General baby sleep/feeds/naps! Need advice!

[stephanyox]

My LO is nearly 20 weeks old. We started weening at 17 weeks, he's now on veg and fruit puree's as well or porridge every day. Thing is, i can't seem to get him into a proper routine. He used to sleep from 11pm till 9:30am every night without fail since 6 weeks old. Now he's becoming more and more fussy, this has been happening since about 13 weeks old. Generally he has 5-6 day sleeps (sometimes less) Which range about an hour at a time, about 5-6 hours in total during the day. He has 6-7 bottles a day (we make up 8oz bottles, a lot of the time he has all 8oz, but sometimes he can have maybe 4oz or sometimes just 1oz.) But generally throughout 24 hours he has around 30oz in total. At night he can range from 7-10 hours sleep, he has, on the odd occasion gone 11 and a half hours but differs every night. His total sleep in 24hours (naps and night sleep) is about 14-15 hours. (normally half of that at night and half during his naps) He sometimes has his breakfast, or some days we'll give him lunch instead. He's become really fussy on his bottles, showing he's hungry but not wanting to drink anything and just refuses the bottle as soon as we offer it. We do occasionally give him a dummy, but the majority of the time he just chucks it out! When we put him down to sleep, he usually falls asleep on his bottle, or being rocked, but as soon as we put him down hes wide awake again. We have tried putting him down to settle himself which he's only done a few times, but a lot of the time it just leads to more crying. He normally goes to sleep about 12am, which i think is too late for him. I think he may be having too many day sleeps, which is making him not as tired at night? But he seems like he's overtierd during the day. He is teething at the moment, and has been since 6 weeks. he also has suspected reflux and gets a lot of trapped wind.

How many day sleeps should he be having at his age?
How many oz of milk roughly?
Should i try to entertain him more during the day to lengthen the time hes awake for?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for taking the time to read through! Any input would be greatly appreciated, and also your childs sleep/feed routines through the day and night would help too. Thankss, from a very tired mummy!

 

[AllieCat]

If he's about 5 months he should probably take 3 to 4 naps a day .. mine was at about 3 a day at that age. Couldn't tell u how much milk he should be getting BC I bf. I can tell u though.. that when they begin solids they tend to settle into a more regular schedual once they eat regularly. He's probably not eating at set times a day yet.. but don't force it on him. If he dosnt want solids offer milk... as for the naps. I'm betting he falls asleep while drinking milk because its comfortable. However it seems he's not tired every time so he wakes back up. That's just how it goes. He can't tell u when he's tired. So just try to keep him up for about 2 hours at a time.. then try naps every two hours.
Mine also goes to bed very late but she wakes up late so its fine for me. If it bothers you that he stays up late.. look up Dr Sears sleep training. There are certain ages you should or shouldn't do it and a few methods to try. Good luck.

 

[ElmaWG]

My DS only takes 30 minute naps, and he has 4-5 of these a day with 1.75-2 hours awake between. Your son is 4 months? I'd say 5 naps max. But fewer if they are longer than 30 minutes. 3-4 is probably a good bet.

He should be sleeping 10-12 hours at night at that age, so if he sometimes he only gets 7, I'd say he's definitely overtired. Although it sounds like he's taking more naps to make up for it. But really at this age, he should be consolidating more sleep at night, less during the day.

Is there a reason his bedtime is so late? (like work schedules?) Ideally you should move that up quite a bit if you can (but do it gradually...or not). try 7 or 8pm. that's typical. It shouldn't effect his wake time much (well 9:30 is a pretty late wake up time)...so you end up with more total night time sleep. I'll try to write more late if i get the time.

 

[stephanyox]

Thanks AllieCat, today he had three naps, he was awake 2 hours inbetween, his first nap was half hour and his second nap was 1hour and a half long. This was a good routine sign, untill he woke at 4:10pm and didn't go to sleep untill 8pm, I think he may had been overtired.. he started showing signs that he was tired so me and OH tried to put him down as we have done the whole of today and he just wasn't having any of it. During the day for his naps, we just put him in his cot when he showed signs of tiredness, popped a muslin cloth next to him and played a lulibye on my phone, Which sent him to sleep within 5 minutes during the day, but he didn't fancy this when we put him to sleep about 6pm. Does this sound a bit better than the routine before? I have no idea why he didn't see it through all day, because during the day he seemed like a much happier baby. I will deffo look up Dr sears, hopefully that will help, thankyou x

ElmaWG,
Yea he'll be 5 months on the 1st. I thought he should be sleeping more than 7 hours at night.. Some nights he will do a long stretch but it's very rare. No there's no reason for the late bedtime, He used to sleep from 11pm-9:30am and that's just how it stayed, sometimes on a night he just fusses and cries a lot which makes his bedtime even later. Thanks for all the info, and ill attempt to move his bedtime up to around 7-8pm, how would i go about doing this? I thought about not letting him nap so much during the day, especially in the evening, so he will go down around 7, but he just gets overtired, and makes his sleeptime even later! Also, what do you do to get your LO's to sleep for naps and night times? I used to rock him in my arms, put him in his cot with music or put him in his cradle swing, all of which depends on the mood he's in whether or not he will fall asleep.

Thanks again x

 

[ElmaWG]

Well, if he went to bed at 8pm tonight, that sounds like a step in the right direction for sure. But if he was up from last nap at 4pm then he was probably overtired by 8. He may have had trouble falling asleep because this routine is so new to him. Does he usually self-settle to sleep pretty easily? I bet a change in the routing makes it harder for babies to settle cause their sleep cycles all out of whack, so to speak. Did he sleep well throughout the night?

But in general, it sounds like you had a good day. Three naps, good. Last nap ended at 4pm, that also sounds good. I'd say try to do the same thing for the next few days, and see if he'll settle easier. Maybe you mentioned this, but what time did you try to get him to sleep? With a 4pm nap wake-up, 6:30 or 7pm would be a good bedtime. Maybe, while you're making this transition to his schedule, you could get his last nap a bit later, so that he wake around 4:45? Easier said than done of course, but that would allow well for an 8-ish bedtime, but he wouldn't be so overtired (only awake for 2.25 hours). Then, after a couple days like that, if you wanted, you could move the last nap up 15 minutes and try for a 7:45 bedtime. And repeat every fews days till you find something that works.

I took an approach sort of like this. Took a few weeks. Once I got to the point of putting him to bed at 6:30, he started sleeping poorly at night, so we went back to 7pm. And that seems to be working ok...though the last 2 night have been not great, so i dunno...his naps have been rough so that might be effecting it.

My DS (4.5 mo) doesn't settle on his own. I go by the clock--once he's been up for about 1.5 hours, play time ends, I turn down/off lights and play some soft slow music (i made a playlist on my iPod). Then i hold him and slowly walk him through the house, or just stand and sway to the music. He lays his head on my shoulder (which i love!) and seems to find this very calming. I do this until he's asleep. Usually he'll cry though right before he goes to sleep, and then I'll pat him and shhh him (though I'm not convinced that really helps). When he's asleep I'll lay him in his crib. All in all this routine works for us, but I'm not fond of it. My back hurts. I really need to work on getting him to settle, but he cries so hard and long when i lay him down awake....

 

[stephanyox]

ElmaWG;
Yes it was a good step, he ended up staying asleep until 9:30pm, woke u and had a bottle then was awake, fighting his sleep until 11pm, he then fell asleep after i gave in and put him in his swing, then during the night he woke at 3:40am and again at 7:30am then at 11:15am. He does sometimes, i could hardly get him to do if before, then he caught a bug thats going around and had a sore throat, during this time (2 or 3 days) he self settled himself at every nap and night sleep. He only self settles sometimes, but sometimes he doesn't seem to be in the mood and would just rather be close to us. but as soon as me or OH pick him up to rock him were back to the crying again. The day was brilliant, couldn't ask for any better, as he self soothed himself and seemed a lot happier during the day, today tho hes back to feeling tired but just not settling at all. My poor OH used to have to put him in his car seat and literally swing the car seat up and down as that was the only thing that would get him to sleep. I know what you mean about the bad back, LO is 19lb 1oz so it's so much effort just to rock him for a little while. When he woke up at 4pm, we attempted to get him to sleep at 6.. but he just refused to sleep what ever we done. Im trying to get him naps into sync, it's just he's the type of baby that will not go to sleep unless he's tired and doesn't really let you know he's tired, until he's overtired! I used to go by, when he shows hes tired, ill start putting him to sleep etc. but lately ive been using the clock to, as he just doesn't show anything until hes overtired. Yes, i also try the shh pat method, i dont think it work either! hah. Sounds a lot like my little man, he cries just before he goes to sleep too. How i did get him to settle on his own a few times, was give him a muslin cloth, and instead of a blanket, wrap him up in my nightgown (smells of me so he feels safer!) and he just drifted off on his own, not sure if it'll work or it was just a few times it worked for me, but anythings worth a try! x

 

[ElmaWG]

Another thing that might help is trying to wake him up earlier in the morning. That might make the earlier bedtime more natural for him. If he's waking for a feed (or just waking and needing re-settling) at 7:30 am, instead of putting him right back to bed and letting him sleep till 11am, could you get him up and play for as long as he can stay awake? My DS wake for the day between 6-7 usually. Then goes down for his first nap of the day about 1.5 hours later. later in the day his awake times are closer to 2 hours.

I think it's hard for them to self-settle at only 4 months old. I do what ever I can to help him sleep, but it sure is hard and frustrating. I feel like just when I get a good method for getting him to sleep, he adapts to it and it no longer works! Like the 'sshh/pat' worked great...for one week. Now it doesn't seem to help at all. It's a tough age for the poor babes, though. A lot is going on developmentally and their sleep needs and patterns change pretty fast.

But it sounds like you're on the right track. Might take a while for your son to adapt, but if you keep at it I'd bet he'll get used to it and start sleeping better. let me know how it goes or if you have anymore questions. I'm no expert, but i'm full of advice lol.