Freebirthing?? D:

[moomin_troll]

whats wrong with using something other then a horrible plastic clip to clamp the umbilical cord? personaly i was very happy to use a silk tie rather then that lump of plastic that can hurt the baby.

i didnt plan but almost had a unassisted birth and lucky everything for me went great. those who have unassisted/freebirths dont just wake up one day and think oh yeah i wont bother calling a MW and ile just do it myself....no its planned with great care and alot of research. maybe afew of u who are so quick to say its dangerous and irrasposible should actualy do abit of research urself first

 

[SAJ]

Wow, ladies, thank you for all of your responses an some sharing some wisdom.

I'm glad to see how large this thread has gotten. I didn't think it would make it this long!

In all honesty, I am a little scared of the birthing process. Not from
These videos, but just general pain. Mind you, seeing these last two ladies shouting at their partners not to touch them at all; I don't know if that was a personal preference or if it really hurt for someone to touch them there.

I realize we're going to be sensitive but, wow.

When I had my son, I wanted NO ONE to touch me. I think it was because I was trying to deal with the pain and really concentrate on relaxing (no epidural) and having someone touch me would break my concentration.

 

[Annubrius]

Wow, ladies, thank you for all of your responses an some sharing some wisdom.

I'm glad to see how large this thread has gotten. I didn't think it would make it this long!

In all honesty, I am a little scared of the birthing process. Not from
These videos, but just general pain. Mind you, seeing these last two ladies shouting at their partners not to touch them at all; I don't know if that was a personal preference or if it really hurt for someone to touch them there.

I realize we're going to be sensitive but, wow.

If it helps the thought of labour can be scarier than the actual labour. For me it was like my body took over and I just had to trust in it and it knew what it was doing. Yes it was painful, yes i had interventions but im 100% glad that the support network was there. I did not have any expectations of my birth, my birth plan was 5 words. Outcome - Healthy baby healthy me.

I fully support home births- but to not have anyone there who knows anything- if something did go wrong my god - it would be horrendous. and tying off the umbilical cord with a shoelace? oh god.

Glad to hear it!! Makes me feel a bit more comfortable.

whats wrong with using something other then a horrible plastic clip to clamp the umbilical cord? personaly i was very happy to use a silk tie rather then that lump of plastic that can hurt the baby.

i didnt plan but almost had a unassisted birth and lucky everything for me went great. those who have unassisted/freebirths dont just wake up one day and think oh yeah i wont bother calling a MW and ile just do it myself....no its planned with great care and alot of research. maybe afew of u who are so quick to say its dangerous and irrasposible should actualy do abit of research urself first

Moomin, I've seen a few of your posts and you're getting pretty defensive. I asked for the community's opinions. Yes, we may not all like them, but it is what it is. Relax and take none of it to heart, this is not a discussion, but rather an opinionated thread. . I'm glad things went well for you, that makes me happy.

Wow, ladies, thank you for all of your responses an some sharing some wisdom.

I'm glad to see how large this thread has gotten. I didn't think it would make it this long!

In all honesty, I am a little scared of the birthing process. Not from
These videos, but just general pain. Mind you, seeing these last two ladies shouting at their partners not to touch them at all; I don't know if that was a personal preference or if it really hurt for someone to touch them there.

I realize we're going to be sensitive but, wow.

When I had my son, I wanted NO ONE to touch me. I think it was because I was trying to deal with the pain and really concentrate on relaxing (no epidural) and having someone touch me would break my concentration.

That makes a ton of sense.

 

[moomin_troll]

i havent taken anything to heart and i am not getting defensive about anything. basicaly if someone makes comment on something they seem to not understand or have even looked into and make sweeping comments like dangerous they should have facts to back that up.

im giving my response to others comments, i havent tried to start debates.
also like the plastic cord clamp is so commonly used now that when someone does something different its then seen to be weird or questioned so i then put why i didnt want to use one.

 

[waitandsee]

basicaly if someone makes comment on something they seem to not understand or have even looked into and make sweeping comments like dangerous they should have facts to back that up.

"... From Wikipedia:

Another issue that is associated with maternal mortality is the lack of access to skilled medical care during childbirth and the distance of traveling to the nearest clinic to receive proper care. In developing nations, as well as rural areas, this is especially true. [14]

Maternal death rates in the 20th century

The death rate for women giving birth plummeted in the 20th century.
The historical level of maternal deaths is probably around 1 in 100 births.[15] Mortality rates reached very high levels in maternity institutions in the 1800s, sometimes climbing to 40 percent of birthgiving women. At the beginning of the 1900s, maternal death rates were around 1 in 100 for live births.

The number in 2005 in the United States was 11 in 100,000, a decline by two orders of magnitude,[12] although that figure has begun to rise in recent years, having nearly tripled over the decade up to 2010 in California.[16] For the United States, 11 in 100,000 is now one of the lowest estimates. Maternal deaths in the United States range up to 17 per 100,000 live births.[17]

The decline in maternal deaths has been due largely to improved asepsis, fluid management and blood transfusion, and better prenatal care.[citation needed] Recommendations for reducing maternal mortality include access to health care, access to family planning services, and emergency obstetric care, funding and intrapartum care.[18]

...."

So I would say, there is a pretty obvious connection between risk and availability of medical care. Which would be absent in the case of a birth without a doctor or midwife around.
If someone wants to take that risk, fine, but that doesn't make it go away.

 

[moomin_troll]

ur point isnt balanced at all, you havent included the things that go very wrong because of medical intervention....i also wouldnt base my whole point using wikipedia.

unfortunatly giving birth even tho natural is one of the most dangerous things a woman can do and we all are taking that risk and unless we went thru every babies death we will never no if it was because it was because of a unassisted birth or not as we cant see what the outcome would of been if that mother was in a hospital

 

[Kage76]

I agree that birth now a days is over medicalised. As i said i fully support home-birth but the fact of the matter that in the 1800's when all births were pretty much freebirth childbirth was the number 1 killer of women. Absolute fact. . i still think that its would be better if someone who has training in what can go wrong and how to help is present. Even if she is in the next room having a cup of tea and checks on you occasionally. I mean for me and me alone- the risk and the consequences are way to high a cost.

 

[aliss]

Well, let's not forget that back in the day, nobody thought about infection. It wasn't necessarily the birth itself that was killing women, it was the infection afterwards. If you read Birth: A History by Tina Cassidy you'll find it was quite a fight for doctors to even wash their hands when delivering.

I will be having an elective C-section next time due to a very traumatic birth but there are days I wish I could just do it myself. When you are the victim of medical malpractice like my boy was, you lose all faith in the medical system. No, your trained doctors won't always do the right thing and that can cause people to have unassisted births. To each their own. Hopefully most people who are against unassisted births are never in the position to seriously consider one after a major medical error.

 

[PegLeg2na]

I agree that birth now a days is over medicalised. As i said i fully support home-birth but the fact of the matter that in the 1800's when all births were pretty much freebirth childbirth was the number 1 killer of women. Absolute fact. . i still think that its would be better if someone who has training in what can go wrong and how to help is present. Even if she is in the next room having a cup of tea and checks on you occasionally. I mean for me and me alone- the risk and the consequences are way to high a cost.

We also can't just look at medical care alone as a factor in infant and mother mortality...we also need to consider modern plumbing, sanitation (for instance just washing hands!), prenatal care (pregnant women used to wear corsets, drink, smoke, use lead-based makeups, eat less to maintain the figures, and there wasn't such a thing as bedrest for frontier women...), family dynamics, and a whole host of other factors need to be considered, too. So childbirth alone was not necessarily the #1 killer of women, but infection, lack of medical knowledge etc. Also, women RARELY gave birth alone at home, there would always be at least a mom, sister, grandma, friend, AND/or a midwife present. Men (except male doctors) were barred from the room.

ETA. Aliss you must have been typing at the same time as me! ;-) I agree with your post.

 

[moomin_troll]

it is a horrible feeling when u feel let down by a medicaly trained person. my mum has been let down by mws and doctors with all 4 of her births, she almost died after having me thru medical intervention then medical neglagence. i was also let down when i had my first so thats why i had my second at home....i then ended up in hospital for stitches and that doctor caused more harm then good! i would of been better alone.

lucky there are good mws, docs n hospitals out there so not everyone will have a bad experience. but to think just because ur in a hospital that things wont n cant go wrong or u will get the care u need is nieve as it isnt always the case

 

[immie]

Watching that has just made me even MORE impatient for the day i get to have my LO in my arms! Putting the dangerous aspect of it aside, it's so beautiful xxx

 

[moomin_troll]

Watching that has just made me even MORE impatient for the day i get to have my LO in my arms! Putting the dangerous aspect of it aside, it's so beautiful xxx

very true, the feeling of finaly holding ur baby is amazing...then when they turn 3 and are talking back to u, u wish u cud put them back in haha

 

[EllieJay]

I think I'm missing something here. These women want unassisted births... why? To prove a point maybe? Because it seems a little stupid that they want it so private, yet are more than happy to have it filmed and broadcast.

Anyone who opts for an unassisted birth needs to get their priorities right. The main thing to consider is the unborn child, and in my opinion, having a medical professional there is important because NOBODY, even in a low-risk pregnancy, can say that nothing will go wrong.

Unless somebody can give me a decent reason as to why they would want to do it alone, then my opinion on this will remain that it should be illegal.
I will not take "for privacy" "because it's more relaxed" or anything of the sort as a reason, those are just selfish answers.

 

[Jaylynne]

Unassisted childbirth has been linked to substantially elevated rates of both maternal and neonatal mortality. One of the few, and perhaps the only, formal investigation of the mortality rates associated with the practice was conducted by the Indiana State Board of Health in 1984, among members of a religious community in Indiana. The investigation found a perinatal mortality rate 2.7 times higher, and a maternal mortality rate 97 times higher than the state average. In this community, pregnant women receive no prenatal medical care and deliver at home without medical assistance. This community avoids not only prenatal medical care but all medical care.[16]. -center for disease control 1984.


Sorry, but to me, choosing something that has a maternal mortality rate 97 times higher than the state average (including medical interventions) is irresponsible. You can plan your ass off to do free births, but if you hemorrhage( or something else drastic goes wrong) not very easy to remember what you planned if your out of consciousness. I get that some moms might have had bad experiences with medical professionals are leery, but you don't fly a plane just from reading manuals. You have to have training as there are just to many variables just like in birth. Anything can go wrong. Everything can also go right, but there's no way in hell I would put my baby or myself intentionally in a risky position.

 

[aliss]

Unless somebody can give me a decent reason as to why they would want to do it alone, then my opinion on this will remain that it should be illegal.
I will not take "for privacy" "because it's more relaxed" or anything of the sort as a reason, those are just selfish answers.

Because some women have been traumatized by the medical community. My son was born with a birth injury as a result of improper delivery care (and yes, my OBGYN admitted it and apologized). Some women would like to take their own birth experience into their own hands and they have every right to do so. Obviously the vast majority of the world may disagree with them, but it's their right to do so with their own body - until the child is actually born, it's their body and their choice. You don't have to like it or agree.

But I hope you never have to truly understand what's it's like to be terrified of a hospital or doctor because they hurt your baby and could have killed your baby. Surely women like me have rights to do this their own way?

And like I said, my next is going to be an elective C-section. I'm not an unassisted homebirther. But I can 100% understand why a woman would do such a thing. Most of you can't understand - again, it doesn't matter. It's not your decision, your body, or your fetus.

 

[PegLeg2na]

Unless somebody can give me a decent reason as to why they would want to do it alone, then my opinion on this will remain that it should be illegal.

@EllieJay My decent (simple) reason is that women should ALWAYS have a choice as to how they give birth, including freebirthing. These women taped the footage themselves (they were alone) and gave it to the filmmakers to show an alternative way of birth.

Unassisted childbirth has been linked to substantially elevated rates of both maternal and neonatal mortality. One of the few, and perhaps the only, formal investigation of the mortality rates associated with the practice was conducted by the Indiana State Board of Health in 1984, among members of a religious community in Indiana. The investigation found a perinatal mortality rate 2.7 times higher, and a maternal mortality rate 97 times higher than the state average. In this community, pregnant women receive no prenatal medical care and deliver at home without medical assistance. This community avoids not only prenatal medical care but all medical care.[16]. -center for disease control 1984.


Sorry, but to me, choosing something that has a maternal mortality rate 97 times higher than the state average (including medical interventions) is irresponsible. You can plan your ass off to do free births, but if you hemorrhage( or something else drastic goes wrong) not very easy to remember what you planned if your out of consciousness. I get that some moms might have had bad experiences with medical professionals are leery, but you don't fly a plane just from reading manuals. You have to have training as there are just to many variables just like in birth. Anything can go wrong. Everything can also go right, but there's no way in hell I would put my baby or myself intentionally in a risky position.

Okay, I have an issue with using these statistics to support your opinion. Last time I checked, there are places in India with very poor water quality, sanitation, and living conditions so maternal mortality rates from India cannot be directly correlated to a lack of medical care. Also, if they don't receive ANY medical care, how can the maternal deaths be directly related to the births? What if they have underlying conditions like diabetes, heart conditions, brain malformations that can hemorrhage during birth, secondary infections, or any other condition that is worsened by pregnancy?

I don't think these statistics can be applied to first-world countries like the UK and the US (where the births were filmed) that have on average much better living conditions. You just cannot say that a 97% higher rate of maternal mortality in one community that practices freebirthing means that ALL freebirths carry the same percentage risk! The moms in the videos had access to clean water, waste management, and medical supplies, AND they were also willing to seek medical attention if necessary.

 

[Jaylynne]

Well pegleg, I'd love to have more studies done by a national center, but fortunately the overwhelming majority of women choose to have their babies in a safer environment. Also. It wasn't India, it was INDIANA which is a state. In the US. Which is what you call a first world country.

 

[PegLeg2na]

Well pegleg, I'd love to have more studies done by a national center, but fortunately the overwhelming majority of women choose to have their babies in a safer environment. Also. It wasn't India, it was INDIANA which is a state. In the US. Which is what you call a first world country.

Oops! Sorry about the India/Indiana (OT, but I do only have my left peripheral vision to work with here! ) Well, you can forget what I said about living conditions (unless part of their religious community involves living without modern plumbing and waste management, which is possible), but the medical care to diagnose preexisting health conditions and using an isolated community to measure the dangers of all freebirths definitely still apply.

 

[Jaylynne]

Ok I agree with you there pegleg. I do think the Indiana community would be considered more Zion birthing as they would never get medical assistance vs just trying without. I still would never risk it. I'd be much more comfortable with a midwife present if I ever did a homebirth (which isn't for me)