fix in place of 'heroin' not any other reason. I don't drool & have to sleep off my fix when I try & give up smoking so smoking & this situation is nowhere near the same.
And I didn't think they allowed people who smoked to have this fertility treatment either - Maybe I was wrong & if I am wrong I would put my hands up & say I think thats wrong too even from a smoker even with my past history where I thought I'd have to take this route ... should I have had to I don't think that should have been an option until I was down to 0 ciggys. Personally I have cut from 40 to below 10 & trying again this weekend after nearly killing my OH on last attempt of 0 (not kidding) ... Trying to stop doesn't make it right & I'd be the first to admit it - You have to succeed.
Successfully changing your life style & beating the evil drug is a challenge (wish my father would have the balls to do it) & I'd like to wish anyone ever in that situation godo luck if they can pull away from it but I'm sorry I think that should have happened 100% before fertility treatment was an option.
I have to disagree with one of your comments Valentine because I've know 2 successful ex druggies who used meth whist trying to beat the habit but I do think as you say willpower has a tad to do with it but not alot to be honest I just believe the meth replacement should have been beat before this I am not suggesting anyone who has EVER walked in the evil drug world should never have this help .. I don't think that at all .. just beat it before hand because whist on meth for that reason theres always a chance to go back ...
I will never change my opinion based on what my own eyes have seen with my own family ...
i cant believe they are getting fertility treatemnt
it sickens me to know these awfull people can get help to have children!! wether they are on meth or not its still a drug and it still gives them a 'kick' out of using it, its not as if they take meth and they get no effects of it
my opinion on heroin and meth is all the chemists should leave it outside and let the junkie scum overdose on it!! why should all the tax payers feed their addiction?
sorry i just hate junkies and how much they get away with stuff like this, its very wrong and i feel sorry for any baby who is broght into a life where drugs are involved
As much as I hate my father for his addiction & I often believe things would be better if he passed I don't quite think I would wish people to over dose to death! Most of addicted drug usersd have families Weestar!!!!!!
if they cared about how much their addiction was effecting their families im sure it would be enough to get the help they need to stop and not carry on with the addiction, ok its extremely hard and will be so hard for the families to cope with the withdrawels but surely if they wanted to stop so much then love should be enough to give them a head start
Sorry Weestar .... Based on your second reply as I wasn't sure the first time! Are you saying my father should over dose & drop dead because hes a user?
Sadly I 'his daughter' am very angry he never had the will or good enough reasons to give himself a shake even after nearly loosing his life but what the harsh reality of it all was if at that point he had of stopped his life was doomed anyway he'd gone too far for a normal life if he should cold turkey it out.
Have you ever known a heroin addict? Properly ... 'close' relative? Is there any reason why you should think it is so easy? Do you think getting the help from even third parties is that easy? Who said the family 'would' cope with withdrawels? That easy? I think not!
Sorry but i have to agree with charl on this one ....
Weestar drug users have families and i don't think anyone should use the term " Overdose and drop dead lightly" as it is a very offensive thing to say.
We don't know the circumstances of these people and i have never met any drug user so don't really wish to comment on something i have no knowledge over ....
its ok having an opinion but when it offends somebody who has been there through a close and personal relationship a comment loike you made is bang out of order.
I agree with wobbles on this one.
My dad used to do alot of drugs Heroin, LSD ect when he was younger and even though I hated it and wished he would stop (which he has now) I would not wish him dead.
I don't like druggies at all but as wobbles said they still have families and I would have been devistated if he had 'Overdosed and dropped dead' and left me behind because yes he used drugs but he's still my dad at the end of the day.
Just my oppinion.
Wobbles I completely see where you are coming from and I have sadly seen too many examples where drugs have come before children and that is where social services should be concentrating. I know how frustrated and angry the situation with your sister makes you, and I am not trying to change your mind. All I object to is the sweeping statements made, and comments such as "I hate junkies". I think that is a terrible thing to say, some people turn to drugs as they feel that they have no way else of blotting out their life. They shouldn't be condoned and treated like scum. Not everything is black and white!!
Weestar there is very little help out there. Round here the waiting lists to be assessed for treatment are 8 weeks if they are lucky, and even then they don't always get the help they need. Its not easy, people take heroin for all sorts of reasons, and it suppresses emotions so if they have a lot of stuff to deal with it can take a long time.
I know your not Beanie
I guess for me it's such a touchy subject regardless of this story - More than anything before I thought about this story I fumed in general. I don't think I would ever speak of anyone that was a drug user in any way other than what I would speak of my own father if you know what I mean. I just feel that it shoudl have been 100% first & obviously with the want in suceeding they woudl have got there without the meth right the way through. It just seems wrong in a way & the risks were high in many ways - for the child & the carrying mother.
I have spoke before of my father & have often thought he would be best passing maybe before my sister got to the point where she could remember his 'state' but when faced with loosing him nearly 3 times although I back away from him I was in a right mess.
My Dad is a grown man none of my family are drug users & they have their own families now, my Nan is ill with cancer & they have all tried to help him but theres only so much you can do when you have to look after your own family unit. He doesn't deserve to be a father & as he had no contact with me til I was 21 he never had the children thing to worry about. How they both conceived is beyond me it really is.
I didn't take the drop dead comments lightly tbh - Maybe if my Dad wasn't who he is my opinions would be different! Who knows.
Rachel thats really good you Dad came out of it all
at what point did i say drop dead? i used the term overdose because its how i feel about this situation, i was asked for my opinion and i gave it!
i still stand by my feelings towards this, and at the end of the day i wasnt trying to offend anyone its how i feel about drug addicts, so really whats the point in sharing your own personal opinion if you just get brought down on it?
Well my personal opinion is that they should not have been allowed to have the fertility treatment if they are using .. whether it is heroin or meth .. they should have both been clean before they were given the treatment. It upsets me because i (and prob a lot of others) have been told that they wont even do tests to check for problems with fertility in the first place because there is no funding for it. If they wanted a family so badly then why didnt they make sure they could stop using before trying ... i even gave up smoking before i started ttc!! I am not going to sit here and say people who take drugs shouldnt have babies because its not my place to say that but i just think it is wrong because there is not much funding for these sorts of treatment and people are missing out. I think this situation could have been handled better and think maybe they should have been given help to come off the drugs first. I know they are trying to kick the habit now but they are still using something so are not completely out of the woods yet.
Thats my opinion anyway .. know others may have different opinions to me and i respect that.