Beliefs

[Ozzieshunni]

Do you think that part of believing in something is to allow people to disagree and not jump down their throats? I'm not speaking of any thread on BnB. The example is: I was having a conversation with a woman who chose not to vaccinate. I respect that decision, but it's not for my son. I made my choice to vaccinate. She however took it very far and said that the additives in the vaccines would make my son sterile so I should not expect him to procreate!

 

[Lightworker]

I think holding certain beliefs whilst allowing others to have different opinions is a very delicate, rarely achieved, balance.

In an ideal world the saying "live and let live" would have a very literal and easy application but the reality of it is not so.

All the rules and laws we live by were all dreamed up by specific beliefs held by specific people. If we were allowed to each do as we believed, without imposing on others, there would be anarchy.

My own way of handling this is I allow people to have their own beliefs, as long as I personally haven't identified a way in which that belief may pose risk. I don't mean that I sit like some kind of god assessing what beliefs are credible and which ones aren't, just that if someone holds a certain belief about something..eg. the submission of women, I will give my opinion about it because I feel that someone's wellbeing is at stake. I try very hard (and sometimes fail equally hard) at being tactful, but I think we also need to honour our individual selves and share ourselves with others in the form of giving opinions (ideally solicited).

We all have wonderful gifts and it would be a waste if we didn't share these with others.

In the end, my favourite saying on this is "we should have the freedom to be ourselves, and hold certain beliefs in so far as being ourselves does not hinder another from being themselves."

x

 

[Eternal]

I have beleifs like everyone and i have religious beleifs too, which have an inpact on how "I" live my life. Just because its something I believe strongly in I wouldnt tell someone else how to live or my view on the way they live their life.

If people ask me anything of my releigious or personal beleifs then i would share them, but i certainly wouldnt say anything about the way someone else choose to live.

If im honest i wish everyone would vaccinate their children as it impacts on the wider community, but i respect their decisions and would never say anything nasty to them, i think its unfair of your friend to say what she did about your son and i would have been tempted to say, well if yours gets mumps he will be too, but i would bite my tounge or blamed it on pregnancy hormornes lol! You choosing TO vaccinate doesnt impact her in anyway, so why does she need to be so nasty?

But no, i think its fine for people to share their beleifs, but as for making those sort of commments then i dont think its right.

 

[Mum2b_Claire]

I agree with Lightworker basically. Rights (to beliefs, choices etc) are meaningless if they contradict someone elses rights. Contradict is really the wrong word but I can't think of the right one!

 

[xolily]

i'm not sure if i'm getting at the right thing here but my OH always says "why do you always have to be right? you don't shut up until i agree with you" now this isn't always true, but most of the times it is. because when i ask him a question, there's a yes or no answer, right or wrong.. i.e. i ask him "do you think it's weird that so and so (grown man) is hanging around with 14yr olds?" his response "don't really care" so i went on & on about of course it's wrong rah rah rah and he sees that as me having to be right, but i was right, because it IS wrong and so i'm going to go on about it until he agrees with me and sees why it's wrong. i'll only persist with things if i know what i'm saying is 100% right. just like people on here continually go on about ERF, you can't argue with it because the evidence is there.

 

[Yammas]

Yes I think everyone is entitled to their beleifs but to ram them down other peoples throats is wrong. Even if you are 100% right you cant expect people to do as you say just because its right people will do as they want

 

[nevernormal]

I do think that no matter what you believe you should be prepared that there will probably be MANY people who disagree with you. And it's not a reason to be hateful, from either side. It seems the conservatives are always hateful to the liberals (while trying to bully them into believing something), and the liberals are fine hating them right back and treating them in the same manner (while calling for tolerance and acceptance). I am definitely conservative in my views but hating other people for not believing the same kind of defeats the purpose and pushes them away.

That being said, if you truly believe something, you should know how to defend it, be able to explain it to others, and be willing to stand up for it. You definitely have to choose your battles as well.

On the religious front, I'll say that if you believe that your beliefs are Truth (not truth to you, but Truth), then I do think you have a duty to share that with those around you and with the world. A true Christian that believes that Jesus Christ is the only way to God (according to the Scripture), and everyone who does not follow Him is on a path to eternal damnation, then they should share the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Does this mean they should be judgemental, degrading, condescending, or try to bully someone into believing? No way! My job as a Christian is to try to glorify and exemplify God so everyone who meets me will be drawn to Him (and I fail miserably at it most of the time). But He is doing the drawing and the saving, I am just a tool.


There has to be absolute truths in some instances, like religion and morals. For example, with morals, if someone says that stealing isn't wrong because it isn't wrong to them, if there is no absolute truth that says it is, then why can't they steal? In cases where absolute truth exists I would say that those who believe those truths should stand up for them (in a respectful manner). As another poster said, it's a delicate, rarely achieved balance.

But in other cases, like your vaccination example, it doesn't really have an absolute (as far as I know, I've only researched it a bit and plan to more if I ever get pregnant!), and are probably the battles less worth fighting. Just ignore her and go on

 

[vaniilla]

beliefs are what make us unique and mistakes are what make us human, I'm sure its only a minority that actually want to ram their views down everybody's throat, the ones that seem pushy usually are just very passionate about their beliefs or they genuinely believe what they are saying even if you know it be to wrong, facts always get confused with statistics,

like for example we could all agree that an apple is a fruit that grows on trees, but if you have enough free time you could google it and I'm sure you'll find something that links them to life on mars or mind control, it doesn't make it true though, no matter what our beliefs are, logic and facts are universal, you can't bend facts but you can bend ideas and statistics which is why people may get offended because their own views might be based on the latter rather than the former.

 

[britishsaffy]

I do think that no matter what you believe you should be prepared that there will probably be MANY people who disagree with you. And it's not a reason to be hateful, from either side. It seems the conservatives are always hateful to the liberals (while trying to bully them into believing something), and the liberals are fine hating them right back and treating them in the same manner (while calling for tolerance and acceptance). I am definitely conservative in my views but hating other people for not believing the same kind of defeats the purpose and pushes them away.

That being said, if you truly believe something, you should know how to defend it, be able to explain it to others, and be willing to stand up for it. You definitely have to choose your battles as well.

On the religious front, I'll say that if you believe that your beliefs are Truth (not truth to you, but Truth), then I do think you have a duty to share that with those around you and with the world. A true Christian that believes that Jesus Christ is the only way to God (according to the Scripture), and everyone who does not follow Him is on a path to eternal damnation, then they should share the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Does this mean they should be judgemental, degrading, condescending, or try to bully someone into believing? No way! My job as a Christian is to try to glorify and exemplify God so everyone who meets me will be drawn to Him (and I fail miserably at it most of the time). But He is doing the drawing and the saving, I am just a tool.


There has to be absolute truths in some instances, like religion and morals. For example, with morals, if someone says that stealing isn't wrong because it isn't wrong to them, if there is no absolute truth that says it is, then why can't they steal? In cases where absolute truth exists I would say that those who believe those truths should stand up for them (in a respectful manner). As another poster said, it's a delicate, rarely achieved balance.

But in other cases, like your vaccination example, it doesn't really have an absolute (as far as I know, I've only researched it a bit and plan to more if I ever get pregnant!), and are probably the battles less worth fighting. Just ignore her and go on

With regards to the religious part of this statement, i've heard this told to me before, and I disagree. I don't think that just because you believe something to be 'truth' that you need to push that belief on others, because you can color it anyway you would like to, but that's waht it amounts to. Live and let live. I don't care if people are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or anything else. Everyone is entitled to believe in what makes them happy - even if they believe in the Star Wars "force be with you' theory. In the absence of absolute PROOF that one belief or another is FACT, we should leave everyone to believe whatever they want (excepting of course those whose beliefs are harmful to themselves or others)

I have had this discussion several times with people since I moved to the USA, and I find it to be a constant source of irritation that religion is so touted here.
My biggest concern regarding schooling for my soon to be son, is that we wont be able to find him a school that doesnt force feed any one religion, because I want him to be allowed to be educated about the many different views and opinions.

(Oh and the woman who openly critisised your choice to vaccinate - WAY out of order!!)

 

[nevernormal]

Britishsaffy,

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I did not mean that Christians should PUSH anything on anybody. However, I do think they should share their faith. I used Christianity as an example, because Jesus Christ is Truth, and I am a Christian.

However, I think that anybody has the right to share what they believe with anybody else, but not to push it on them. For one thing, if you can push someone into believing something, someone else can push them into believing something else.

If someone (that I disagreed with from a religious standpoint) and I were having a discussion where the topic of what I believed was relevant, and I had an opportunity to share, I would. If they asked me to please stop, then I would. I would hope they would extend the same courtesy to me. What you believe is an integral part of who you are, so I don't see why it's not acceptable to share those beliefs with others. If there's something in your life that has brought you peace, joy, freedom from the bondage of sin, and more, why would you not want to share that with others?

I went to an extremely left-wing college. What I've found is many people (in all spectra of belief) are more than happy to try to PUSH what they belief on others, or at least say that their beliefs had to be accepted and tolerated, while they discriminated against those same people! Why, if someone is not going to respect my beliefs (especially when, as you say, it's not harmful to myself or others), do they expect me to respect theirs?

In short, my answer to the OP's question was: I do think that part of believing in something means allowing people to disagree. But along the same lines, if you're not sharing what you believe how would you know if you disagree in the first place?


P.S. To Ozzieshunni, sorry for sort of hijacking your thread! I know you brought in a specific example, and I responded to your initial question. Just let what that woman said roll off your back. She was way out of line!

 

[britishsaffy]

Nevernormal,

Perhaps I did misunderstand then. For I am actually fascinated by religion and am interested in hearing about other peoples beliefs, perhaps intrigued is a better word. That being said my intrigue is directed at no one particular religion and I can listen to people talk about it so long as they can accept my questions as a curiousity and not judgement or disdain.
What I have found more often than not, is that by asking questions, people take it as an inviation to try and convert me to their belief, which is what sort of makes me agitated.

I am by no means atheist, i would find no solace in that, I just have no proof of what is actually true and therefore choose to believe in a general idea of 'someone/thing higher' and try to live by good morals.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

No worries It's a debate open to many interpetations and many examples