Women in the Workforce!

[Seraphim]

Lately I've been really struck by the compromises we have forced on us, and those we force on ourselves!

From applying for my current position, I suddenly became acutely aware that I was viewed as a 'walking-womb'.

On annoucing our pregnancy, my in-laws (rather innocently) assumed the next move would be "Jacking in your job then..?"

And now I'm in the position where I would like to make a career move, and again the expectation is that I should stop development in that area... "because... err ... um" - Nobody has a real reason.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not offended or angry - because I thought the same things myself initially. These self-hampering beliefs came from me before they came out of anybody else's mouth... But why!?

When I feel in the minority on these boards for being an expectant mother with job prospects to consider... I sometimes wonder why - but then when I think on it for a minute, I'm not surprised.

I've lived on disability benefits, and I think every mother should take every ounce of opportunity she can to stay at home with her baby. But I still find it sad that the 'Work & Finance' section is so overwhelmingly filled with benefits enquiries in lieu of work-orientated ones.
[To reinforce that, this is not a judgement on benefits, but on the situation we find ourselves in]

To me, it feels like the law has stepped up to help us, and we're not even close to living up to making use of it.

I'm currently applying for a job at 18 weeks pregnant. I feel extremely conflicted about whether I should declare this at interview, or if I should fall back on the law.

Last night my best friends husband who'd missed part of the convo was asking if they'd keep the job open for me, when I said they don't/won't know I'm pregnant yet he said "Oh! Sneaky!"

I took this on the chin and asked him how was it sneaky - does anybody else applying for a job walk in and declare when they plan on having children?? Because it's the same amount of leave whether you take it sooner or later.

Yet we don't seem to have this in the front of our minds.

When I told my mother I was planning on applying, she was rather nervous and cautious, with no real reason.

I guess I'm just vexed that we end up boxing *ourselves* into a corner because of some general feeling or belief that has no grounding, let alone substance! And this in turn just bolsters the supressive actions of the mean *******s making all the important decisions!

 

[tinkabells]

Totally agree with you, so many people have said, oh so your not gonna go back to your after you've had baby, and cant believe your starting uni a month after having her!!

I find that its more women who say these things than men, i think men are scared of saying it and women think they have the right?! xxx

 

[aimee-lou]

I know what you mean.

I've found myself at something of a cross-roads, forced to choose between my career and my family.

While certain circumstances have forced my hand and I'm now content with the thought of having a good 10 months off with bubs at least, I am by no means 'giving up my life' as my father chose to put it when I told him I was pregnant.

I think we have to do what's right for us....a happy mummy has a happy baby, and if going back to work, be it in a career-field or not, is what makes us happy then we should be able to do it. I think that we naturally look to what is viewed as 'normal' (which isn't normal at all) of the stay at home mum, perhaps working part-time if at all, and this is where that natural conclusion you mentioned comes from.

I do however, get a little annoyed by uber-feminists. People who talk as if it's the child's fault that their career is causing problems. Who have chosen to have a family and then wish to continue as if Nothing has happened. There was a documentary on the BBC 'The trouble with working women' (may still be on i-player if you have time) and this really highlighted this for me. There was one particular woman who only saw her daughter for 20 minutes a day because she worked all hours, commuted 3 hours a day to work in her chosen field, leaving her husband at home to care for the little one. While I admire her for what she was doing, she almost sounded like she blamed the world at large for 'forcing' her to do this so that she can carry on with her life.

I personally think there is a compromise. You should be able to continue your career, but at a pace that will allow your family to enjoy you and vice versa. My husband always says that what's the point in earning the money for a holiday, if you never have it!

Aside from that, the whole work issue is a difficult one. Certain fields are more 'mummy-friendly' than others and others, like you say, employ women expecting them to up-sticks and have children. There is not this balance of expectation that perhaps the woman in question has the option to continue. Instead of it being a trade-off between the woman and her employer, it's her 'right' to come back to her job. Surely this must leave a bitter taste in even the most generous of employers. Unfortunately I've not experienced what a supportive employer is like, so I too feel the pressure to make that sacrifice.

I must say though that through all of this I have never seen the famly has a 'stalling' of my career. Granted, my chosen path of academia and heritage management isn't as high flying or cut-throat as many, but there has never been any indication that I would be expected to stop any progression. It's simply the pace at which this progression is reached that has perhaps brought a shock to some, especially my father.

With regards to your job interview etc, I think that you should be admired. By applying at this stage you are actually showing your commitment to continuing your job with them. Any employee can leave very shortly after starting (I once only stayed 10 weeks in a job!) so they are taking no more of a risk with you than with any other candidate. I hope that it proves a fruitful move for you!

Sorry I've rambled and probably don't make an ounce of sense. It's sunday!

 

[Seraphim]

I think all of us are here because we're committed to being mummies.

I've tried not to judge, but I've never understood, having children to rush off back to work and miss out on raising your child. (I'll have a look for that documentary)

I guess this is also a conflict I have.
I know I want to take every minute of leave I can afford (and then some I can't) because I don't want to come home having missed those first steps!

So it feels like I want my cake and eat it... (strange phrase, I always want to eat my cake )

This is why I come back to the laws that are in place - and how I'm amazed we're not utilising them more. That we're almost going as far as denying ourselves of their protection, by harbouring attitudes we unleash without even realising.

Thanks for the kind words hon.
I am committed to being the best I can be. For myself but more importantly for my family.

x

 

[aimee-lou]

I personally like any type of cake.....and I like eating it with cream!

Seriously though, I think there are almost 2 'acceptable' ways to have children nowadays.

1. SAHM.....watching Fern and Phil and taking your LO to coffee mornings

2. Working just as before, leaving your 4 week old with the in-laws/child-minder.

Neither of these seems acceptable to me to be perfectly honest and never has done. Like you say, we all have rights to leave, be it maternity, paternity, parental etc but we don't seem to take it as it's seen as taking liberties to which we are not entitled! I would like to think that there are a lot of women on this forum and beyond who want to make the most of the generous package on offer in the UK (even if at times it seems biased).

I read an interesting article a couple of years ago that suggested that the reason the government does offer this package is to make it impossible for people to get used to being at home without the money coming in, forcing you to go back to work whether you feel ready or not. Maybe a little Orwellian in it's outlook, but the article made an interesting point in this.

 

[Always&4ever]

I wasn't allowed to work after having Jasmine due to my SPD but even if that hadn't been an issue, Rich's family wouldn't have approved

 

[Sarahkka]

I climb on this soap-box every so often on these boards, too - like I did in your last thread on this topic!
I am definitely a social activist. I have gotten the labour board involved when I encountered unfair work practices in the past (not at my current job). One of my main reasons for doing so was not just that I was not going to be pushed around, but that if someone didn't stand up to these people, then nothing would ever change.
I feel the same way about pregnancy. Stop feeling guilty for having a baby!! It's not a crime!!!
And our grandmothers and mothers went through a hell of a lot to get our human rights in the wokplace established. We owe it to ourselves and our daughters to keep those rights intact. It doesn't take much for them to be eroded by employers who see pregnancy as a huge inconvenience.
I also agree that parenthood and the workplace still have a lot of evolving to do. I'd like to see much better paternity leaves offered. I'd like more men to consider a year off to be the primary caretaker. Once breastfeeding is no longer involved, there's no reason why they shouldn't. They are excellent at it.
I also think that challenging our existing prejudices, just as you did with your family, Seraphim, is an important part of becoming the change we want to see.
Okay, speech over.

 

[Seraphim]

Oh. I. Am. SO. Mad!!!!

I had told one of my oldest best-friends I was busy filing the job application last week.

I get an email today:

"Humm busy times then for you just when your supposed to be relaxing! What job have you applied for? anything exciting? Im guessing its home based!"

GRRRR.

Why I pay attention I do not know.

This is the same friend who's response to our pregnancy news was to ask me, THEN my husband if it was 'Really? Is that GOOD news?' And proceed to spend the whole evening telling me about the cost of child-care, being a social outcast, and finding yourself totally screwed in the workplace. Like - she's an authority in the field.

I know, I know - one day she will be facing it all herself. And yes, really she wishes she was. But how I do I not smack her right in the kisser when she comes out with $hit like this!!

Why are women doing this to themselves!!

 

[aimee-lou]

Oh now that's un-called for! She probably doesn't see herself having children and therefore no-one else should!

The old 'rise above it' advice is going to come out now but....ignore her! She is obviously ignorant to the real issues and focusses on the shallow ones instead i.e. Money, childcare, lack of social life. Hmmmmm bigger picture people!

Me, on the other hand, I'm trying to find myself something to do for a year....trying to find an on-line course or distance learning. (To keep my eye in for when I go to do my MA in a few years)...i've been off a month and I'm bored....hence my very clean house atm!!

 

[redberry3]

I work from home 2 hours each day and at the office 5 hours each morning Monday to Thursday.

I think a lot of it is based on individual situations. I wanted a baby but at the time my DH's job was not enough to make ends meet when I was on Mat Leave, so I came up with a plan to be at home for the first 3 months and then work after that. It has worked out perfectly and I do not regret being able to provide to the income of our household. Sure the next baby I will stay at home completely, but at the time Alexander was conceived we needed the money from my job.

I think employers need to be more open minded and possibly they would be if you came up with the proposal right from the beginning of your pregnancy.

There should be no question as to whether a mom is allowed to work or not. Its what is best for your family at the time. If you have to be in the office then find someone that you trust while you are there.

I find that if I was home each and every day I might go mad. There is only so much cleaning I can do and so much cuddling Alexander will take.

 

[Sarahkka]

Another thing that would be really great would be daycare on site for any business over a certain size. Then you could bring your kid to work with you and you are minutes away if something comes up.
Then maybe that would free up spaces in publicly-funded daycare for people who are self-employed or who work for smaller businesses.
I don't know. Just ideas.
A graduated return to work would also be great. Better for baby, too.
The thing is, we have the data telling us that this would save money in the long run. Businesses that provide good childcare policies get way more productivity from their employees. It just makes sense.
I'd rather see my tax dollars going to support families and solving this early years childcare stuff than half the scandals and money-wasting schemes that seem to be in the news these days. I wish we could decide where we wanted our tax dollars spent. That should be part of an income tax filing - tick off where you'd like your money spent this year!
Things are changing slowly. A full 52 weeks of mat leave in Canada happened in just the last few years. That's huge. We were on the cusp of nationalized daycare before the Conservatives got in, but that won't happen while they run the government. You just have to keep writing your MP and keep the issues in their faces, I guess.

 

[Seraphim]

I'm very lucky that I can finance upto 12 months maternity leave, and I have a hubby who can fulfill at least 3 days p/w childcare when I go back.

I'm just getting tired of people adding limitations to my future.

 

[aimee-lou]

I'm very lucky that I can finance upto 12 months maternity leave, and I have a hubby who can fulfill at least 3 days p/w childcare when I go back.

I'm just getting tired of people adding limitations to my future.

I'm in a very beneficial situation too in a way with hubby going to uni in September 2010, if we can make ends meet for 4 months, we'll be fine from then.

Limitations on my future.....I know just what you mean. I just want to keep on going with my end goal. Why other people feel the need to comment I still don't have a clue!

(Btw that end goal is pretty far off yet but I'm looking forward to getting there!)

 

[Sarahkka]

I'm in the same boat, financially. We planned and saved for a mat year, but we could have survived on just my husband's salary. It wouldn;t have been as fun a year, though. No travelling and visiting.
When I go back to work in December, we will have a sort of weird situation with childcare. My husband works shifts: four days on, four days off, so he will be able to care for Simon whenever those days off fall on the weekdays.
I am very grateful that things have worked out the way that they have for us. I'm at a stage in my career where I am still very competitve in the job market, even if I do take a few years off to care for my kids. But that gets into the issue of so many of us feeling like we have no choice but to wait until we are in our 30s to have families because to have them earlier would mean huge setbacks in our professional lives. Or it takes us that long to feel financially secure enough.
I'm not surprised that people see having babies as a career limitation when there are still as many obstacles as there are to access to safe, affordable childcare.
I lived in Sweden for a year when I was in university and I was incredibly impressed by their nationalized daycare system. Everyone used it. The kids were always out for walks or doing little concerts or whatever. It is supposed to be one of the best in the world. I was 19 at the time and I remember thinking, wow, if I got pregnant at this age in Sweden, I wouldn't be having to choose between a baby and several years in poverty or an abortion. It was pretty eye-opening.