Struggling with my 4 yo

[Rockell8788]

Well the last few weeks my dd has literally overnight become a real struggle. She refuses to listen to anything or do as Shes told, having massive tantrums last over an hour, stamping her feet slamming doors if she doesn't get her way and is all but constantly crying or screaming at us.

I really don't know what to do any more, weve done a reward chart - fail. Taken toys away when she's naughty to earn back - fail. Encouraged her to talk about what's wrong again fail. Iv even shouted at her a few times out of pure frustration and she still continues the behaviour.

Today I bit the bullet and had to ask my health visitor for help when I was getting ds weighed. Now I'm worried what will happen now anyone have any advise on what to do. And anyone had the hv involved with behavioural problems

 

[RachA]

I can totally empathise as my 4 year old is a nightmare too. Part of our problem is that he's just started school and is so tired.
We have always been consistent with out discipline but at the moment he is just impossible to deal with.

.....Sorry, DD has just woken up. i will come back later to finish this

 

[RachA]

Back again!!

I think you are right to bring this to the attention of your HV - they are there to give you advice.

I think it's maybe a bit of an age thing. They are getting much more aware of things and they are also mixing with children who maybe are allowed to (or seem to ) get away with much more. I think the key is to be consistent and to deal with it as best as you can.
For example - Daniel gets home from school very tired and never wants to change out of his uniform. As he usually goes and plays in the garden i don't want him in it. Rather than making an issue i've been trying to find a way around it so it doesn't become a battle of wills. Today giving him a cuddle and talking to him whilst taking it off him seemed to work.

Although it was such a small thing, because it didn't become a battle it really helped the rest of the day.


Also i think really laying down the law with her might help - tell her what you expect and by when and if she doesn't then do something like a time out straight away. I'm sure thats what you have been doing anyway. Keep up with it. It's so hard, i know. I feel like giving up most days and could go to bed crying over how hard Daniel is. I'm hoping that if we just keep up with the reward chart, time outs and other things we do then we will get there.

IRO the reward chart how often does she get a reward? If it goes past a week since his last reward then Daniel gets bored of it.

 

[Rockell8788]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I really do think it's an age think my niece was very similar just after her 4th birthday for a month or 2. She's still on at nursery as her birthday was after the cut off.

With the reward chart she had to do 5/7 simply daily tasks ie eat all her dinner, get dressed without a tantrum and let me brush her hair with a tantrum. She honestly never managed to get a sticker so scrapped that idea as she didn't really seem interested in it.

I asked her again for the millionth time why is she being so horrid and I actually got 2 proper answers other than because I am. They were because I don't want daddy to work I want him with me all the time and the other was because she wants a garden to play outside in because she's bored.

2 things I have no control over

Were carrying on with the taking a toy away when naughty which she earns back when good. It seems to have an actual effect on her. This evening she did her normal refusal to go to bed without hell breaking loose so has been told no toys at all 2moro morning. This actually worked you could see the penny dropped she got upset but was asleep within 5minutes rather than 1-2 hours of screaming

 

[RachA]

That's really good that the toy thing seems to be working. It's really hard finding that one thing that makes an impact on them. Once you find it though it usually works for a good while. Hopefully the toy thing will be the thing for your daughter - sorry, lots of things there!

Does she like going to the park-could you (or do you already) take here there as you have no garden? I know its not easy when you have another lo too. We try to go once a week to the park - the other day it rained while we were there - my two weren't bothered at all while i got soaked with the dog lol

 

[tink30]

hello

Just wanted to say that i had terrible problems when my son was 4.. i was called twice a week by the headmistress for meetings.. he was lashing out, hiding under tables.. doing all sorts..only at school but good at home..
Anyhow hes 5 now and ive not been called once in this class.. he seems to have just grown out of it.. and is much more settled.
I found giving rewards for good behaviour worked better as it was positive rather than negative (taking away-which would only lead to more frustration.. they love stickers.. music time.. it doesnt have to be sweets or material things xx
I find a strict time for bed helps, becuase hes bad without his good quota of sleep xxx

 

[saitiffeh]

Hi

My son is about to turn 4 and I am starting to see some troubles. He just started Junior Kindergarden (at 3! oh boy) and has been picking up some new "ideas" from the other kids. When he gets mad he goes to his room and slams the door, a lot more talking back, and saying some very rude things.

I asked his teacher for some thoughts and ideas. She suggested a time out chair, like they do in school. So when he acts out, he gets the time out chair. He is good at sitting in it, but if he was trying to get up and run away, I'd be grabbing him and putting him back in until he stays put. Then we sit together and talk about what happened.

I don't know if it's a good idea for you and your LO but I didn't want to R&R

 

[Rockell8788]

That's really good that the toy thing seems to be working. It's really hard finding that one thing that makes an impact on them. Once you find it though it usually works for a good while. Hopefully the toy thing will be the thing for your daughter - sorry, lots of things there!

Does she like going to the park-could you (or do you already) take here there as you have no garden? I know its not easy when you have another lo too. We try to go once a week to the park - the other day it rained while we were there - my two weren't bothered at all while i got soaked with the dog lol

we usually take her to the park at least once a week, and after school if its not raining we sit out in our communal courtyard so she can play. it seems to be the mornings that are the most difficults as by the time we have got dressed ect ect ds goes for a sleep and as they share a room she cant play in there or go outside.

 

[Rockell8788]

Hi

My son is about to turn 4 and I am starting to see some troubles. He just started Junior Kindergarden (at 3! oh boy) and has been picking up some new "ideas" from the other kids. When he gets mad he goes to his room and slams the door, a lot more talking back, and saying some very rude things.

I asked his teacher for some thoughts and ideas. She suggested a time out chair, like they do in school. So when he acts out, he gets the time out chair. He is good at sitting in it, but if he was trying to get up and run away, I'd be grabbing him and putting him back in until he stays put. Then we sit together and talk about what happened.

I don't know if it's a good idea for you and your LO but I didn't want to R&R

thank you for replying. iv found she been copying behaviour she sees at school,most of it not very nice. we used to do a similar thing but we had a naughty spot in there end she would be naughty laugh and sit on the naughty spot without us saying anything. dont think she saw it as punishment

 

[hel_5]

My DD1 was the same, I just try and talk to her about it, i dont ask a question as the response i get is 'just because' but instead i say, 'are you being naughty because......' and unsually this works, she used to say its because she misses daddy (he does work stupid hours) but we talked about it, all she has to do is ask and i will call him, but im not being blackmailed by it!!!! - it got to the stage where she would burst into tears and tell me its because she misses daddy and i would normally give in but i got hard and she doesnt do it nearly as much now.
The naughty step no-longer works, but 'time-out' does, as thats what they have in playschool and i told her that everytime she is in timeout i have to tell teacher - that one has REALLY worked!!!

We are coming out the other end of it now , she knows i mean business, if she is naughty and will not do something, e.g tidy up, i will warn her and tell her what i will do if it is not done. We did hit a real low at one point, it was like she wanted to see how far she could actually push me, but somehow i managed to stick to what i said, - never make a threat that you cant/are not willing to carry out, i have taken away over half her toys at one stage, she thought the next day she could get them all back, when i said she would get ONE at a time, when she was 'extra' good it finally dawned on her (probably that her mother was an evil witch ) but it worked, sorry to say it might get worse, but stick by your guns and you come out the other end xx

 

[saitiffeh]

Lots of great suggestions here, I love it!

I think at 4 years old, questioning mom and dad's authority is just something to be expected. It's such an important stage though, because now is when we, as parents, have to show that we mean business! We want to show our love and support, but we also want them to know that they can't misbehave and get away with it. It can be a hard balance at times!

 

[Rockell8788]

Thanks for all your lovely ideas and support today has been a good day only had to remove 1 toy this evening but she earnt back 5 today however she did loose all of her toys last night so has alot to earn back
The condition if she goes to bed without tantrums and constantly coming out her room tonight is a choice of 2 toys back. If she doesnt no tv or pc learning game till after school. Fx seems to have worked only appeared once for the toilet.

I'd love her to respond to reward charts but she just doesn't an the naughty spot just doesn't faze her in the slightest. She's a little odd is my daughter only seems to respond to negative enforcement rather than positive

Would introducing a reward chart on top of you removal work.
I.e for each day she earns back 5 toys 1 sticker
No toys removed 2 stickers and perhapse a small sweet or a bouncy ball or something small
Once she gets 7 stickers a treat of some description not sure what tho

Feel free to help me with tweaking the rewards and charts ect if it's a good idea

 

[RachA]

Yeah - it could well work to give her a sticker for no toys lost etc.

My DS is a bit like your lo - quite often positive reinforcement doesn't work but doing things in the negative does - strange child lol!

 

[LauraLu]

Hi Ladies!

Hope you don't mind me popping in. I actually posted something VERY similar about my 4 year old daughter on the preschool forum page about a month ago. Her behavior is getting ridiculous, and DH and I are so tired of yelling.

I actually ordered a great book called "Love & Logic (Birth - 6 Years)." The book is all about giving children as many choices as possible so they feel more in control. The authors also talk about coming up with a phrase to use when the child is starting to get out of hand. For example, if she doesn't want to finish her dinner, say something like, "Oh, how sad. You're not hungry." Then remove the food, and she gets nothing else for the night. Or if the child is starting a tantrum say, "Oh, how sad. I can see you're getting angry. But maybe you can yell louder and stomp your feet harder? You had a much better tantrum yesterday!" (This actually works with my daughter!!! She looks at me and says, "I will NOT do those things!") Haha!

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I can RELATE!!! It's SO difficult sometimes. The book definitely shed some light on our situation.

 

[amore]

Some of those comments really made me laugh, I will have to try them out later.

My 3 and a half year old is the same he has been acting so wildly the last few months and all my normal tricks are not working - I have worked with children all my life but its so different when it is your own lo. Its so hard but I am sure we will all get through it. What I have really struggled with is some of the things he says, like last night I put him in time out and he was shouting 'your not my friend I want you to die mummy'. Rationally I know he does not mean it but it still hurts.


There are two things that still work abit with my son. Firstly, I completely ignore his bad behaviour and him while he is behaving badly - unless hes telling me something important. I think this works as for children attention is attention, good or bad (which is why time out can be quite effective as it removes attention). When my son starts to behave again I say 'oh I love being with you when you are friendly etc so should we play again now'. The second thing that works is to make him aware that he has a choice to change his behaviour and to seperate his behaviour from him. What I will do is say something like ' oh no you have acccidently put your grumpy pants on should we throw them in the bin and put your happy pants on' and then he will act out the motions of doing this and suddenly be all happy again and proud that he put the imaginary pants in the bin. I hope one of these ideas works for you xx

Hi Ladies!

Hope you don't mind me popping in. I actually posted something VERY similar about my 4 year old daughter on the preschool forum page about a month ago. Her behavior is getting ridiculous, and DH and I are so tired of yelling.

I actually ordered a great book called "Love & Logic (Birth - 6 Years)." The book is all about giving children as many choices as possible so they feel more in control. The authors also talk about coming up with a phrase to use when the child is starting to get out of hand. For example, if she doesn't want to finish her dinner, say something like, "Oh, how sad. You're not hungry." Then remove the food, and she gets nothing else for the night. Or if the child is starting a tantrum say, "Oh, how sad. I can see you're getting angry. But maybe you can yell louder and stomp your feet harder? You had a much better tantrum yesterday!" (This actually works with my daughter!!! She looks at me and says, "I will NOT do those things!") Haha!

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I can RELATE!!! It's SO difficult sometimes. The book definitely shed some light on our situation.

 

[Rockell8788]

Well we have come out the otherside alive from what iv heard seems a lot of children goes through this phase. It's the hardest by far, the key to success was being consistant at all times and don't have say something you won't actually follow through with.

We still have bad days but these are only when she's tired. The hv have been so kind and helpful and explained all the behaviour and why she was doing it and how to approach it. The vast majority of it was attention seeking and to ignore her if she continued ask her to stop whatever then say that's 1 next time just say that's 2 and if she carried on that's 3 and carry out naughty spot for what we deemed minor things and toy removal for really bad behaviour.
After 4/5 days her behaviour was drastically better.