Vaccinating your child

[kanga]

https://violentmetaphors.com/2014/03/25/parents-you-are-being-lied-to/

An interesting read.

 

[Foogirl]

I've seen this a few times on Facebook. I love the quote saying the good thing about science is, it's true whether you believe in it or not.

 

[JessPape]

There are some things I agree with and something I don't agree with from this webpage.... I wont get in to what pieces.

All I will say, as a vaccinating parent. I think its the parents choice, and whether a parent decides to vaccinate their child or not is none of our business.

 

[Foogirl]

I totally agree. And in the end, that's what this piece is about. Making and informed choice, reading all the right things rather than all the wrong things.

 

[Noodlebear]

I saw this article a couple of days ago, it's brilliant. Although I feel slightly differently to the posters above me, eg - if I had an imunocompromised child who couldn't be vaccinated and said child fell ill because someone else made a misinformed decision and didn't vaccinate their children I would be a force to be reckoned with This is what always pops into my mind when this topic comes up. If you don't vaccinate it's everyone's business.

 

[Leeloo]

The evidence they cite to support vaccination is correlation but not causation. There are studies out there that suggest vaccination is correlated in the decline of those diseases but there aren't any causation factors. One could just as easily say that the increased consumption of pesticides is correlated with a decrease in those diseases.

There's a lot of bad science out there. To say that "science" is true whether one believes it or not is akin to blind faith. The work of scientists, aka "science," needs to be discerned and their work needs to be critically analyzed; and I'm talking at the molecular level. For example there was a paper published recently and the scientist said that they showed that stress granules were not produced by a certain mechanism (stress granules are implicated in deleterious effects to cells during viral infection). The problem with the entire paper was the scientist never tagged RNA in the bodies that he cited as stress granules. Now we understand why he didn't, you can only use so many tags because the microscopes cannot discern so many fluorescent signals and he was already tagging many other molecules, but tagging RNA was pretty important. You cannot have a stress granule unless you know you have RNA in it. Seems simple but the reviewers over-looked it and the paper was published. That is science. And in effect his paper is not true because it's based on assumption that what he showed were actually stress granules. But it is over looked and other people can now cite his paper for their papers.

This is not an exception in science. Scientists regularly turn out papers like this. I did not read one paper in my labs that my professor did not point out many mistakes, or assumptions. Epidemiological studies, done for vaccination, are particularly prone to error. It's widely joked that epidemology is the whore of science; throw enough money at it and you can get it to do whatever you want. If you cannot discern these mistakes then you simply have faith in something you don't understand.

 

[melfy77]

Couldn't agree more!!

I'm very pro vaccination, and think that not vaccinating your child is a very selfish thing to do, because it's not only a matter of putting your child at risk, but also other's children at risk. Read an article a few weeks ago about young babies dying of whooping cough (younger than 2 months so didn't have enough time to get their shots) because some parents decided not to get their kids vaccinated. Sure their kids were fine...they just killed other people's kids Sure accidents can happen and sometimes vaccines are not effective (I was vaccinated against german measles as a kid but when I got my bloodwork done when I was expecting DD1 it showed I was not immune). I know many people won't agree with me, but again...it's a matter of choice...unfortunately.

 

[Pink Petals]

When other parents choose not to vaccinate, it is my business. My LO cannot be vaccinated for MMR until 12 months and he is put at risk. My best friend in the whole world had a compromised immune system and was therefore at risk (she died at the age of 24). When it comes to the lives of my loved ones being put at risk because of other people's stupidity, it is my business. Period.

 

[clever_blond]

I read this the other day and couldnt agree more. Also agree with the pp who said other people choosing not to vaccinate is my business as it could directly affect my children who cannot be vaccinated.

For those that say that vaccines do not cause a decline in disease, look at India. 5 yrs ago India was home to half the worlds cases of Polio. Due to a widespread vaccination campaign involving thousands of volunteer vaccinaters they havent had a diagnosed case in over 3 years. If that doesnt show the effectiveness of vaccines I don't know what does.

 

[HKateH]

I don't judge much when it comes to other people's parenting but the anti vax stance is one I cannot find it in myself to empathise with. It's misinformed, paranoid and selfish. I like to think I'm pretty open minded but choosing not to vaccinate is a deal breaker for me.

 

[kit10grl]

My child is immunecompromised so it is my business whether those around her are vaccinated. Measles and chicken pox could kill my child but the vaccines for those are live so she can't have them. We are currently undergoing tests g in an immunology clinic to check and see if she can have them in the future. So at almost 2 She is unprotected against things her brother is likely to bring home from nursery. The trend of not vaccinating terrifies me. If you can you should to protect those who can't. That said though it is a parents right to choose andi would support that I just would avoid taking my child round their if at all possible

 

[HKateH]

Except I don't think it should be a choice. I think children who can be vaccinated should be in order to be able to attend nursery and school. It's not just other children who are at risk but chemotherapy patients, HIV sufferers, pregnant women and the elderly to name just a few.

 

[sue_88]

Except I don't think it should be a choice. I think children who can be vaccinated should be in order to be able to attend nursery and school. It's not just other children who are at risk but chemotherapy patients, HIV sufferers, pregnant women and the elderly to name just a few.

I was just about to post the same thing, I think in the past I've made my feelings very clear on the anti-vax bullshit.

It should not be a choice, and I do not support a parents right to choose not to vaccinate a healthy child. It's selfish pigheaded-ness backed up by eff all.

My LOs nursery will not take any unvaxxed children, it's not even the best nursery in the village (there are two) but I refuse to take her to a nursery that supports no vaxxed children, they should be separated because of the parents dangerous and ridiculous choice.

 

[irish_cob]

But it's not as straightforward as vaccinated = immune = safe which is what more and more research is showing. This for example:

https://news.sciencemag.org/health/...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

And before anyone jumps on me both my kids are fully vaxxed but let's say I'm still a bit of a sceptic about the effectiveness of vax, more and more research is showing that vaccination is not infallible and it's no longer that crystal clear that vax=safe and unvaccinated = dangerous. There are definite shades of grey. It may even be vaxed children who spread the diseases more than unvaxed.

 

[Pink Petals]

Except I don't think it should be a choice. I think children who can be vaccinated should be in order to be able to attend nursery and school. It's not just other children who are at risk but chemotherapy patients, HIV sufferers, pregnant women and the elderly to name just a few.

I was just about to post the same thing, I think in the past I've made my feelings very clear on the anti-vax bullshit.

It should not be a choice, and I do not support a parents right to choose not to vaccinate a healthy child. It's selfish pigheaded-ness backed up by eff all.

My LOs nursery will not take any unvaxxed children, it's not even the best nursery in the village (there are two) but I refuse to take her to a nursery that supports no vaxxed children, they should be separated because of the parents dangerous and ridiculous choice.

This. And it shouldn't end at nurseries... Schools, sports teams, dance academies, indoor playgrounds, swimming pools, etc etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if things start going that direction if the outbreaks continue.

 

[wookie130]

When other parents choose not to vaccinate, it is my business. My LO cannot be vaccinated for MMR until 12 months and he is put at risk. My best friend in the whole world had a compromised immune system and was therefore at risk (she died at the age of 24). When it comes to the lives of my loved ones being put at risk because of other people's stupidity, it is my business. Period.

Amen, sister.

I am aalllllllll about herd immunity.

Not to mention the whole anti-vax debate is SUCH a first world problem. Do you think mothers and families in South Africa and in other less-developed areas of the world trust kale smoothies and hand-washing to protect their little ones? Ummm, no, because their children are dying, and without the availability of vaccines, they are helpless and vunerable to any number of issues. A lot of these women and families would do ANYTHING to keep their child from dying before the age of 6, from any of the horrible diseases and illnesses that we barely see in our neck of the woods anymore, BECAUSE of the effectiveness of vaccines.

To me, it really is a no-brainer.

 

[staralfur]

But it's not as straightforward as vaccinated = immune = safe which is what more and more research is showing. This for example:

https://news.sciencemag.org/health/...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

And before anyone jumps on me both my kids are fully vaxxed but let's say I'm still a bit of a sceptic about the effectiveness of vax, more and more research is showing that vaccination is not infallible and it's no longer that crystal clear that vax=safe and unvaccinated = dangerous. There are definite shades of grey. It may even be vaxed children who spread the diseases more than unvaxed.

This article pretty much just reaffirms why vaccinating is so important. It's never been thought that vaccination is infallible; professionals have long been aware of "vaccine failures" and waning immunity. As you see these diseases coming back, you'll see people who are vaccinated get sick. That doesn't mean that vaccines don't work, it means that vaccines don't work 100% of the time. Again, this is not new information and no one has ever claimed that by getting a vaccination you are guaranteed complete immunity. That is the hope, and in most cases is the reality, but it is no guarantee. The problem is that in a lot of places, herd immunity is virtually non-existent due to low vaccination rates. These diseases are highly, highly contagious and so of course those who have unfortunately not received protection through vaccination are going to catch it if they come into contact with it.

 

[megrenade]

I don't think of myself as being selfish for holding off on vaccinating my children until they are closer to school age.

I'm not ANTI-vax, but I am cautious.

My sister's MMR gave her over a 104 degree fever for a week. It caused major brain damage and she was later diagnosed with autism.

Our WELL-KNOWN and HIGHLY RECOMMENDED pediatrician, recommended that due to a VACCINE INJURY in my family, that I hold off on vaccinating my children.

Vaccinated children can spread illness just as easily as non-vaccinated. Obviously if my child got mumps or measles or something of that sort, I keep them HOME. I think most of us who do selective/delayed vaccines aren't THAT inconsiderate, to take our sick children out and expose others.

As an American, I am entitled to having my freedom to vaccinate or not. I don't believe I should be forced to inject my child with over 48 doses of toxic crap (engineered in China) within the first few years of their life.

As I said before, I'm not anti-vax. But I'm not following their stupid bullshit guidelines and risking my child getting brain damage to avoid illnesses that aren't widespread anymore (yes, due to most of the population being vaccinated).

I've done my research and I've seen first hand, the effects that vaccines CAN have.

I keep my kids home. They don't go to daycare. Obviously if there was some disease that was becoming widespread in my area, I'd go get my kids vaccinated for it.. but, the effectiveness isn't even really worth it.. most of them wear off and NEVER FULLY 100% PROTECT YOU.

Vaccinated or not, kids get sniffles, coughs, stomach bugs, etc. So I think it's unfair to treat unvaccinated children (or ones who are on a selective or delated schedule) like they are carrying the fucking plague.

 

[supertabby]

If you choose to do CIO or not - none of my business
If you use cloth nappies or disposable - none of my business
If you use timeouts or distraction or any other disciplinary approach - none of my business
If you ERF or turn your child around asap - none of my business
If you home school or private school or state school - none of my business
If you vaccinate or not - EVERYONE'S BUSINESS

Herd immunity is an essential part of vaccination for all of us. It's even more important for the vulnerable immunocompromised members of our population. Building some imaginary conspiracy theory around the scientific evidence presented forward for vaccination effectiveness and safety is so incredibly dangerous to your own children and the people around you. My cousin's daughter is unable to be vaccinated herself as she was born with heart problems, she relies on herd immunity to protect her from potentially FATAL illnesses and it makes me so mad that people put her life at risk because of some stupid fad.

 

[sue_88]

I don't think of myself as being selfish for holding off on vaccinating my children until they are closer to school age.

I'm not ANTI-vax, but I am cautious.

My sister's MMR gave her over a 104 degree fever for a week. It caused major brain damage and she was later diagnosed with autism.

Our WELL-KNOWN and HIGHLY RECOMMENDED pediatrician, recommended that due to a VACCINE INJURY in my family, that I hold off on vaccinating my children.

Vaccinated children can spread illness just as easily as non-vaccinated. Obviously if my child got mumps or measles or something of that sort, I keep them HOME. I think most of us who do selective/delayed vaccines aren't THAT inconsiderate, to take our sick children out and expose others.

As an American, I am entitled to having my freedom to vaccinate or not. I don't believe I should be forced to inject my child with over 48 doses of toxic crap (engineered in China) within the first few years of their life.

As I said before, I'm not anti-vax. But I'm not following their stupid bullshit guidelines and risking my child getting brain damage to avoid illnesses that aren't widespread anymore (yes, due to most of the population being vaccinated).

I've done my research and I've seen first hand, the effects that vaccines CAN have.

I keep my kids home. They don't go to daycare. Obviously if there was some disease that was becoming widespread in my area, I'd go get my kids vaccinated for it.. but, the effectiveness isn't even really worth it.. most of them wear off and NEVER FULLY 100% PROTECT YOU.

Vaccinated or not, kids get sniffles, coughs, stomach bugs, etc. So I think it's unfair to treat unvaccinated children (or ones who are on a selective or delated schedule) like they are carrying the fucking plague.

Last time I checked, the 'sniffles' wasn't a killer like whopping cough, and a stomach bug not a nasty disease like Meningitis C that killed my innumocompromised uncle.

My friends baby caught meningitis over Christmas, he was so very sick but he'd been vaccinated and recovered. My uncle, unvaccinated, died. There's all the evidence I need that vaccines are lifesavers.

If your unvaxxed kid gets Men C, you better pray to the moon and back they'll live but I would put a bet on it. It strikes from no where, with no warning. Why you'd risk death, I have no idea