How long is too long (Kindergarten)?

[SarahBear]

In the US, Kindergarten is ages 5-6.

How long a day is too long for Kindergarten? Violet's school day starts at 8:15 and ends at 2:50, except on Fridays when it ends at 12:30. She has been having some trouble at school and today even told me that she "hates" school. I asked her questions about what is good about school and what is hard about school. Here are her lists:

What do you like/what is good about school:

* Making friends - it's a good experience for this.
* Music class (they do it every day)
* Recess
* Testing (I asked if she likes the 1:1 for testing, she said no. I asked if she likes what they have her do and she said yes.)

What is hard/what do you not like about school:

* I don't get enough weekends.
* I don't like PE - it is too tiresome.

What would make school easier/better:

* More weekends
* Breaks to sleep

I'm wondering if she would do better with a shortened day. At school, she is frequently sent to the principal's office for behavior such as hitting, spitting on others, and yelling and running around the class. The behavior isn't all day long, but the intensity of it is enough to be concerning. I think the setting (27 students and a long and highly structured day) is overwhelming for her. However, the behavior is not new and we saw issues in smaller less structured settings as well... but not to the same degree or frequency.

Thoughts?

P.S. I have requested a special education and 504 evaluation and we are also seeking evaluations on the medical side.

 

[catty]

My son is 5 and is primary 1 where we are but it sounds similar age wise. His school day is 8.50am-3pm mon-fri.
He does find it a long day at times and says he misses me but I'd say his behaviour is far better now he is there and has structure and more routine. I'd probably have a chat with the teacher and see if there is anything more she can help with. Is kindergarten the same as school, is it compulsary? With P1 it is compulsory or I think a few would home school but not the norm here.

I do think 8.15 is pretty early to begin the day but don't know what options are available. Here the start time is the start time and it can't be changed

Also just to add - my son's class only has 18 children and he has a speech delay but seems he's one of the only children with 'delays' so she has spoken to me and said she has alot more time to help him since a small class. I think the classes can be as big as 24 here so 18 is good.

 

[LoraLoo]

Thats year 1 here. The kids do 8.50am-3.30pm Mon-Fri.

I volunteer in year 1 on Mondays and Tuesdays and they all cope fine.

Some of them have also attended breakfast club (from 7.30am) and/or stay behind for after school club (til 6pm) or after school activities.

 

[CaptainMummy]

My girls are 9-3, Mon-Fri. My 5yr old is in a class of 31 (They have two teachers at all times, and are going to be split into two separate classes in the next few weeks) but she absolutely loves it. It's a big change for them, but ultimately, I think its good for them. They are all tired for the first few months, and then they adjust.

 

[catty]

Just to add when Lucas was at nursery there was 40 kids and sometimes it was just too loud for him so if he had a bad day they would take him to a little quiet room called the butterfly room with similar children to him. There was about 5 in his class that got overwhelmed with the chaos at times. Could there be something like this she could go to when she's having a hard time. At least until you have your meeting with special education

 

[pa2k84]

Sounds normal re hours (early finish on a fri sounds wonderful!)

Oliver (4) started reception 2 weeks ago, he goes 8.30-3.05 monday-friday.

 

[noon_child]

Some kids that age still could really benefit from a nap but often our school systems can't accommodate that. Is there anyway of scheduling her day so she goes to bed a bit earlier just till she adjusts? Lack of sleep is know to regress behaviour and learning by YEARS.

 

[Neko]

My daughter's school is 8:45 - 3:16 for all students kindergarten through 8th grade. Kindergarten did have a rest period every day after lunch. Some students napped and others read books.

27 kids is a large kindergarten class. Our town's classes are about 20 kids per class per grade, we usually have about 40 kids per grade in my DD's school. Do they have an aide to help the teacher with that many students. I think 27 kindergartener students can bit a bit much for the teacher and children.

Do you have an option to send her to a private half day kindergarten setting? That isn't really an option in the town where I live, but I know some surrounding towns have it as an option.

 

[SarahBear]

The class does have an aid and we do our best to make sure she gets sleep. She has actually been pretty good at home, but I think a rest period about the time they do PE would be better for her. She doesn't typically nap anymore, but at home, functions much better with some down time in the afternoon.

 

[Scout]

My dd is in Kindergarten too. Her day is 8:00 - 2:30 M-F. I think it's a bit long for a 5 year old, tbh, especially since they don't get a rest time. DD frequently complains of being tired, and is often cranky when I pick her up and says she hates school. It's such a big change from Pre K.

 

[pandn]

In Australia 4-5/5-6 is foundation//prep depending on what month you are born. Mine went kinder at age 4-5. That was only for 3 days with a class of 20-25 and from 8:15 to 1:15pm. Australia school year starts in January so he has been prep which is 8:50-3:20pm. He had so many outbursts at school and at home as he wasn’t coping that well. But slowly with some encouraging and extra loving he has improved tremendously. It took almost half a year but he is doing great. Now he hates it when he is sick because he will miss school LOL

 

[morri]

hm that sounds quite tough especially with her extra needs she may need. Once you may have a diagnosis would you get a guide or similar in class? Here kids (autism, adhd other special needs)get their own tutor(trained child care specialists) .They help the kids through the day. also our class sizes are at 20 kids for year 1
here the day is split up(8-16:00h): open start ,1 period(=45min), 30 min break 2 periods, lunch break(1 h), 1 period, late break(30 min), 2 periods or extracurriculars, and if needed after school child care.

 

[SarahBear]

Students don't get a support person just because they have a particular disability. They would have to demonstrate a particular level of need. The schools also have to consider funding, so may be resistant to extra support like that if they feel they can meet the student's needs another way. Resources are also limited as we are in a small district. There is only one special education teacher between the elementary and high school and instead of having a middle school, kids grades K-8th grade attend the same school. Grades 9-12 are at another school out of town.

 

[morri]

The arent doing the teaching , they are pedagogues that help them with how to tackle class work (in class, esp important for example for adhd students) and help them with their organisation , here the are organised and paid for by the the county's child support services.
heres a google translated(failry good translation) of the wiki site https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSchulbegleiter&edit-text=

My nephew is on the spectrum as well and he just got one and since then his school work and happiness at school has improved quite a lot(he is in year 3 , he was diagnosed at the end of year 2)

 

[SarahBear]

Here in the states, schools may hire support personnel which are called paraprofessionals, instructional assistants, or educational assistants. They are hired either through the school district, or contracted out through other educational systems. They provide varying levels of supports to students and may be assigned to a specific student or to a particular class. Because of the size of Violet's kindergarten class and the fact that it is a low-income district, they have an instructional assistant in the classroom. If she qualified for additional support from an instructional assistant, they could hire one for her to support her in the classroom. She wouldn't qualify for that level of support. It takes a lot to qualify for it.

 

[adrie]

Here is Canada, or at least in my city in Alberta, kindergarten is mostly less than 3 hours per day, 4-5 days per week. There are some schools that offer "full day" programs similar to the hours you have described. Our daughter is in school from 8am-10:47am Monday to Thursday, and then alternating Fridays from 8am until 12:15pm (a long day for us).

I personally feel that being in kindergarten for a "full day" is too much, especially if the child is presenting with concerns. It's too bad that the parent has to automatically go with the school's hours rather than having the option to shorter days if that is preferable for the family.

 

[SarahBear]

Well, I mean, I can choose to only have her in half a day, but that then means she's missing out on something because the day isn't designed as a half day. I'm going to wait a bit longer, but if it's just too much, I might switch to just having her go in the morning. I think most of their core academics are then. I also don't want her to miss music as I know she's enjoying it. Mornings would also mean she misses PE which she is not enjoying. Perhaps if she's going a half day, and missing PE, we could sign her up for something like Gymnastics so she's still working on body coordination, but in a way that she's more interested in and perhaps isn't as overstimulating... just imagine 27 kindergartners running around in a gym!

 

[SarahBear]

Violet has been inconsistent at school over the last two weeks because of a cold that turned to a fever that came and went and came again, followed by just dragging... At school though, I haven't heard much about problems. I finally got her to the doctor and on antibiotics. This morning she commented to me that they were working... in other words she is feeling better. So now that she's been feeling better, what does she do at school? She punched another kid. I really want to get an occupational therapy evaluation... The longer we go without addressing the underlying triggers, the more behavior problems will get established and the worse school will be for her.

 

[Natsku]

Long day for me but kindergarten was 9-1 for Maria, and 1st grade is 8-12 now (though she's there until 2 some days with afterschool clubs and is exhausted when she comes home on those days) but it's a normal length in many countries and kids adjust. But it sounds like Violet has other issues going on and getting tired is probably exasperating them, poor girl. I hope you can get an evaluation done and hopefully then some special measures put in place for her, like being able to go to a quiet room sometimes if she's feeling anger build up.

 

[noon_child]

Long day for me but kindergarten was 9-1 for Maria, and 1st grade is 8-12 now (though she's there until 2 some days with afterschool clubs and is exhausted when she comes home on those days) but it's a normal length in many countries and kids adjust. But it sounds like Violet has other issues going on and getting tired is probably exasperating them, poor girl. I hope you can get an evaluation done and hopefully then some special measures put in place for her, like being able to go to a quiet room sometimes if she's feeling anger build up.

Oh for Scandinavian education (are you in Finland Natsku?)! Here in the UK children who might only just have turned 4 years old the week before, will be going to school from 9am to 3.15pm 5 days a week...Some are used to it from going to nursery from 8am to 6pm but at least at nursery they can have a sleep if they want to and aren't learning so formally, and going at their own pace means they aren't as tired.