Faith Schools vs. State Schools

[Lightworker]

Hi all,

This morning there was a debate on BBC1 about the difference in education, and the long term impact of faith schools vs state schools. What are your feelings on the different types of schools?

Where I live, most faith schools fall in the top half of academic performance. Their Ofsted reports are either Good or Outstanding. Some statistics show that people who go to faith schools generally have better employment prospects.

However, some argue that faith schools by their very nature are discrimnatory. Not only along faith lines, but also they tend to be located in middle-class affluent areas, and therefore are not as accessible to people from deprived backgrounds.

What do you think? What will you do or have you done for your children?

 

[Rhi_Rhi1]

The best school in my town is a catholic faith school, (its a primary) and i will shamefully admit i did consider having my LO baptised so he could attend, if he had been we would of got in, we live on the same street as it, and the church it is connected with, but i ended up feeling like a big turd lol,(i decided i couldn't go through with the lie) and never bothered, we managed to get him into a good school but i now have to walk to the other side of town to get there everyday which yes does annoy me a tad. Statistically this school is the best performing in town but something that did stick out to me was the VERY low free school meal percentage, so i suppose that would hint towards a more middle class group of students?

Edit to add: the school/church its self however is in a very "normal" working class area, but ALOT of the students (so i hear) do come from the surrounding villages to my town.

 

[alaskagrown]

I grew up going through the public school system in my town, but I worked at the Catholic school for a couple of years when I got out of high school. They seemed very ahead in some subjects, and a tad behind in other subjects. Also, the grades were combined (K/1, 2/3, 4/5, etc.) and the classrooms could be very crowded. Overall, I thought it was a pretty nice school though. I think they scored on par or slightly higher than the public schools when it came to standardized exams.
The school I worked at was not discriminatory when it came to faith. They hired me, an Episcopalian, to work there. They also had a high number of students who were Russian Orthodox.
As far as being located in more affluent neighborhoods, I think they need to be otherwise they wouldn't survive. Faith schools depend on tuition fees, not the government and taxes, to keep their doors open. If they opened their doors in a very poor neighborhood not very many parents would send their kids there because they simply can't afford to. Some may go out on a limb to...but certainly not enough tuition money would be brought in to pay decent teachers, buy new computers, etc. It's survival!

 

[Lightworker]

Alaska- in the UK for the most part, both state and faith schools are free, so it wouldn't really matter, for the purposes of tuition fees whether or not they were in an affluent area..but I can see it from the point of view of the administration of the Church etc, they still rely on money from the congregation so perhaps it makes sense that they are generally based in affluent areas.

Interesting to note that faith schools where you are are fee-paying. I went to a Catholic school and it was also fee-paying as well.

 

[discoclare]

Well I live in London where there are a lot of faith (funded by state) schools and they are not necessarily in affluent areas at all. I don't see a huge different in the academic achievements of the faith vs non-faith in this part of London (I do see your point that this is not in keeping with much of the rest of the UK). However, the faith schools are VERY discriminatory in the main about only taking children of that faith first, usually leaving no places for children of other faiths. This leaves myself (an atheist) with a huge problem in that I only have about half the numbers of schools available to me of those state schools in the area.

I pay my taxes the same as practicing Christians / Muslims / Jewish people do and I don't see why I should be offered less choice in state funded schools than they are. In principle I don't believe that any state funded school should be a faith school. All state funded schools should be available to children of any faith or no faith, but of course the national curriculum shoudl require teaching of the basics of all the major faiths as part of standard religious education. Parents who want their children to received a more Christian (for example) type of education should either be prepared to pay for a private education or send them to Sunday school.

 

[smelly07]

In my town, there is no difference between faith schools and states schools progress at all, The schools vary from ofstead inspections from unsatisfactory to outstanding.
what makes a difference is the areas, the not so good areas tend to have not so good schools.

Luckily in my area the school my daughter goes to has an outstanding ofstead report the last two times it has been inspected and has been given an award now cant remember the name but its a fantastic acheivement for the school and we were just lucky to have this school as our local catchment area.

 

[freckleonear]

Faith schools are achieving good results and having a positive effect, so I don't really see why they could be a problem. There might not be enough of them for all areas to benefit, but that doesn't mean that nobody should benefit from them. I can see how it might be annoying that your child would not be eligible for all the state schools in your area, but if the faith schools weren't there then there would just be fewer schools.

I would love to send my children to a reformed evangelical Christian school, but there aren't any near me and I would be quite fussy about the school's beliefs and ethos.

 

[summer rain]

Most Muslim schools, despite what the Daily Mail claims, and regardless of if they are state or private do accept quite a large percentage of pupils from other faiths, however only a teeny handful of Muslim schools are state schools and the majority of non-Muslims are not keen to pay for their children to attend a Muslim school for whatever reason. Most Muslim schools do not have an ethos we would agree with so this is one reason why we homeschool xx

 

[JASMAK]

Catholic schools here are private and cost money, but would love to send my child to one, however, there is only one in my city and I wouldn't send them there, because it is Christian, not Catholic. Our education system has gone in the shitter lately as the teachers refused to write report cards, no comments on the one we finally did receive, and now they have withdrawn all volunteer work...meaning no sports, field trips, communication with parents. Makes me want to pay out of pocket, but there is no way I would have enough, and like I said, my kids would have to travel an hour and half each way as there is no Catholic school in my city.

 

[discoclare]

Faith schools are achieving good results and having a positive effect, so I don't really see why they could be a problem. There might not be enough of them for all areas to benefit, but that doesn't mean that nobody should benefit from them. I can see how it might be annoying that your child would not be eligible for all the state schools in your area, but if the faith schools weren't there then there would just be fewer schools.

I would love to send my children to a reformed evangelical Christian school, but there aren't any near me and I would be quite fussy about the school's beliefs and ethos.

Sure, perhaps there would be fewer schools but there would be twice the number of places available in them. At the moment about half of the places where I am are in the faith schools and there is already a huge shortage of primary school places in our borough.

I am annoyed, but this is about more than just me and my family. My feelings go back to before I lived in this area (or London even). I don't think primary school children should be in schools with a particular religious ethos. Perhaps you could make the arguement for faith schools in secondary education when children are older and have had an opportunity to fully commit to a particular faith, but even then I wouldn't be in favour. I think that we live in multi-cultural and multi-faith society and that schools should support our diversity without subscribing to one particular faith.

 

[deafgal]

in the U.S. it is often true. State schools try their best to promote diversity. faith private school is usually affordable for those who have money. And sometimes they do take in charities for those who can't

 

[deafgal]

Well I live in London where there are a lot of faith (funded by state) schools and they are not necessarily in affluent areas at all. I don't see a huge different in the academic achievements of the faith vs non-faith in this part of London (I do see your point that this is not in keeping with much of the rest of the UK). However, the faith schools are VERY discriminatory in the main about only taking children of that faith first, usually leaving no places for children of other faiths. This leaves myself (an atheist) with a huge problem in that I only have about half the numbers of schools available to me of those state schools in the area.

I pay my taxes the same as practicing Christians / Muslims / Jewish people do and I don't see why I should be offered less choice in state funded schools than they are. In principle I don't believe that any state funded school should be a faith school. All state funded schools should be available to children of any faith or no faith, but of course the national curriculum shoudl require teaching of the basics of all the major faiths as part of standard religious education. Parents who want their children to received a more Christian (for example) type of education should either be prepared to pay for a private education or send them to Sunday school.

that's why public schools work the way it does in the U.S. they will not promote any religion for the fairness of taxpayers. Those who want religion in their child's education will have to pay for their schooling. some of these religion private school will ask the students to leave the school if they are no longer of that religion (or hostile toward it) or if you are gay or lesbian. which is why it is a good idea to keep the taxpayers money out of it (they shouldn't have to pay money where they are not allow to go based on beliefs)

 

[ahcigar1]

I have no issue with faith schools. And there is a reason that they rank higher than state schools. Its because they don't put up with any BS from students, if you don't get a certain GPA then they kick you out after a first warning, and their education is top knotch. And as far as poorer families not having the opportunity. The ones that I have known can apply. Many of the schools have scholarships, financing, deductions, etc.

My nephew is going to the highest ranked in the state currently and is thriving. Only in 7th grade and already has taken ACT and SAT twice and both times has ranked very high. On top of that he currently already has some of the best universities in the country looking at him. Such as Duke, Harvard, Columbia, and Yale. He makes straight A's, all advanced classes, and works his butt off for it. My other nephew will be starting next school year in the 5th grade. Thier parents can't afford the full tuition for 2 students so the school looked at their income and have cut it in half for each. But they still work hard. My brother works 70-80 hours a week as a full time firefighter and volunteer at another department, and also his own business in construction while his wife works another 40 hours. They do this JUST so my nephews can have the best education possible.

So there are opportunities for everyone, it is up to the parents though of how hard they want to work for it. And many of these schools do have financial help or deductions.

I plan on starting my LO from preschool in this same school. Hubby and I are already saving up now for it, as well as not being able to go out to eat as much or little things like that. But at the same time we want the absolute best for our LO, so have no problem making a few sacrifices for her best interests.

 

[vaniilla]

my opinion has always been that religious schools should exist but that they should not be government funded in any way, I don't personally agree with faith schools because I don't believe religion and education should mix, however the choice should be there but in the private sector, the state sector is for everyone and as such the schools should reflect this by not having a bias towards a specific religion regardless of their admissions.

 

[lozzy21]

The catholic primary schools in my area are on par with the state primary schools but the catholic secondary school (my school) gets better grades and better ofsted reports.

I don't see why I should have to pay to send my child to a faith school, making then private would only exclude even more people. Just do add non Catholics can still go to a catholic school, they just dont get priority.

 

[NewMummyx]

Faith schools are achieving good results and having a positive effect, so I don't really see why they could be a problem. There might not be enough of them for all areas to benefit, but that doesn't mean that nobody should benefit from them. I can see how it might be annoying that your child would not be eligible for all the state schools in your area, but if the faith schools weren't there then there would just be fewer schools.

I would love to send my children to a reformed evangelical Christian school, but there aren't any near me and I would be quite fussy about the school's beliefs and ethos.

Sure, perhaps there would be fewer schools but there would be twice the number of places available in them. At the moment about half of the places where I am are in the faith schools and there is already a huge shortage of primary school places in our borough.

I am annoyed, but this is about more than just me and my family. My feelings go back to before I lived in this area (or London even). I don't think primary school children should be in schools with a particular religious ethos. Perhaps you could make the arguement for faith schools in secondary education when children are older and have had an opportunity to fully commit to a particular faith, but even then I wouldn't be in favour. I think that we live in multi-cultural and multi-faith society and that schools should support our diversity without subscribing to one particular faith.

What's wrong with embracing one's faith? The school system DOES support diversity by giving parents the option to send them to a faith or non faith school imo.

My LO will go to a local catholic school which has great reviews, as does the secondary i want him to go to.
I also live in one of the poorest areas of Glasgow so there is no middle class arguement here.
Jews/Muslims/Catholics pay their taxes like everyone else so i think its only fair the faith schools are also supported.

 

[deafgal]

In U.S. faith is always changing, and there is so many religions! you have southern baptists, independent baptists, catholic, lutheran, methodists, on and on. they don't always agree with each other. It would be expensive to keep adding faith schools to keep up with the ever evolving religions (religions that keep branching off of other religions and forming a new beliefs). Didn't that's what King Henry did? He helped establish the Anglican Church.