Low fertility - Own eggs vs donor eggs decision

[Bajayby]

Hi all,

I'm a 39 year old female and have been trying (4 x IUIs) since Jan 2015 with no success so far.

I have an average AMH for my age, but this means low fertility.

I know that my next step in trying to achieve a healthy baby is to try IVF.

I have been told that the success rate of IVF using my own eggs for my age with my AMH is about 12%...but this is an estimate as everyone is different. If I use donor eggs, the success rate increases to about 65%.

Because I have low fertility, I am tasked with the decision of attempting IVF with my own eggs, or IVF with donor eggs.

No doubt that I would like to try with my own eggs.

In Ireland we don't get free attempts with our national health authority, we have to pay for fertility treatment ourselves and as you all know it's a very expensive process...but will be worth it in the end. There are a number of factors that will influence my decision; my age, my partners age, my low fertility, cost.

Has anyone been tasked with the same decision or in the same situation? Has anyone with low AMH decided to try with DE without trying with their own eggs first?

 

[MoBaby]

I'd say if you can afford it to at least give your own eggs a shot then go for donor. We're your iuis with meds and how did you respond then?

 

[Bajayby]

Hi MoBaby,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, my IUIs were with meds, although it was the lower dose, 75iu. I seemed to produce either 1 or two maturing (above 17mm) follicles in my cycles, with smaller ones only developing so far.

At 39 with low AMH, and not knowing if I am producing eggs, it's a difficult decision.

 

[MoBaby]

I know. It would be. What is your resting follicle count and fsh?

 

[Bajayby]

I'm not sure what you mean by resting follicle. I've been told that my FSH level is normal.

Did you ever get any immunology testing done? If so, is it OK for me to ask what you have done?

 

[MoBaby]

Resting follicle or antral follicle or the baseline count. I know with ivf they always count how many baseline follicles you have. It is an indicator too of how well you'll do. Norma fsh is good as some have low Amh and high fsh which is a bad combo. Fsh being normal means you'll have a chance of responding well to meds.I only did recurrent loss panel which included a lot of blood disorders and some genetic screening. But never had nk cells tested or other immune factors. My re at the time didn't really believe in immune issues as a cause. I've had a bunch of losses without explanation so there could be some underlying issue or it could be due to the fact my uterus is abnormally shaped. But there are several here who have had it done and see reproductive immunologists so I bet you can find some info if you make a new thread.

 

[Vonn]

This is a really difficult decision. I know because I've been there. I did 6 IUIs, changing/increasing meds each time & never got more than 2 follicles. My chances with IVF with my eggs was put at 5%. The IUIs were covered by insurance, but IVF is not, so we have to pay out of pocket. We don't have a lot of money, so as hard as it was not to give it a shot with my eggs, we may only have one chance to do this & we just have to give ourselves the best possible opportunity. That means donor egg IVF. And I am excited about the possibility that I might actually get pregnant!

One of the threads on here that I have been on had a woman who used donor eggs (after trying lots of everything), so I got to follow her journey to donor ivf identical twin girls (super interesting how that happened). It really helped me get comfortable with the idea, something I initially thought that I would never have to do, of course. (It seems like every step in this process is one of acceptance that moving on to the next level is the right move.)

There was a grieving process for me, letting go of the idea of having my own genetic child/ren. DH has been great and is really okay with it, has been ever since the first time we talked about it. He doesn't seem phased at all by the fact that his sperm will be joined with a strangers eggs. I am very thankful for that, it would have been much harder if he had struggled with the idea. And our families are supportive, as well. Certainly learning a lot about high tech fertility help, but open to whatever it takes for us to have a baby.

Everyone I have ever come across on BnB who did donor egg ivf had no regrets. But it is a tough decision and not for everyone. And most who do it have tried own egg ivf prior. We simply do not have the resources or the time to try that ourselves.

There is some interesting research out there about micro rnas and the environment (epigenetics) from birth mom really impacting the baby, affecting how the genes from the donor egg are actually expressed in a baby. This helped me to believe that I wouldn't just be carrying "someone else's baby." To me it's a no-brainer that I would want to try DE IVF rather than adoption for the experience of pregnancy, breast-feeding, etc.

I wrote quite a bit! I hope it's helpful. Good luck with your decision. Give it a little time and the right answer for you will become clear. In the meantime, feel free to stalk or join the "Inconceivable and Beyond" thread here on the Assisted Conception page. It's full of ladies on the DE IVF journey!

 

[lisap2008]

If you can afford possible multiple cycles then I would give own egg IVF a try , I would take coq10/ubiquinol 3 months prior to starting stims and stick with high protein, low sugar diet doing this has been shown to raise the success rate.

 

[Bajayby]

Resting follicle or antral follicle or the baseline count. I know with ivf they always count how many baseline follicles you have. It is an indicator too of how well you'll do. Norma fsh is good as some have low Amh and high fsh which is a bad combo. Fsh being normal means you'll have a chance of responding well to meds.I only did recurrent loss panel which included a lot of blood disorders and some genetic screening. But never had nk cells tested or other immune factors. My re at the time didn't really believe in immune issues as a cause. I've had a bunch of losses without explanation so there could be some underlying issue or it could be due to the fact my uterus is abnormally shaped. But there are several here who have had it done and see reproductive immunologists so I bet you can find some info if you make a new thread.

Thanks for the reply MoBaby. Hmmm, I'm not sure what my resting follicle level is. I did get a baseline US done prior to my first IUI, but I can't recall the results of that. I should have a copy of the results in my files though, I'll try find it.

I'm not sure at what point they can test for nk cells..do you know?

I'll look up some threads about immunology on here to see if I can get any more info.

 

[Bajayby]

This is a really difficult decision. I know because I've been there. I did 6 IUIs, changing/increasing meds each time & never got more than 2 follicles. My chances with IVF with my eggs was put at 5%. The IUIs were covered by insurance, but IVF is not, so we have to pay out of pocket. We don't have a lot of money, so as hard as it was not to give it a shot with my eggs, we may only have one chance to do this & we just have to give ourselves the best possible opportunity. That means donor egg IVF. And I am excited about the possibility that I might actually get pregnant!

One of the threads on here that I have been on had a woman who used donor eggs (after trying lots of everything), so I got to follow her journey to donor ivf identical twin girls (super interesting how that happened). It really helped me get comfortable with the idea, something I initially thought that I would never have to do, of course. (It seems like every step in this process is one of acceptance that moving on to the next level is the right move.)

There was a grieving process for me, letting go of the idea of having my own genetic child/ren. DH has been great and is really okay with it, has been ever since the first time we talked about it. He doesn't seem phased at all by the fact that his sperm will be joined with a strangers eggs. I am very thankful for that, it would have been much harder if he had struggled with the idea. And our families are supportive, as well. Certainly learning a lot about high tech fertility help, but open to whatever it takes for us to have a baby.

Everyone I have ever come across on BnB who did donor egg ivf had no regrets. But it is a tough decision and not for everyone. And most who do it have tried own egg ivf prior. We simply do not have the resources or the time to try that ourselves.

There is some interesting research out there about micro rnas and the environment (epigenetics) from birth mom really impacting the baby, affecting how the genes from the donor egg are actually expressed in a baby. This helped me to believe that I wouldn't just be carrying "someone else's baby." To me it's a no-brainer that I would want to try DE IVF rather than adoption for the experience of pregnancy, breast-feeding, etc.

I wrote quite a bit! I hope it's helpful. Good luck with your decision. Give it a little time and the right answer for you will become clear. In the meantime, feel free to stalk or join the "Inconceivable and Beyond" thread here on the Assisted Conception page. It's full of ladies on the DE IVF journey!

Hi Vonn, wow, what a post. I'm so grateful to you for sharing your story.
Do you recall the thread title that you read to follow the other lady's journey? It would be interesting to read.

I have some friends who have gone through the DE IVF journey and this was after they had tried numerous times with their own eggs. In some way the decision to move from trying IVF with your own eggs is a tiny bit easier for some than it is to not have tried with your own eggs first.

I would be interested to know how you came to accept the idea of possibly not having a biological child(ren) of your own. This is the part that I am most struggling with in regards to making my decision - trying to accept that I may not have a biological child(ren). It is like a grieving process.

I will look up the thread 'Inconceivable and beyond'.

Thanks so much again for the info, I really appreciate.

 

[Vonn]

This woman told me about the Inconceivable and Beyond thread, so she was on that one as well, but I met her on the 40+ Trying for First thread on the Pregnancy Over 35 page. SHe's not on anymore since she had her girls, but if you go back and read on the Inconceivable thread, I'm sure you'll follow lots of great stories. I am on that thread, but didn't read back when I joined.

I agree that if IVF with own eggs is feasible, that would be a wonderful thing to try first.

I first started hearing of donor egg IVF when I first came on BnB, but thought I would not have to do that. I believe knowing about it and seeing a personal journey on that path was helpful for me, though I didn't know it at the time. Every so often I would think about what if we had to do this, but never considered it seriously. When we went to the RE and he suggested that would be our best chance, it wasn't a complete shock. I did start crying because it felt so real. We went on to finish the 5 IUIs we had covered by insurance, and it was time to come to terms. With each failed cycle, I thought about it a little more. Slowly, over months, I thought and cried and grieved. Since we probably only have one chance to pay this kind of money out of pocket, I just knew if my husband was okay with it, this is what we have to do to give ourselves the best chance possible. Good luck with your decision!

 

[Pinkie3]

Hi Bajayby, I am one of the ladies on the 'Inconceivable and Beyond' thread and I definitely recommend having a read through some of the pages. When I was contemplating using donor egg this was the first place I went and the women were lovely.

It's a difficult decision and I totally agree with Vonn that there is a grieving process first, accepting that you will not have your own biologically child is hard. However once that decision has been made, hope of maybe finally having a baby kicks in and takes over. DNA doesn't even come into anymore.

I done a lot of reading on epigenetic and how important the mothers role is of growing and developing that child while in the womb. If that embryo was placed back into the donor, it would come out a different child to what it would if you gave birth to it. So when I get pregnant that baby will be mine, no one else (apart from my DH, obviously). I simply had a few cells from a lovely kind women and we done the rest. I see this being no different to other donations (heart, liver, kidney etc) if these do not work properly people donate, for me its my ovaries/eggs.

However I went through 3 of my own egg cycles before moving onto DE, I can easily sit here and say that I wish I had move on sooner but at the time I wasn't ready to give up on my own eggs, I also had a doctor that kept saying to stick with it and that my eggs were good enough when they clearly weren't, I wish I had someone be honest with me at the beginning as maybe I would have moved on sooner. After my 2nd failure I knew I had to make some tough decisions, because of my age, the number of years TTC and finances. We decided one last shot and if it didn't work we'd move onto donor egg, the cycle was a disaster and that's when we made the decision. I cried a lot, but DH was wonderful which was really important at the time, I was thinking with my heart, he was thinking with his head but we knew it was the right decision. And for me, I walked away from my OE knowing I had done everything I could and I have no regrets.

My advice would be to get as much information about your own eggs first. I agree with Mobaby and ask about your follicle count, also a normal fsh is a good sign, you might not have many eggs left but what is left might be good quality. As for immunes, personally I don't really believe in it. The main reasons for ivf failure are egg quality, the environment and thrombophilic (blood clotting) disorders. If financially you can afford to do your OE cycle first then I would, I think you need to know that you tried everything first, if it goes all terribly wrong it will help with the decision to move on. If finances are an issue then gaining as much info about your body and eggs as possible to know what your chances really are, have an honest chat with the professionals to help you come to a decision and do a lot of research, again to know that you are making the right decision. If I am honest, once I started the DE process I still wasn't 100% and kept having doubts but when I started my meds and our donor started stimming and it felt amazing and I had some hope back, it was then it finally hit me that I had made the right decision.

Sorry for the really long post but for someone who had to make this decision herself I didn't feel I could write my advice in a couple of lines.

Also, after 5 years TTC, 3 failed OE cycles (I didn't go into too much detail about these but I tried everything, time lapse on embryos, endometrial scratch, embryo glue, steroids, clexane injections and acupuncture, laps etc) and the first time I became pregnant was my first DE transfer with no funny business but good quality embryos. Unfortunately both little buggers decided to migrate so it didn't end well but it proves what my issue was.

Good luck with your decisions.

 

[Bajayby]

If you can afford possible multiple cycles then I would give own egg IVF a try , I would take coq10/ubiquinol 3 months prior to starting stims and stick with high protein, low sugar diet doing this has been shown to raise the success rate.

Hi Lisap2008

I'm not familiar with coq10/ubiquinol - sorry for my ignorance..are they supplements of some sort? perhaps I'll look them up. I take 'MorEPA' it's fish oils with Omega 3 etc and I take ClonFolic.

 

[Bajayby]

Hi Vonn,

Thanks again for your reply. It's so good to reach out and that people respond and offer you advice or to tell you their experiences. It's reassuring to know that I'm not the only one going through this process.

I started reading the thread 'inconceivable and beyond' last night and there's some interesting info in there. Many thanks for pointing me to it.

This decision will take some time and hopefully I'll have a healthy happy bundle soon after ;-)

 

[Bajayby]

Hi Bajayby, I am one of the ladies on the 'Inconceivable and Beyond' thread and I definitely recommend having a read through some of the pages. When I was contemplating using donor egg this was the first place I went and the women were lovely.

It's a difficult decision and I totally agree with Vonn that there is a grieving process first, accepting that you will not have your own biologically child is hard. However once that decision has been made, hope of maybe finally having a baby kicks in and takes over. DNA doesn't even come into anymore.

I done a lot of reading on epigenetic and how important the mothers role is of growing and developing that child while in the womb. If that embryo was placed back into the donor, it would come out a different child to what it would if you gave birth to it. So when I get pregnant that baby will be mine, no one else (apart from my DH, obviously). I simply had a few cells from a lovely kind women and we done the rest. I see this being no different to other donations (heart, liver, kidney etc) if these do not work properly people donate, for me its my ovaries/eggs.

However I went through 3 of my own egg cycles before moving onto DE, I can easily sit here and say that I wish I had move on sooner but at the time I wasn't ready to give up on my own eggs, I also had a doctor that kept saying to stick with it and that my eggs were good enough when they clearly weren't, I wish I had someone be honest with me at the beginning as maybe I would have moved on sooner. After my 2nd failure I knew I had to make some tough decisions, because of my age, the number of years TTC and finances. We decided one last shot and if it didn't work we'd move onto donor egg, the cycle was a disaster and that's when we made the decision. I cried a lot, but DH was wonderful which was really important at the time, I was thinking with my heart, he was thinking with his head but we knew it was the right decision. And for me, I walked away from my OE knowing I had done everything I could and I have no regrets.

My advice would be to get as much information about your own eggs first. I agree with Mobaby and ask about your follicle count, also a normal fsh is a good sign, you might not have many eggs left but what is left might be good quality. As for immunes, personally I don't really believe in it. The main reasons for ivf failure are egg quality, the environment and thrombophilic (blood clotting) disorders. If financially you can afford to do your OE cycle first then I would, I think you need to know that you tried everything first, if it goes all terribly wrong it will help with the decision to move on. If finances are an issue then gaining as much info about your body and eggs as possible to know what your chances really are, have an honest chat with the professionals to help you come to a decision and do a lot of research, again to know that you are making the right decision. If I am honest, once I started the DE process I still wasn't 100% and kept having doubts but when I started my meds and our donor started stimming and it felt amazing and I had some hope back, it was then it finally hit me that I had made the right decision.

Sorry for the really long post but for someone who had to make this decision herself I didn't feel I could write my advice in a couple of lines.

Also, after 5 years TTC, 3 failed OE cycles (I didn't go into too much detail about these but I tried everything, time lapse on embryos, endometrial scratch, embryo glue, steroids, clexane injections and acupuncture, laps etc) and the first time I became pregnant was my first DE transfer with no funny business but good quality embryos. Unfortunately both little buggers decided to migrate so it didn't end well but it proves what my issue was.

Good luck with your decisions.

Hi Pinkie3
First of all I love your avatar!

Huge thanks for your reply. I have been considering using a fertility counsellor to help to make my decision - have you done so too?
Epigenetics seems like a really interesting topic - I'll do some reading on that too.

My friends who have done DE say that they wished they moved to DE sooner. I'm not sure what kind of stats of success that they were faced with when they tried with their OE. My consult has told me, and it's an estimate, that my success rate with OE would be about 12%, but as I said it's an estimate. I can't tell how good/bad the quality of my eggs are, so it's very difficult to put a success rate on it. My clinic has told me that the success rate with DE is ~65% which is a giant leap from the estimate using my OE.

It's going to be a tough decision, I just hope that I make the right one. Financially, I'm constrained - it's so costly here to have IVF, that I may only get one shot at it, so I would like to give myself the best chance possible.

Im sorry that your first DE attempt didn't work out for you , but you're right, you have some answers now. Do you think that you will try again?

 

[Pinkie3]

Bajayby, yes I did have counselling and I would recommend it. Mine wasn't with a fertility specialist because I had a number of things I was trying to deal with at the time but it was an area that we covered and it really helped.

Yes, we did go again and I had two embryos transferred on Saturday, I will be getting a blood test on Monday to see if this has worked. Fingers crossed.

I see you are in Ireland, have you thought about looking at going abroad? I had my OE cycles in the UK and when we moved to DE we decided to go abroad, there are a lot of women that do this for a number of reason the main being its half the price, Its definitely something else to look into.

 

[lisap2008]

If you can afford possible multiple cycles then I would give own egg IVF a try , I would take coq10/ubiquinol 3 months prior to starting stims and stick with high protein, low sugar diet doing this has been shown to raise the success rate.

Hi Lisap2008

I'm not familiar with coq10/ubiquinol - sorry for my ignorance..are they supplements of some sort? perhaps I'll look them up. I take 'MorEPA' it's fish oils with Omega 3 etc and I take ClonFolic.

Coenzyme Q10 / Ubiquinol is a form of enzyme that your body makes that helps produce the main fuel for mitochondria (the “engine” of each of your cells). In the case of egg cells, mitochondria is their only source of energy. As we age, our mitochondria slow down — essentially running out of gas. Imagining the enormous changes a fertilized egg must go through to become a healthy embryo, it’s no surprise that egg cells have 200 times more mitochondria than other cells and that they require tremendous energy. By taking coq10/ubiquinol we can help turn back the clock in our favor. https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/t...nt-coq10-could-key-pregnancy-older-women.html

 

[Bajayby]

Bajayby, yes I did have counselling and I would recommend it. Mine wasn't with a fertility specialist because I had a number of things I was trying to deal with at the time but it was an area that we covered and it really helped.

Yes, we did go again and I had two embryos transferred on Saturday, I will be getting a blood test on Monday to see if this has worked. Fingers crossed.

I see you are in Ireland, have you thought about looking at going abroad? I had my OE cycles in the UK and when we moved to DE we decided to go abroad, there are a lot of women that do this for a number of reason the main being its half the price, Its definitely something else to look into.

Hi Pinkie3, thanks for the reply

Oh, that's exciting. Best of luck tomorrow with your test. I'm sending lots of your way.

Yes, I am considering going abroad alright. I have been in contact with a clinic in Spain.
I still have a DS sample in the clinic where I've had the last IUI, so if I decide to move to a clinic abroad to do IVF, I may be able to have the sample allocated to another person.

We've already had a skype consult with the clinic in Spain and it just so happens that we're travelling to the area on our hols, so it's almost like it's meant to be We'll visit there when we're over to meet the consult and staff in person and who knows, I may have some tests done too.

The decision still remains though as to whether or not I'll be doing OE or DE.

If I'm to listen to the stats, I'd say DE, but I'm still battling with wanting to try with OE. Hence, the thoughts about counselling - perhaps they can give me the tools that I need to make the right decision.

 

[Bajayby]

Hi LisaP2008, thanks for the info. Wow this thread is full of firsts for me in relation to things that I didn't know or never thought about. I'll take a look at the link that you've added, huge thank you for that.

I hope that you are doing well.

 

[lisap2008]

Hi LisaP2008, thanks for the info. Wow this thread is full of firsts for me in relation to things that I didn't know or never thought about. I'll take a look at the link that you've added, huge thank you for that.

I hope that you are doing well.

I am doing great.