Vigilantism (sensitive - grooming/abuse of children)

[xemmax]

I came across these videos - I believe there is someone in the US who does the same thing, but these people claim to be the only people doing it in the UK at present.

Two men who claim to be freelance journalists, calling themselves Nonce Hunters, pose as an underage (14 years old) girl online and via text messaging with the aim to attract potential paedophiles. They pose for weeks at a time until the man is convinced they are real, getting friends to pose as the girl for phonecalls, and then arrange to meet in a public place.

When they arrive with video camera in hand, they immediately tell the men who they are and as a result are able to obtain quite an insight into these men's minds. Most of which are adamant they aren't paedophiles, don't know what they were thinking, etc etc. There seems to be a complete separation between what they are doing and what they would consider to be the behaviour of a paedophile; a complete denial.

But I wanted to ask what your opinions are on the 'freelance journalists'. These men claim to be doing it for good reasons - as a deterrent to other potential paedophiles, to shame these men into never doing it again, to learn what has made these men agree to meet a child in this way.

And yet I see no mention of this information being passed on to the police... just the internet.

Are these men heroes?
Is this dangerous vigilantism?
Are they in it for the protection of children or for recognition?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hNQ8q3xCJA

 

[LisaL79]

In it for the attention, most definitely, but I can't help but applaud them for doing it.
They probably don't go to the police because of that To Catch a Predator fiasco.

Anyway, if what they are doing can deter pedos or people that have lapse in judgement, then right on. Make them afraid to act on their perverted urges.

 

[xemmax]

In it for the attention, most definitely, but I can't help but applaud them for doing it.
They probably don't go to the police because of that To Catch a Predator fiasco.

Anyway, if what they are doing can deter pedos or people that have lapse in judgement, then right on. Make them afraid to act on their perverted urges.

I'm just watching To Catch a Predator - I actually can't believe this was aired on TV?! Like it's some kind of entertainment.

I don't see why this is posted online and not submitted to the police.

 

[BabyJayne]

Generally, I disagree with vigilatism. The causes on which vigilates act can, for one, be subjective, and there are great tendancies for vigilate groups to turn on one individual, for it to become a witch hunt and for it to end up with more laws of the land being broken than the ones they are trying to prevent or avenge.

In this case, I see what they are doing, but I do not see any point to it apart from gaining their own noteriety. This is not tackling the wider problem, which is another issue I have with vigilatism. It is basically saying that if you pose as a young girl and go looking for these types of people online you will find them. We get nothing new from that knowledge - we know this happens already. Like you said Emma, no information is passed to the police and I don't get why.

It seems to be some blokes out to get their faces on the Internet, using a very real and very emotive subject, without doing anything constructive to really help tackle the problem.

 

[tina3747]

Generally, I disagree with vigilatism. The causes on which vigilates act can, for one, be subjective, and there are great tendancies for vigilate groups to turn on one individual, for it to become a witch hunt and for it to end up with more laws of the land being broken than the ones they are trying to prevent or avenge.

In this case, I see what they are doing, but I do not see any point to it apart from gaining their own noteriety. This is not tackling the wider problem, which is another issue I have with vigilatism. It is basically saying that if you pose as a young girl and go looking for these types of people online you will find them. We get nothing new from that knowledge - we know this happens already. Like you said Emma, no information is passed to the police and I don't get why.

It seems to be some blokes out to get their faces on the Internet, using a very real and very emotive subject, without doing anything constructive to really help tackle the problem.

I agree with all this, it makes no sense to not pass on the info... although ill have no sympathy for the perpetrators who unwittingly go to meet the 'young girls and boys' who may end up with a beating.

I hope some good comes out of this though, maybe it might make peadophiles think twice about grooming online if they think this may be the result... Although the police have been doing it for years and its made no impact.
You can but hope.

 

[xemmax]

I totally agree with you Jayne. They seem to get a kick out of doing it and that makes me feel really uncomfortable - who could be that excited when in the presence of a potential paedophile? They obviously think they are doing this out of some moral duty to society but it just seems really insincere. All they do is rant at the men they meet, tell them how disgusting they are and not allow them to speak.

I think if they really wanted to help, they should just tell the men they are publishing it online and then hand it in to the police. The men will be shit scared just by the threat, and then the police can deal with them in accordance with the law.

 

[midori1999]

Presumably even if they did pass the information on to the police, it would be useless to them.

I don't agree with any form of vigilantism at all. You only have to look at past acts to see that mistakes can and have been made and innocent people have been hurt, had their lives ruined, been killed or committed suicide. Not to. Mention most acts of vigilantism are illegal.

 

[moomin_troll]

I often watch a show the catch a preditor with perverted justice.
It's a great idea and needs to be done all over the world correctly

 

[xemmax]

Presumably even if they did pass the information on to the police, it would be useless to them.

I don't agree with any form of vigilantism at all. You only have to look at past acts to see that mistakes can and have been made and innocent people have been hurt, had their lives ruined, been killed or committed suicide. Not to. Mention most acts of vigilantism are illegal.

I'm not sure where the law stands with regards to prosecution for the intent to sexually abuse if the entire instance involved a decoy. It appears it is a crime when a police officer assumes the identity of a real child, but I can't find much about a decoy.

In the US it appears to be the case though - as the above mentioned programme shows the men getting arrested for intent.

Either way I'm sure the police would be interested in the details of these men though, as they are obviously a threat to children.

 

[louandivy]

I agree with everything that Jayne said! I hate To Catch a Predator, I despair at civilisation sometimes that watching pedophiles get caught is actually a form of entertainment...and anyone who watches cannot deny that is IS entertainment. I always think about the families of the men who are caught, what if they have kids and now their dad has been exposed on international t.v?

Plus even though when going by my initial rash and emotional reaction, the idea of some guys going out and catching pedophiles sounds great - I can never agree with vigilantism on any level because then where do you draw the line? Morality is relative, even though I'm sure everyone agrees that child abuse is wrong...what about other acts that some may consider 'wrong' and worthy of vigilante punishment to some people, but not others?

 

[louandivy]

Also Emma did you watch the Black Mirror ep yet? It kind of raises the same kind of questions!

 

[tina3747]

Also Emma did you watch the Black Mirror ep yet? It kind of raises the same kind of questions!

I started to watch it buy dh had cancelled the recording

I got to the bit where she drinks the glass of water then it stopped... A whole 24 hours of waiting to watch it... Baby in bed, drinks and snacks to hand then it stops!! Think ill have to 4od it!

 

[louandivy]

Def 4od it and tell DH he has bad taste in t.v

 

[tina3747]

Def 4od it and tell DH he has bad taste in t.v

He's got no attention span whatsoever!!

Did you see the last weeks? Creepy but had a lot to think about! Especially when he started to say "Please don't make me jump, I don't want to die"....