Rochdale sex ring - race relevant or not?

[xolily]

So far, i've read that MP Keith Vaz thinks there's no race issue yet the UK equality chief, Trevor Phillips, is saying that denying race link in child sex-grooming is 'fatuous'.

As far as i'm concerned, race is definitely part of the issue. Not just the race of the men committing the crimes but of the victims.

OH brother was charged with sex with a minor a few months back, I have no doubt in my mind that the young girl was white and I know for a fact that this a widespread problem within the asian community. When OH brother was arrested, OH was intouch with the police and told them that he'd been given information about others that were probably involved, the police said the investigating officer would call back for names but never did

What do you think?

 

[TattiesMum]

This is a tricky one and I think that it breaks down into two separate questions ...

1. Were the offences a race issue?

2. Was there a failure to investigate properly because the authorities were scared of being accused of racism?

For me I do believe that there is a racial element to the actual offences.... Young people in care or from disadvantaged backgrounds have long been easy targets for sex rings and individuals (both 'carers' and general members of the public) because the victims have little credibility and no-one really to care enough to take notice of claims of abuse. It's a huge failing of our so called 'care system' and one which has been going on for years.

That failure is well known and added in to the general contempt that many in the Asian community (both men and women) feel for young white girls - seeing them as 'easy' and lacking in moral values - made it easy for these men to groom and exploit these girls without anyone looking too closely at what was going on.

They were easy targets for men who wanted safe sex outside of their own communities - safe in the sense of inexperienced, unlikely to be believed and a very low likelihood of being able to 'out' them as having extra marital or pre-marital sex in their own communities. So in that sense these were racial crimes.

Whether the authorities were reluctant to investigate for racial reasons is much more complicated ... and I'd want to see a lot more evidence before I make my mind up about that.

I'm told that Rochdale police have been prosecuting sex rings, involving men from all races and creeds, for years and that it is just this case which has been picked up by the national media - whether that is true or not I just don't know

I DO feel that in the current climate of extreme islamaphobia, the police may have trodden a little more carefully for fear of inciting right wing hate groups rather than actually being scared of being accused of racism - it's just the sort of thing that EDL, BNP etc would jump all over and use for their own agenda.

Like I say - it's a tough one and perhaps something that warrants an independent enquiry

 

[Yammas]

I think that in this case the fact that all of the victims were of the same race does say that there was a racial element to it otherwise as with other serial offenders there would be some variety.

The police also apologised to one of the victims who had come forward 2 years ago about what was going on but did not have her case looked into. Its soo sad she had to go through antoher 2 years before she was listened to.

 

[PrincessTaz]

There was recently a documentary on BBC3 regarding this, it was called Exposed Groomed for Sex - On Street Grooming. The presenter was himself a british pakistani and agreed that this was a problem with mainly asian men and it could be because sex is such a taboo subject with in the muslim communtity that it's leading to things like this happening. I'm on my phone at the moment so can't type a massive essay lol. If you're in the UK it would be worth seeing if it's still available on the BBC iplayer, it was quite interesting to watch.

EDIT: Found the programme on Youtube, here's the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGBGN6_Uns8

 

[xolily]

I don't think sex being a taboo subject "excuse" washes tbh.. most of these men are married with children.

 

[moomin_troll]

I heard on the news the men said they went for young white girls because apparently we are sluts!

When all the offenders are a certain race and victims are another ofcourse it's going to be a issue, like everything that hits the news.
But then again even if race is a issue what difference is it even going to make other then Asian men having a very bad reputation.

No matter what their excuses they are grown men and should no better, makes me sick

 

[PrincessTaz]

No I agree, I never said I agreed with that excuse. The documantry in no way condones this awul crimes but looking into why it's happening so often now and mainly in certain parts of the UK is importnant in stopping it happening anymore.

I only posted because I thought people might want to watch the documentry and get an insight into what the majority of british pakistani people actually feel about the subject and how the want to try and combat it.

 

[Yammas]

I watched a similar prgramme on channel 4 heres the link https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3268469 I do think its disgusting that they have children of thier own how would they feel if that was their daughter???

 

[xolily]

No I agree, I never said I agreed with that excuse. The documantry in no way condones this awul crimes but looking into why it's happening so often now and mainly in certain parts of the UK is importnant in stopping it happening anymore.

I only posted because I thought people might want to watch the documentry and get an insight into what the majority of british pakistani people actually feel about the subject and how the want to try and combat it.

sorry I wasn't aiming that at you, just in general! x

 

[xolily]

I watched a similar prgramme on channel 4 heres the link https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3268469 I do think its disgusting that they have children of thier own how would they feel if that was their daughter???

as i mentioned before, my OH brother was charged with having sex with a minor. when we found this out i, funnily enough, wasn't surprised and said he deserved all he got.. a friend of the families response? "boys will be boys" they certainly will if people take that attitude! he was bailed (dont understand this!) and continued living with my SIL.

only 3 weeks after this incident 3 children within the family come forward to say he had behaved inappropriately toward them and from that day (and rightly so) he was dead to the family.

i definitely agree with the cutting all ties after what he has done but if he was MY brother, he certainly wouldn't have carried on living in my house after the first arrest and likely, i would have disowned him aswell.

i know this is an extreme example but it still smacks of "its ok as long as it isnt happening to US" and that sounds such an awful thing to say given the circumstances, but thats how it comes across to me.

 

[TattiesMum]

i know this is an extreme example but it still smacks of "its ok as long as it isnt happening to US" and that sounds such an awful thing to say given the circumstances, but thats how it comes across to me.

To be fair I don't think that's a racial thing at all .... many of you will know that my ex husband turned out to be a paedophile and although I took the children and left immediately as soon as I found out there were SO many people - friends and family on both sides - who just refused to believe it and made excuses

A few years later his brother was involved in a huge court case (which made national news) for abusing young boys in his care (children's homes) and still people refused to believe either that my kids' uncle or their father had really done what was claimed People have this image that paedophiles/abusers can't possibly be someone they have known, socialised with, watched grow up, dined with etc ... to acknowledge that means acknowledging that their judgement is flawed and that anyone they know can be a risk - it's just so unsettling and scary that they fall back on denial

 

[Yammas]

I think that the denial is most likely a coping mechanism as we have a certain stereotype in our minds of what paedophiles loo like and to have that beleif challenged especially when its someone they know so well they just cant accept it.

 

[twinkle1975]

I think the difference I picked up from what xolily said & what TM said is that in the first case it wasn't that people were in denial about what he'd done, they just didn't see the harm in him doing it to someone outside their family (and possibly their community?) It was only when he was accused by children within the family that it was deemed to be a problem.

 

[xolily]

I think the difference I picked up from what xolily said & what TM said is that in the first case it wasn't that people were in denial about what he'd done, they just didn't see the harm in him doing it to someone outside their family (and possibly their community?) It was only when he was accused by children within the family that it was deemed to be a problem.

that's exactly it.