Bedroom tax

[xlouloux]

My mum is in a 3 bed house with just her and my little brother and she's been trying to move in to a 2 bed for ages, she actually hates having so much space as it's quite a big house. The people who lived there before who she swapped with had a disabled son so the house is adapted for a disabled person. Her opinion is she doesn't mind the bedroom tax and thinks it's fair and she wants to move anyway, however she did say she wishes she had more help finding somewhere suitable to live, and finding someone suitable to move in to her house as every time she tries to do it herself it just falls through.

I agree with her, if she just gave up the house and moved without doing a swap then the council are likely to just place any family in there, when someone with a disabled child would really benefit from it.

 

[Tasha]

I understand why but there arent the smaller properties here for people to downgrade to. I totally understand if people are refusing to go smaller, but there are many people I know waiting 2 years + for a smaller property. Bit unfair that they have to pay when they have no choice in the matter.

I know it is suppose to be money saving but what might happen is people who cant afford to pay the bit that HB now doesnt cover, go and rent a smaller property privately, this will be covered by HB but here rental market is four times or more than council rent, so in the long run there is more being spent out.

 

[xsadiex]

I understand why but there arent the smaller properties here for people to downgrade to. I totally understand if people are refusing to go smaller, but there are many people I know waiting 2 years + for a smaller property. Bit unfair that they have to pay when they have no choice in the matter.

I know it is suppose to be money saving but what might happen is people who cant afford to pay the bit that HB now doesnt cover, go and rent a smaller property privately, this will be covered by HB but here rental market is four times or more than council rent, so in the long run there is more being spent out.

In total agreement there! X

 

[Kate&Lucas]

It aches my ball to hear "the government need to make these cuts". Let's face it, there are a lot of things this government could do to decrease the deficit without penalising the already impoverished, but they'd piss of their mates and donors so they take it from us instead.

As others have said, the houses aren't there. I was lucky to get a two bed house here (which I've recently been informed is one room too many) - because I was warned not to 'settle' for a three bed. A three bed I could have had as soon as I wanted, but I had to wait over a year living in a tiny room sharing a single bed with Lucas for a two bed to become available. Private housing, which is also affected, was no better even if I could've afford it.

There are surely better ways of getting social housing tenants to downgrade where necessary. This 'bedroom tax' coming into place will only further grind down decent families while making it very easy for the idiots who make a career out of the benefits system to just side-step around it.

 

[bookreader]

I see both sides to this.

Although it is social housing, some people have lived in them for years and it is more than their house, it is their home. It would be sad to have to leave all the memories after paying rent for so long. That said there are larger families who needs them

 

[summer rain]

I don't agree with the bedroom tax but there is always home swap/mutual exchange and there are loads of really nice 2/3 bedroom properties on there. I have found having a 3 bedroom property myself that people can be just too fussy and even though it is just them and maybe one other person rattling round in a 4 or 5 bedroom house or flat that they can't even maintain or clean properly they still think it is beneath them to move into something smaller. We know this family and the mum really did want to swap with us; they have a 4 bedroom house but it is classed as a 5 bedroom for benefit purposes because there is a small second reception room downstairs, they were already losing some benefit due to some local housing association policy as it is only them and one child still living there. They struggle to clean the house and maintain the garden and have got into serious arrears on several occasions; anyway the dad of the family turned round and said no to swapping with anyone, said he will probably end up being evicted but he doesn't care. Honestly if it was just me and OH at home I would not be so picky as keeping a roof over our head is far more important, whats the use in staying in a place only to get evicted anyway (and then the council can refuse to rehouse you?) xx

 

[angelandbump]

I work for a local authority and i love this bedroom tax.
This is how it works with our tenants
How will under-occupation charges be worked out?
The under-occupation charge will be 14% or 25% of your gross (total) rent, depending on how many extra bedrooms you have.

We have a large amount of people waiting for 3+ bedroom homes and out tenant's are able to swap homes so that can help and also if you live in a supply and demend area (popular area and you are going from a 3bed to a 1 bed) you will get put on a band A to apply for housing which is the highest banding and you will get a house with in weeks.

I have had women saying they will fall pregnant so they don't have to pay... I can't stop that but I think it's shocking to have a baby just for that reason.

At the end of the day, if you don't want to pay the tax or move, get a job and pay your rent then you will be quids up!.

I hate to say it but I very much look forward to this government bringing in no housing benefits to under 25's. This will seriously stop the leave school, fall pregnant and move into your own home culture. People try and say it isn't common. I'm very sorry but it is. More then 20% of our housing stock are to young (16-25) single mothers who get full housing benefits... thats over 1/5!!!! It will seriously make people think twice. and not only single mums but single lads who just hate living at home so move into a house and don't feel the need to work since you get it all paid for you!.

 

[angelandbump]

I understand why but there arent the smaller properties here for people to downgrade to. I totally understand if people are refusing to go smaller, but there are many people I know waiting 2 years + for a smaller property. Bit unfair that they have to pay when they have no choice in the matter.

I know it is suppose to be money saving but what might happen is people who cant afford to pay the bit that HB now doesnt cover, go and rent a smaller property privately, this will be covered by HB but here rental market is four times or more than council rent, so in the long run there is more being spent out.

I can see what your saying but I have to slightly disagree. I bet if the majority didn't have sky TV, smoke, mobile contracts etc then they could quite easily afford it. Benefits are to help you survive not live comfortably. They are meant to just help in a time of need and only short term.

I understand about housing stock issues but there are so many options (well there is here) We have the local authority housing then other housing association including home, three rivers and many more. They are all lower cost than private and even if you live in private accommodation, I'm sure there are loads of smaller properties too x

 

[Tasha]

I work for a local authority and i love this bedroom tax.
This is how it works with our tenants
How will under-occupation charges be worked out?
The under-occupation charge will be 14% or 25% of your gross (total) rent, depending on how many extra bedrooms you have.

We have a large amount of people waiting for 3+ bedroom homes and out tenant's are able to swap homes so that can help and also if you live in a supply and demend area (popular area and you are going from a 3bed to a 1 bed) you will get put on a band A to apply for housing which is the highest banding and you will get a house with in weeks.

I have had women saying they will fall pregnant so they don't have to pay... I can't stop that but I think it's shocking to have a baby just for that reason.

At the end of the day, if you don't want to pay the tax or move, get a job and pay your rent then you will be quids up!.

I hate to say it but I very much look forward to this government bringing in no housing benefits to under 25's. This will seriously stop the leave school, fall pregnant and move into your own home culture. People try and say it isn't common. I'm very sorry but it is. More then 20% of our housing stock are to young (16-25) single mothers who get full housing benefits... thats over 1/5!!!! It will seriously make people think twice. and not only single mums but single lads who just hate living at home so move into a house and don't feel the need to work since you get it all paid for you!.

The bolded, considering your job I am sure you are aware that you dont need to be on benefits to get housing benefit. It affects low income working families too, so it is a bit unfair to do the get a job stuff.

Plus getting a job isnt an option for some people, disablities etc.

I can see what your saying but I have to slightly disagree. I bet if the majority didn't have sky TV, smoke, mobile contracts etc then they could quite easily afford it. Benefits are to help you survive not live comfortably. They are meant to just help in a time of need and only short term.

I understand about housing stock issues but there are so many options (well there is here) We have the local authority housing then other housing association including home, three rivers and many more. They are all lower cost than private and even if you live in private accommodation, I'm sure there are loads of smaller properties too x

This is really presumptious again. We were on JSA for a short time after Honey died as my DH went in some sort of breakdown and lost his job, we couldnt afford any luxuries. We didnt have sky, never smoked, had as PAYG phones and just put credit on as and when we had £5 (maybe once a month if that). My uncle is currently on JSA and he has a freezing cold flat because he simply cant afford to heat it. Things like sky are on a contract as is the mobile, so if people have them already there is not a lot they can do though.

I understand you see people but remember the sterotypes you see are just from the people you see not the majority cos you dont see the majority so unfair to assume.

As for the stock of housing and there being lots of options, I live in London and there is the council and housing associations but there are still not the housing. We are Band B (second highest band) and are classed as homeless, we have been waiting for a house for nearly ten years. My neighbours are in a council house, a three bedroom on the third floor, they are elderly and can no longer manage the stairs due to their health and yet they have been on the waiting list and home swap list for two years. Different areas have different issues. Here there is actually more a need for two bed properities and so there is no where for three bed people to downgrade to.

 

[Kate&Lucas]

I work. I'm still in receipt of housing benefit and am definitely not "quids up".

 

[Pearls18]

I'm little surprised people are so against this in the public, it's social housing, it isn't meant to be luxurious but a home you are lucky to have cheaply provided by the state, when space is superfluous to your needs you should move into smaller property so another family can benefit. I think it is good people are still allowed to stay in that house if they are attached to it but they have to accept it is bigger than what they need so need to pay for the extra space, that money then needs to be utilised into building more homes in the first place! What gripes me about social housing is how people can 'inherit' these homes through generations despite their income, for instance my step mum as a single mum had a council house then my dad moved in with his good wages and their rent went up but it was still much cheaper than standard rent, they could afford private rent but were hanging on to a council house another family could have (they've moved now). I don't know perhaps I miss the point of social housing, I think it used to give people the right to a home for life which was great, but with housing so short now I think it needs to be provided much more sparingly.

 

[Pearls18]

(Just to add as I hadn't thought about the lack of smaller housing)

In the military which I guess is a form of social housing as it is provided by the government, we have certain entitlements, with just 1 DS we are only entitled to a 2 bed, if when we moved here there were only 3 beds available they would have moved us into a 3 bed but we would have only paid rent for the cost of a 2 bed because it isn’t our fault they don’t have enough 2 beds, quite jammy really cheap rent and an extra room (there was a 2 bed though damn lol). You can kind of see both sides, it doesn’t seem somewhat fair people will be forced to pay more as there isn’t another option in smaller houses, but at the end of the day they benefit from the space??

 

[Tasha]

I work. I'm still in receipt of housing benefit and am definitely not "quids up".

And that is true for many people. Chuck in childcare (not sure if Kate has any) and for many you're actually worse off financially for working. So as Kate says not quids up.

 

[angelandbump]

First of all I am not stereotyping anyone.

Secondly, I am very hard to sway opinions on 'disabled people' not working. What would be a genuine reason not to work?
In my work we have an almost deaf women work on the phones, we adapt with special equipment. We have 2 people in wheelchairs, one women has terminal cancer but is still working!!! There is the nicest of men with down syndrome who volunteers for our local charity shops. This is a whole new debate but i'm sorry, now a days there is not many disabilities that stops you from working.

I made no presumptions I simply commented on what I see on a daily basis and on evidence collected by alot of councils. I don't know if you watch daybreak on a morning but there was a massive kick off by tenants because a council told their tenants to think of that is priority because they know what will happen come April. Sadly it is not as isolated as you think and it is a shame that genuine people get a bad name.
To be honest the women they featured on day break should have her benefits stopped and she should be forced to get off her bottom and get a job.

If people used benefits for the correct reason then we wouldn't have half the issues we do. Benefits are for a time in need not to day to day living.

 

[Tasha]

First of all I am not stereotyping anyone.

Secondly, I am very hard to sway opinions on 'disabled people' not working. What would be a genuine reason not to work?
In my work we have an almost deaf women work on the phones, we adapt with special equipment. We have 2 people in wheelchairs, one women has terminal cancer but is still working!!! There is the nicest of men with down syndrome who volunteers for our local charity shops. This is a whole new debate but i'm sorry, now a days there is not many disabilities that stops you from working.

I made no presumptions I simply commented on what I see on a daily basis and on evidence collected by alot of councils. I don't know if you watch daybreak on a morning but there was a massive kick off by tenants because a council told their tenants to think of that is priority because they know what will happen come April. Sadly it is not as isolated as you think and it is a shame that genuine people get a bad name.
To be honest the women they featured on day break should have her benefits stopped and she should be forced to get off her bottom and get a job.

If people used benefits for the correct reason then we wouldn't have half the issues we do. Benefits are for a time in need not to day to day living.

You see a minority of people and yet you use words like majority, to me that is presumptious as is the get a job remark. As I said many people get HB who do have a job, many people cant afford luxuries because you see these people doesnt mean it is true for the majority, the majority of people you see maybe but I am not sure how you know if they have sky.

There are plenty of reasons people with disablities cant work and just because you know people who do, doesnt mean that people in similar situations can do the same. No two paths are the same.

Any way back on topic, what evidence are you talking about that the council's collect?

 

[Dragonfly]

Sigh, such a facepalm post. Seriusly can of worms your ignorance on not alot of reasons disablied cant work, You clearly dont know many disabled people other than the ones than can work. Some dont want to take on people who are in and out of hospital a lotto. I have a relative who is in a wheel chair and has septicaemia a lot, operations on legs etc. No he cant work as he is actually to bloody ill. I have another friends with ms so bad she cant actually hold anything any more and you can barely make her out when she talks. I used to look after her. I also looked after a lot of disabled peolpe to, not old ones either and they couldn't have worked. Oh and my sister is so badly disabled on her work experience she has to be accompanied as the government make them go on work expo. She wanted to however I don't she would get a job with her condition. I would be here a while justifying why everyone who is disabled cant work to you I really would. But I dont see there is a point you seem to work for Atos or something.

 

[Tasha]

(Just to add as I hadn't thought about the lack of smaller housing)

In the military which I guess is a form of social housing as it is provided by the government, we have certain entitlements, with just 1 DS we are only entitled to a 2 bed, if when we moved here there were only 3 beds available they would have moved us into a 3 bed but we would have only paid rent for the cost of a 2 bed because it isn’t our fault they don’t have enough 2 beds, quite jammy really cheap rent and an extra room (there was a 2 bed though damn lol). You can kind of see both sides, it doesn’t seem somewhat fair people will be forced to pay more as there isn’t another option in smaller houses, but at the end of the day they benefit from the space??

I only just saw this but I am not sure how they benefit. If I had a one child and a three bedroom then the third bedroom would simply sit unused so I would be paying for something that I didnt benefit from.

 

[angelandbump]

Sigh, such a facepalm post. Seriusly can of worms your ignorance on not alot of reasons disablied cant work, You clearly dont know many disabled people other than the ones than can work. Some dont want to take on people who are in and out of hospital a lotto. I have a relative who is in a wheel chair and has septicaemia a lot, operations on legs etc. No he cant work as he is actually to bloody ill. I have another friends with ms so bad she cant actually hold anything any more and you can barely make her out when she talks. I used to look after her. I also looked after a lot of disabled peolpe to, not old ones either and they couldn't have worked. Oh and my sister is so badly disabled on her work experience she has to be accompanied as the government make them go on work expo. She wanted to however I don't she would get a job with her condition. I would be here a while justifying why everyone who is disabled cant work to you I really would. But I dont see there is a point you seem to work for Atos or something.

I said there are reasons people can't work i'm not disputing that but I think sadly people hide behind this as a reason not to work too. again sorry for getting off topic but thats just MY opinion.

 

[Pearls18]

(Just to add as I hadn't thought about the lack of smaller housing)

In the military which I guess is a form of social housing as it is provided by the government, we have certain entitlements, with just 1 DS we are only entitled to a 2 bed, if when we moved here there were only 3 beds available they would have moved us into a 3 bed but we would have only paid rent for the cost of a 2 bed because it isn’t our fault they don’t have enough 2 beds, quite jammy really cheap rent and an extra room (there was a 2 bed though damn lol). You can kind of see both sides, it doesn’t seem somewhat fair people will be forced to pay more as there isn’t another option in smaller houses, but at the end of the day they benefit from the space??

I only just saw this but I am not sure how they benefit. If I had a one child and a three bedroom then the third bedroom would simply sit unused so I would be paying for something that I didnt benefit from.

I guess it’s hard to quantify, some people may see it as a waste, others may use it as junk room, play room, spare room. Extra space is seen as a good thing until it has a price tag. It isn’t fair that people aren’t in the position to downsize and are forced to pay extra for space they don’t want, but they do have that extra space so the government are choosing to charge, not saying it is right, as I say in the military they don’t see it that way we don’t have to pay for space we aren’t entitled to but have to have.

 

[angelandbump]

The people I feel for is the familes the councils allowed to get a larger house knowing this was coming into place. I know if a couple who applied for a three bed not aware this tax was coming in and was given the 3 bed even though their council was fully aware of the changes. Now they only moved late last year and she is having to move again. I don't agree with it when it is couples who can't share a bedroom for instance anther women I work with has sleep apnea and has to have a mask on at night that keeps her partner up so they have seperate rooms, no consideration is taken for that. I think it is a large mistake paying tenants housing benefits directly because alot of older tenant's do not know how to pay their rents via direct debit and may not be mobile enough to go out and pay.
I really really feel for working familes who also get housing benefit and I can't even say I understand but no I don't.

I visit almost every new tenant to carry out surveys now and we have to ask do you or will you be getting Sky tv because you must have permission to have the dish installed in our homes. Thats how I know about our tenants but no, i can't say i know the rest of the UK so sorry for my use of words saying majority.