Progesterone

[Nataliieexo]

I had ovulation pain in the 16th I hadn’t temped as I don’t usually ovulate and was fed up. I had taken soy for 5 cycles and ovulated 4 cycles out of the 5. My last soy cycle was 85 days with no ovulation. This cycle I didn’t take soy but had ewcm etc and ovulation pain on the 16th I took my temp the next few days and my temps were higher than previous temps when I ovulated and in the range of what they were when I had ovulated, I had ordered progesterone cream for the previous cycle but didn’t get to use it and at 6dpo I decided it wouldn’t hurt to try it and but thought it might be too late. Anyways 10dpo I’ve woken up to af and wow I’m in extreme pain it feels like someone is hacking me from the inside with a saw. Do I stop the progesterone cream now? And it clearly didn’t work although I usually spot before I get af but this is straight to light flow.

Since I don’t usually ovulate on my own it is literally a miracle that I have ovulated without the use of soy. I have Vitex on the way which should arrive on Tuesday I’m planning on starting that in hopes it will help me ovulate and boost progesterone as my lp is only 10 days 11 at a push.

I’m just feeling deflated that I’ve only ovulated 5 times in the 3.5 years that we have been ttc and had hoped that this cycle would be the cycle since we would have concieved on our anniversary.

 

[happycupcake]

I'm sorry you're going through a tough time. I would suggest trying the progesterone pessaries instead as I was using the cream but I found after a few cycles it seemed to stop working for me. The pessaries on the other hand have been far more effective. I didn't have a short lp but my temps would drop earlier than I'd have liked and wouldn't increase again, they'd just continue in a downward slope. Using the pessaries this doesn't happen.
If you definitely have af then stop using the cream as even though it isn't a huge dose, it will be enough to mess with your cycle should you continue using it and could delay or stop ovulation.
I've been using red clover this cycle and it seems to have made some difference. It's meant to help increase oestrogen, so perhaps this is something you could try also. But to balance, I would ask my doctor for progesterone instead of using the cream.
Have you had hormones checked? Scans done? Anything to determine why this is happening?

 

[Nataliieexo]

That has also been my problem my temps going up until 5dpo then nose diving and not going back up.

The Drs are absolutely useless. I was referred to the fertility clinic diagnosed with anovulatory cycles but my bmi was too high for clomid and that was all they could offer to help me ovulate. I then had problematic life events which stalled my weight loss so I tried the soy to see if it would help me ovulate which it did the first 4 cycles but not the 5th and was disappointed to find my temps didn’t stay high and my lp was short. I didn’t have anything like this when ttc my son I was just off the pill concieved the first cycle and had a chemical then concieved my son on the 3rd cycle. I definitely didn’t expect ttc number 2 would but this hard.

I’ve had all tests etc Ive had several ultrasounds and blood tests because I do have the symptoms of PCOS but bloods are fine and so are my ovaries. I actually had a scan on the 13th December and had one mature follicle and the dr said i would either ovulate or it would deflate and I got my period 7 days later so I guess nothing happened to it but it was also on the side I had ovulation pain this cycle so I’m wondering if it could be the same follicle that was seen on my scan.

Anyways my Drs are clueless I spoke to one a few cycles ago about short lp and the dr just brushed it off as if I was crazy for suggesting it was a problem.
I will try another appointment, but it’s hard when I can’t garentee I will ovulate so I don’t have much to show them in terms of charts. I am keen to start Vitex, it’s clear that my body has always geared up to ovulate sometimes 2 times per cycle and fails so I need the extra push to release the egg which soy did do the first few cycles I tried it.

I will book the Drs appointment though and continue with my plan to use the Vitex and if that fails go back to soy while focusing on my weight loss.

 

[happycupcake]

I think it's worth asking for those tests to be redone. Sometimes one lot of tests won't show a problem but the next lot do. I recently read someone getting tested for lupus, her results came back normal but on testing later on they have come back different and confirmed she has lupus. I know the two are obviously different issues, but it just goes to show things can and do change regarding test results so it's definitely worth asking for them to retest.
Also, can you see someone else? If not, then I think it's worth putting in a complaint as frequently this is what it takes to kick some doctors up the backside into actually doing their job. They need to listen to you because you know your body more than they do. Your luteal phase being short AND your temps not being sustained are a problem which needs looking at and taking seriously. This can cause some really serious problems if left and your weight shouldn't come into it. Whether you're overweight, underweight or an average weight if there's evidence of a hormonal problem they should be doing all they can to help this in conjunction with you doing what you can. You're doing your part, they need to be doing theirs.
It isn't fair to just leave you to it based on your weight alone. Whilst they may have their reasons for not trying you on certain drugs like Clomid, I don't really see any reason why they shouldn't at least try you on progesterone to help correct your lp at least.
I have heard a few times people using progesterone cream throughout their cycle until they're due their next af, to induce a stronger ovulation but I'm unsure of how long this should be done for and I don't know if it's effective but it may be worth researching if your doctor continues to be stubborn

 

[Nataliieexo]

I totally understand not giving clomid because of my weight but definitely don’t think I should be wrote off for other investigations. They also said I had to have tried clomid before they took a further look at other things like my tubes etc. But I will definitely try a different doctors. There is one dr specialised in woman’s health so I’m hoping she is still there as my surgery has merged with a few other surgeries so they are constantly chopping and changing surgery’s in the past year I have seen several different Drs in my surgery. I will have a look into the progesterone for the full cycle.

I feel so bad for my son he loves the company of other children he has autism and although he doesn’t play with children as such he loves to be in there company I worry that he’s lonely at home, especially the way he reacts when he sees his little friends and I think he would benefit massively from a sibling. Not being able to conceive again has had a fairly negative effect on me, which I think is normal, especially over the 5 times I have ovulated i pinned my hopes too much on getting a bfp and been disappointed everytime af arrives. Then there are the constant questions of when we will have baby number 2, and the fact we know I’m the problem my oh has concieved 5 pregnancies with 3 living children and his sperm count etc are fine so the added pressure on me is there. I don’t think the Drs take this into account.

 

[happycupcake]

To be blunt, that's utter bollocks. I don't see any viable reason not to carry out other checks because of your weight. I'm not a doctor, but I can't see any reason. The procedure would be the same on someone of any weight, so how does this make any difference? The only thing it *could* make a difference with is if you had to have a general anaesthetic. I know when I was overweight (but I was morbidly obese according to the medical community, such a lovely term) and had to have a wisdom tooth removed they were reluctant to use a GA because of my weight, but I didn't want one anyway. So if you had to be put under for that, depending on your weight they may not want to as it isn't something in their eyes that needs to be done immediately. Other than that though, I don't see how weight affects it. Push them, make a complaint if you have to but don't give up.

I understand the pressure on you, I have issues and I don't believe my husband does, it seems to be all my end. It's incredibly frustrating. I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum to you I guess, in that we can conceived and I ovulate but we can't keep hold of the pregnancies each time. I think it may have something to do with the fact I suffered with anorexia. I didn't think it would have this impact but it's the only reason I can think of. And it means it's my fault. I did that to myself. So I understand to a degree what you're saying.
You WILL get there though. You are managing to ovulate sometimes, which is a start, and there are supplements you can use to help. Have you thought about acupuncture?

Just to edit to say, I wasn't saying you did this to yourself. I don't want you to think that's what I meant by that. I just mean I can relate to the pressure being all on you

 

[Nataliieexo]

No I totally understood where you were coming from. It could possibly be my fault I’ve always suffered with binge eating, from being a young teenager, I never really acknowledged it until after my son was born though. I do have periods of time where I eat completely normal which is how I managed to maintain my weight at a steady level before my son was born, I guess having my own house etc made it’s easier for me to continue doing it and I don’t seem to come out of it anymore unless I diet. I think a starting point for me at the minute would be to make some lifestyle and food changes rather than a diet to start with. Usually I just dive right in to dieting. I have approximately 4 stone to reach the weight they will allow you to use clomid.

I’m definitely going to be making a appointment with the Drs again and I will make a complaint if they are dismissive again.

I haven’t thought about acupuncture but I will look it up, I haven’t actually heard of anyone around here using it so I don’t know if there is somewhere near by that does it, I will look into it.
I know that soy is on my list of things that do work, well except for last cycle. I am due to receive Vitex on Tuesday so I will think about what I’m going to do about that. I also have 3 months of the pill which I have thought about so many times putting myself on for 3 months to see if it will help. This pill has no breaks though and I’ve only ever used the ones with breaks so I’m not sure if it would have much effect. I concieved my son after 3 cycles on the pill but I’m thinking this time it won’t be as simple. I’m currently fighting the worst af cramp at the moment yesterday my bleeding tapered of into spotting and then this morning back to light flow. Over the past year I tend to get my cramp on the days I spot and have light bleeding as aposed to what I do when it’s heavy. Before my son it was just the first day af started. Everything is very different to how it was pre pregnancy.

I’m sorry about your losses too, have you spoken to anyone to look into why it is happening? I do hope you get your sticky baby soon.

 

[happycupcake]

It isn't your fault. We do things for many reasons and it isn't as easy as have some self control. Do you know why you binge? For me restricting food was the only part of my life I could control which made me feel less anxious.
I used to be really overweight though, and found Slimming World a huge help, I don't know if you have looked into it? I know bingeing isn't a good habit to stay in and ideally you want to break that, but you have to do that at your own pace, so something like Slimming World where it isn't a diet, it's just eating healthily, allows you to still eat a lot of certain things if you want to, but perhaps over time you can start to gain control over it more. I used to do a similar thing, and would eat huge quantities of things like chocolate, the group helped me avoid this and stay on track.
You could make things like soup which is usually low in calories but really healthy, you can pack it out with a variety of super healthy foods and it won't matter if you eat lots of it. I find it's one of the most versatile healthy foods around.
With Slimming World I lost about three and a half stone with them quite quickly. You can plateau sometimes but you just have to switch things around a little to kickstart your weight loss again.

To be honest I'm not really a huge advocate of using synthetic hormones to try to help sort your body out, I think it just confuses things more so. You need a good balance of things naturally in an ideal world. If your lp is short and your temps don't sustain themselves for long then it seems to me you need to focus on balancing progesterone first. You could be low on oestrogen whilst still being oestrogen dominant, though, so you may find if you increase progesterone levels you still have to increase oestrogen but perhaps try one thing at a time. There are foods you can use to try to increase progesterone, a Google search will give you plenty of ideas.
I would think you have an acupuncturist close by, but make sure they have experience in treating fertility and also pregnant women because not all do, and should you get pregnant whilst having treatment you don't want them working on any points which could potentially harm the pregnancy. It was really helpful to me with anxiety and I was off my meds for two and a half years after having a few sessions, and I also hear it's amazing for fertility too.

Definitely push your doctor, they should be looking into things more anyway, and they should be offering you help regarding losing weight if they're demanding this. But nonetheless they should be doing some checks on things because I can't see how weight affects many of them. I hope you get somewhere with them!

We have been referred to a fertility clinic but soonest appointment is May. I've had bloods done and progesterone levels checked and all appears fine although I may ask for these to be redone to make sure. I had a pelvic scan which showed my lining was too thin but no obvious cause as to why. I also had a polyp remove itself cycle before last and these can interfere with implantation. The sonographer said they act like an IUD, so this was probably causing quite a few issues

 

[Nataliieexo]

Sorry it’s taken me so long to reply, I took a step back for a little while. I did decide to give Vitex a try and I had peak on my Clearblue digi ovulation test 2 days ago and a positive opk the same day. My temp rises a small amount today, I get the feeling that I haven’t ovulated I did have stabbing pains on my right side yesterday. Who knows we’ll see over the next few days.

Usually the start of a binge is when something goes wrong or I get bad news even if I’m on a diet if I there’s bad news I think I deserve to eat what I want and it turns into binging. I’m currently seeking help via councilling for other things and I am hoping we can explore why I binge eat too.
I’m starting to think about dieting sometime very soon I want to make sure I have the right kind of foods in the house etc.

I hope you manage to have success before your due to the fertility clinic.
I had issues with my lining last year on cd19 I was still spotting and my lining was thick I was having trouble shedding my lining and had to take 3 rounds of provera to shed the whole thing. It was a horrible experience. Sometimes I still spot for a while after my period and before my period but it is better than what it used to be at least.

 

[happycupcake]

Did you think perhaps the very act of dieting itself could be a trigger? Perhaps just adopting healthier eating generally would be more helpful, without being too strict with yourself?

The positive OPKs and pains are a good sign, hopefully you will see ovulation soon

Thanks, I hope so too. Yeah I heard too thick lining can cause issues too. Why can't our bodies just behave themselves

 

[Nataliieexo]

Yes I think dieting may be too much pressure for me. I have had success with counting calories a few times but as soon as my weight loss starts to stall I slip back. For the amount of times I have dieted if I had just continued I could be much healthier and happier with my body by now.
I think I will start changing my life style, smaller portions and slowly cutting out bad stuff for a start. I’ve actually been advised to slowly cut one thing out of my diet for a period of time to see if I can work out what triggers my ibs as it is becoming problematic and having a great impact on my life.

I do hope I ovulate but I’ve been known to gear up and fail to ovulate a few times per cycle.

It would be great if they would behave, it’s so hard when your body doesn’t co-operate and causes added stress.

 

[happycupcake]

I agree with cutting one thing out at a time to see if things improve. The other way to do it is to cut out the most obvious triggers like wheat for instance, and see if that helps. After a while if you gradually reintroduce it and your symptoms start up then you know that's something to avoid. My brother had to do all this because he developed allergies so these days he is vegan, wheat free, yeast free, and goodness knows how many other things free.
Most of it isn't that hard to do, as you can easily make tasty food still, but some things are missed and that's hard but it's the lesser of two evils when you think about what you go through with an IBS flare up.
You could try Slimming World? They're not so much about the dieting, more healthy eating. I successfully lost lots of weight with them and it was actually much easier than I thought it would be and I didn't miss things as much as I thought. You can still have things like chocolate (which is my thing) but in moderation. What I did was completely cut those things out for a while first and then I found I was much happier to only eat small quantities of those things. Everyone's different though.

Diet can be the cause of many issues though, so if your IBS is playing up to the extent it's interfering with general life then it could easily be having an impact on things like ovulation too. If you can work on that in a way that doesn't trigger your urge to binge, you may find the way to fixing everything else.

Oh, and I don't know if this is common knowledge but it surprised me to read that anything in the nightshade family (peppers for example) can be triggers for IBS too

 

[Nataliieexo]

I have thought about slimming world so many times, two of my friends did it but they didn’t have much success with it which put me off a bit. But I’ve been thinking about it more and I think at least try it. Yes chocolate is also my thing, when counting calories I always managed to fit chocolate even if it meant extra time on my exercise bike to burn the calories to eat chocolate. I definitely think I need to get the healthy lifestyle rather than diet to have more success.

My temps don’t indicate ovulation, which is annoying but not the first time I’ve geared up and nothing happens. It seems like my body needs the extra push to ovulate. Like the soy isoflavones seemed to do for a few cycles. I don’t know why my body just can’t co operate with me.

 

[happycupcake]

Some don't have success but that doesn't mean you won't. The vast majority who do it have success. You can and do tend to plateau at some point but you just have to change things about a little and this kickstarts things back off. The groups are an amazing support if it's your thing, if not then you can do it online instead. At the end of the day, if you join and decide after a few weeks you don't want to keep attending, you still have the books to work from if you prefer to do the plan at home.
I think sometimes people get confused with the plan because it is a lot to take in initially, perhaps this is where some don't find success, if they don't understand it but think they're doing it right. I don't know, but it's worth trying I think as it really lessens the pressure of the whole diet thing. Plus, you can do it pregnant, breastfeeding, and it's something the whole family can do with you too because it's really friendly and not restrictive.

If the soy worked for you before perhaps you could try it again? I have read many success stories from soy. So many it convinced me to try it this cycle. I ovulate regularly but I wanted to increase chances of a healthier more mature egg and hopefully help thicken my lining more

 

[Nataliieexo]

I used soy for I think 6 cycles and ovulated 4/6 of the cycles. On the last cycle I didn’t ovulate at all and my cycle was 80+ days. I had read that you aren’t supposed to use soy for longer than 3 cycles and I went 3 cycles longer than I already should. So I figured I would take a break for a few cycles before returning to soy again.
Although since reading the info about not using soy for longer than 3 cycles I can’t seem to find the info again.

Fingers crossed that soy works for you. Since I’m not a regular ovulator my ovulation varied from each cycle on soy.

I do actually find slimming world confusing and I think that was something that put me off also. But I have seen so many success stories that sway me to try it. I’m also a terribly picky eater which doesn’t help.

 

[happycupcake]

I haven't read that before but it's worth researching some more on it. The last thing you want to do is confuse things more. What dose was you using?
Slimming World can be confusing but once you've been doing it a couple of weeks it's easy and just becomes second nature. I think you can go along to a group for free to see what it's like before paying anything. If you don't like it then you don't have to join, that's what they always used to do anyway. I was sold when I went to my first group though. I'm not a social person but the atmosphere there was so positive and full of good humour that that alone made me want to go back. There's always someone to help with any questions too. There may be a thread on here somewhere on SW?

 

[Nataliieexo]

I have never ever had regular periods apart from the 3 cycles off the pill when my son was concieved. I lost count how many times I went to the dr when I was younger over not having periods for 3 months and just told to use the pill or depo injection. I probably didn’t ovulate then obviously I wasn’t checking back then though so there’s no way to say. Conceiving twice straight after the pill is something that’s always at the back of my mind but in the 3 years we have been ttc I haven’t dared try using the pill for 3 months and then coming off like I did back then incase it only makes the situation worse.

 

[happycupcake]

There are things like that you can do. The thing with the pill is they're synthetic hormones which personally I'm not a fan of. I have heard that using progesterone for a certain time and then stopping it can induce ovulation but I don't know enough about that to really advise properly. I imagine it's similar to using the pill for that purpose but you're using bio-identical hormones instead

 

[Nataliieexo]

I was using 120mg for 2 days 160mg for 2 days then 200mg for 1 day. But the last 2 cycles I used I did 200mg per day. I felt very positive about those cycles until I realised my lp was only 9-11 days long.

Im not a social person either I’m very shy. Having a good atmosphere would definitely help. I will look for the thread. I also follow a slimming world at home group aswell and a lot of people have success doing slimming world from home aswell.

 

[happycupcake]

It sounds as if perhaps you increased oestrogen too much taking 200mg daily for five days. That was probably the cause of your shortened lp, mild oestrogen dominance possibly. It's really important to find the right balance and that can be hard to do. If you do use soy again, it may be worth using progesterone cream during your lp to make sure the soy doesn't cause you to produce too much oestrogen which can then deplete your natural progesterone. But, I'm not an expert! It just seems like a logical explanation to me since soy increases oestrogen by tricking your body into thinking it isn't making enough.
I think although many have success at home with SW, more do at groups because of the support and encouragement. They're generally really friendly and welcoming. The only time I had an issue was when I had lost weight and had just had DD and wanted to lose a stone, so I wasn't overweight and this caused some members to make some comments about why am I there, which made me uncomfortable! But that was one group. The others I had been to previously were fab