Just a general query - why do student nurses get a bursary but not teachers?

[loeylo]

There is no real reason for me asking this other than my own curiosity. I have been wondering this since starting my degree and I am now fully qualified and have been in the job for 18 months. I read a thread in here and it reminded me of it and I still don't know the answer!

I had a few friends doing nursing/midwifery and a few more doing teaching. Both obviously included long placements over the length of the degrees. Midwife and nurses seemed to be working a shift pattern whereas teachers were obviously working during school time. Now, in comparison to the nurses, the teachers put in far more hours outside the classroom (planning,marking etc) and it wasn't possible for teachers to work at those times either, the same as it was impossible for nurses and midwives. What confused me is why the nurses were given a bursary to see them through their degree but teachers are not?

I'm just wondering if it is something to do with demand for places, or some other factor as I was thinking about maybe starting a petition on the issue as both are (as far as I am aware) government funded.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Abz1982]

You know what, I do have to say I wonder this as well, considering that we have a shortage of both...and in both cases they are expected to do some form of career centred work whilst studying.
You are more likely to find mature students going into nursing though, so some with kids etc.
I used to work in a uni doing the nursing admissions an every year we would have SO many drop out - AFTER they got their bursary, and so many getting pregnant (why they don't cover contraception in the first semester I dunno) But that was back when it was the diplomas as well as degrees

 

[hopeandpray]

Maybe it costs more to train nurses so they're more eager to have them not drop out? My sister did a year of paediatric nursing and left. Almost half her class dropped out within the first year. Maybe with a bursary they would have stayed (we're in Ireland and don't get one).

 

[Rainbow82]

Pgce students get a bursary if it's a shortage subject, the amount depends on the subject, maths, physics and chemistry get the most I think then languages and biology. Nurses and other nhs courses (physio etc) get less money spread over a three year degree because it would be difficult to work while doing placements because it's shift work and no holidays. Primary and non shortage secondary Pgce students don't get funded because there aren't enough jobs when they graduate. The lack if bursary for primary is why I did a secondary Pgce instead as there's no way I could afford to give up work and pay fees for the course. Also it's hard to find a job as a newly qualified primary teacher and many don't ever find a job as there are so many graduates in that area, I hope that's something that will start changing the next few years as more primary places are urgently needed.

 

[aimee-lou]

It's true not all get a bursary but most if they're entitled to help at undergrad level can apply for the same set of student loans at PGCE level. My hubby is currently doing a science PGCE. He did Undergrad directly before and we got full loans and grants through SFE so we now get full help from them during his PGCE too. OK, some of it we will have to pay back, but it's not like they'll be baying for blood and I personally think that the SFE loans etc are pretty generous. It's enough for him to live away etc and he also gets mileage and travel expenses for his placement too.

ETA: Biology never used to get anything....my hubby didn't get anything. First week of his course he found out that next academic year (i.e. from this september) they'll be getting 10K! To say he was annoyed is an understatement! lol

 

[loeylo]

I think it may be different in Scotland than in England in that case. All nursing students get a bursary, whereas teachers get nothing except standard student loans, which are income assessed. My loan totalled £350 per month, I paid £300 on accommodation (dreadful student flat!) and had to find everything else myself. We got to choose 5 local authorities for placements and could be placed in any - on more than one occasion I had a two hour commute in the depths of winter, which I had to find myself at a cost of £7/day, 7 days per week for 12 weeks. The other £50 of my loan which didn't go straight to paying my accommodation per month obviously nowhere near covered this and I was out of pocket by £100 per month pretty much throughout my placements.
Because I did the 4 year combined degree, I got my teaching qualification alongside my subject qualification and graduated as a subject specific teacher after 4 years. I had to do my placements during Uni holidays, so I lost out on a lot of time when I could work to save money. I ended up having to do my placements where I was literally putting in at least 50 hours per week, usually more, plus work on my two day off. All in all I was shattered and feel it is unfair that we didn't get a bursary to recognise that we had to put in a lot more hours than typical students. I was completely skint most f the time!

 

[Abz1982]

I think it may be different in Scotland than in England in that case. All nursing students get a bursary, whereas teachers get nothing except standard student loans, which are income assessed. My loan totalled £350 per month, I paid £300 on accommodation (dreadful student flat!) and had to find everything else myself. We got to choose 5 local authorities for placements and could be placed in any - on more than one occasion I had a two hour commute in the depths of winter, which I had to find myself at a cost of £7/day, 7 days per week for 12 weeks. The other £50 of my loan which didn't go straight to paying my accommodation per month obviously nowhere near covered this and I was out of pocket by £100 per month pretty much throughout my placements.
Because I did the 4 year combined degree, I got my teaching qualification alongside my subject qualification and graduated as a subject specific teacher after 4 years. I had to do my placements during Uni holidays, so I lost out on a lot of time when I could work to save money. I ended up having to do my placements where I was literally putting in at least 50 hours per week, usually more, plus work on my two day off. All in all I was shattered and feel it is unfair that we didn't get a bursary to recognise that we had to put in a lot more hours than typical students. I was completely skint most f the time!

See, THIS is why we have a teacher shortage! No wonder people don't want ot do it if they have to go through hoops to get it, and other degrees seem like cakewalks!

 

[loeylo]

That's the problem - in Scotland they take on so many teachers to teacher training courses (because the government pays our tuition fees so the Uni is getting money) that it is really difficult to get a job in certain subjects. They also have teachers who are retired and receiving a pension who are taking supply posts, making it impossible for younger teachers to get a job. Every repor I have ever received from a school has been excellent, yet I have been qualified for nearly two years and still don't have a permanent job because no one is taking on teachers on permanent contracts! I have been lucky that I have never been out of work and I have only had to work in three schools, but I have friends who have been working a few weeks here and there. Now the councils are claiming that "more teachers doesn't equal better teaching" so class sizes are going up. It's a good job I love my job or I would be out of it already!