Police action during protests

[Dopeyjopey]

Do you think kettling is acceptable?

Are the police good at judging trouble starting and containing it, or does the containment cause the violence?

 

[special_kala]

I didnt know what kettling was so found a definition for any other ladies like me

Kettling, also known as containment or corralling,[1] is a police tactic for the management of large crowds during demonstrations or protests. It involves the formation of large cordons of police officers who then move to contain a crowd within a limited area. Protesters are left only one choice of exit, determined by the police, or are completely prevented from leaving.

I think it is acceptable yes. Its a necessary evil i guess.

I would like to think the police are good at deciding how much force to use and what level of containment. They are well trained for it.

They need to protect the people and property around the rprotests and if that means containing them in one place then it is for the best. I know the vast majority of people at these protests are non violent people making a stand but there is a small percentage who use it as a excuse to act like complete yobs.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

I see your point, but at the G20 march a bystander was killed when he was knocked over by a policeman during kettling. Also, i know of many people who wanted to march yesterday but we're too scared because of the police tactics, not the groups that were going. I reckon if i got caught in a kettle for 2 hours i'd turn violent and i'm a pretty peaceful person!

 

[special_kala]

I see your point, but at the G20 march a bystander was killed when he was knocked over by a policeman during kettling. Also, i know of many people who wanted to march yesterday but we're too scared because of the police tactics, not the groups that were going. I reckon if i got caught in a kettle for 2 hours i'd turn violent and i'm a pretty peaceful person!

I am going to sound like such a bitch here and i dont mean to but i have seen the video of that man being pushed over and tbh whilst i think yes they did use a little to much force he was well aware that there was a masive line of police behind him and they were telling him to move on but he carried on strolling along with his hands in his pockets like he didnt give a crap they were there.

The police arnt there to be nice and friendly to you they are there to protect other people and themslves. The amount of police who get injured in these protests is horrible and i imagine they use whatever methods they know work most effectively.

Ive seen another video of a woman apparently being mistreated by the police in these protests but in that one you can also clearly see her goading the police on and acting aggressive towards them so they used force to make her stop and she screamed about her "rights" but what about the polices rights?

 

[Dopeyjopey]

But the police are meant to protect people - all people. I certainly wouldn't feel protected if i was enclosed with a group of violent people!

Interestingly, kettling was invented by the Nazis and brought to the UK by Thatcher.

 

[special_kala]

but the people who needed to live and work around the protests would feel safer knowing that it was contained.

Put yourself in a policeman shoes surrounded by hundreds of people. Some of them screaming and shouting "pig" "scum" "die" and god knows what else. All pushing towards you. some with sticks or bottles. If one person gets out of line they need to contain it because other wise it causes a ripple effect.

Kettling might be a very barbaric way of doing things but if it works then it needs to be done.

What else could the police do? If they didnt show a united front and have a strong line then they would be picked off one by one and targeted by the small percentage of people who turn protests into riots

 

[Lightworker]

I am a fan of protests (peaceful ones a la Gandhi) but I think balance needs to be drawn. Some people use them as a platform to vent their own frustrations etc and thats when they turn nasty. Similarly, police, being human,also have their own frustrations and can sometimes use these protests to vent and be heavy handed. OP lol at the connection to Nazism- classic illustration that under the right circumstances, we are all capable of doing things that would otherwise be condemned.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

I wouldn't have a problem if the trouble makers were the only ones that got kettled, but pensioners and people with children

 

[cyclura]

The police are not always honest either https://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/mar/28/fortnum-mason-protesters-uk-uncut-video

 

[KaceysMummy]

I think if it's necessary then it should be used to an extent.
The recent student protests here where ridiculous and there was really no need for the damage caused throughout it - the police have to harsh to control it as best as the can.
If people weren't as 'out of control' the police wouldn't have to act like that - but people do take things to far cause perhaps they think they can get away with it - and a lot of people fail to co-operate with the police.
The police are just trying to 'keep the peace' and protect other people out with the protest.
Everyone has an opinion and may not agree with things - yet not everyone protests - I think if you do want to protest then you have to take it to account that it could turn bad and riots could occur.

 

[marley2580]

No I don't agree with it. I think it targets the wrong people - children pensioners etc - as the violent ones usually scarper when they see it starting. This results in innocents, who were exercising their right of protest, being detained for hours in sometimes freezing conditions, with no provisions, and only released after giving names and addresses etc. That is wrong IMO.

I also think that confrontation encourages violence, and that heavy handed policing IMO seems to make the confrontations worse.

 

[Lightworker]

Not specifically kettling but I mean what would you rather happen then? Should police just sit bidly by while people abuse their right to protest or have them there as a precautionary measure? Which is the lesser devil?

 

[special_kala]

Not specifically kettling but I mean what would you rather happen then? Should police just sit bidly by while people abuse their right to protest or have them there as a precautionary measure? Which is the lesser devil?

Agreed

The police are damned if they do damned if they dont tbh

 

[marley2580]

The police can be there and step in if there's trouble. If they go in with a confrontational attitude then a protest is more likely to become heated. The more confrontation there is the less women, children and older people will go, and as it's generally accepted that their presence makes violence less likely, the protests will become more and more confrontational. Personally, as everyone tends to accept that the violence is generally caused by the anarchic groups, I'd like to see the police taking steps to prevent these people even getting near the protests - much as they did/do with football violence.

 

[special_kala]

and then those people would complain that the police are stopping them from their right to protest

 

[lynnikins]

thing is you cant tell a troublemaker from a peaceful protester alot of times till they start acting up, as part of volunteer work i do then i deal with drunk rude people and the police and see both great interaction and poor interaction between these groups,
im sorry but imo if you go to a protest then you take the responsibility for that action, if the protest gets out of hand then you are responsible for your own safety as you choose to be there ,the police have to do what they can to protect people and property and their lack of action gets them in trouble as does the action they take so they are really getting the raw end of the stick.
yes its upsetting when innocent poeple and non-protesters get caught in the crossfire but where there are protests there will always be troublemakers we just have to accept that and allow the police to do what they can to deal with it and make things safe rather than getting annoyed when they do their jobs

 

[pinkbow]

Not specifically kettling but I mean what would you rather happen then? Should police just sit bidly by while people abuse their right to protest or have them there as a precautionary measure? Which is the lesser devil?

Agreed

The police are damned if they do damned if they dont tbh

Hit the nail on the head here.

That incident with the man dying from a heart attack saying he was out for a jog... Yeah ok then unless he was blind and deaf he knew what he was doing!!!

Also i think its funny the people who goad the police, forcing them to arrest/push them or move them on etc they want that to happen so they can yell "look what they are doing to me" blah blah.. Whatever! Throwing things, weapons setting fire to things, fire extinguishers at police... Wouldnt be doing all that if they where being mugged or attacked and wanted said policeman to save them.. Urg angers me so much!!

 

[special_kala]

This isnt the best example as i do think that police officer could have handled it better but faced with that many people screaming at you you are going to do what is necessary to keep things under control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FppDEJUG7fE&feature=BF&list=PLFEBB4AE6B8A0C548&index=11

She was acting aggressively towards him, screaming at him i heard the words scum or pig i think. He pushed her back yet she carried on and walked towards him arms out shouting so yea he hit her. If someone were coming at me like that i wlould have done the same.

Yes he gets in trouble

 

[cyclura]

In his face or not the police officer takes on that job knowing he or she will have very difficult situations, if they are the type of person that cannot keep their cool even when getting abuse then they should not be in that job. Who polices the police? I am not having a dig at police but I do think that job takes a special type of person and someone with a short fuse that cannot control themselves even with extreme aggression shown to them should not be in that line of work.
There are ways to control aggressive people without resorting to violence back, its something I have learnt as a kick boxer (how to "restrain" an agressive person without injury to them and I am no big person, yet I can do this with men well over 6ft built like brick....you get the point) so I am sure its in their training as well.

 

[pinkbow]

So its ok for some randum(non protestor just a normal day) person in the street to come up to a policeman and just shout abuse attack and/or throw objects at him and them just take it and not take action... No said person would be restrained and fprced to the ground cuffs on you name it and arrested! ... Just because its a protest you think these actions should be ignored as they have free will or some other petty excuse!! Dont think so!

These policeman are gathered from every force available at the time, we do have a shortage of policeman, with budget cuts still happening! Not only that but the streets still need to be manned for real emergencies. They only get a small 4 day or so combat course on how to protect themselves and restrian people... Its not a lifetime of kickboxing or some other course on how to act. Its silly to think all these people coming at you you are just going to stand there?... No..

Another thing that infuriates me... While all this palava is going on REAL emergencies, people dying, having accidents, mugged etc cant all be delt with due to alot of the force being in use.. People need to think that could be their mother, brother, son you name it...