Big bbs/flat nips. Struggled last time but want to try again. Advice? :)

[LilMiss_91]

So I'll give a brief history. I've always had flat nipples and quite big bbs (an E right now but went up at least a size or 2 with engorgement. It was crazy).
I have a 2.5yr old son, who I had every intention of ebf for at least his first 6m to 1yr. However, right from birth he had great difficulty/reluctance to latch on. At the hospital the midwife had to force him onto the breast (her words) and I only managed to get him to latch on once myself while we were at the hospital and only in the football hold. We were sent home with syringes and cups to supplement his feeding. BFing seemed to go well for about a week or so but I still had difficulty getting him to latch on and had to keep squeezing my boob (like hand expressing) while he was feeding otherwise he would unlatch straight away. Then all of a sudden he literally refused to latch on. He wouldn't make the wide mouth, and if he did latch on he would immediately unlatch. He would just scream and scream no matter what position, time of day it was etc and the more I tried to feed him the more distressed he would get. I had several midwives tell me that my technique was fine so it wasn't that. But after that the only help I got was one horrible midwife saying, "just keep trying" and making it out to be my fault and that I obviously just wasn't trying hard enough. Like what, I am effing well trying!! So anyway, I ended up pumping relentlessly, through mastitis and fever and whatever bloody else until my nips were dry, cracked and bleeding, I could barely produce enough milk for his next feed and I was regularly in tears and felt completely defeated. So when we started bottle feeding him expressed milk we used the Tommee Tippe Closer to Nature bottles and he couldn't get on with them. He could only latch onto the teat bit and not the wider "areola" part. He would get terrible wind because I couldn't get a good seal on the teat. We swapped to an older style bottle with a longer, narrower teat and voila, peace at last or what!! But basically, I had to give up expressing. My milk pretty much dried up and I was getting very stressed and depressed about it all.

So skip ahead to now. I'm 15wks pregnant and I want to be prepared this time. I never worried too much the first time that I wouldn't be able to BF and I didn't realise how much it would effect me if it turned out I couldn't. So I'm going ahead with every intention of BFing. But now that I'm aware of the issues I/my son encountered I want to take steps to give myself the best chance of being successful. But at the same time I am also preparing to bottlefeed and accepting it as a possible necessity. I'm not going to punish myself for it this time.
So after all that, THIS is my shopping list:
AVENT Natural Latch bottles 9oz and 4oz
Lansinoh Latch Assist Nipple Erectors (great name, I know!)
Lansinoh breast milk storage bags (much better than Boots I found last time. Boots one regularly leaked causing me to literally cry over spilt milk!)
Tub of Aptamil formula (used for my son with no problems).

I already have AVENT Nipplettes which I will try and use but I find they show under clothing so those are tricky. And I also have breast pumps (manual and electric) from last time and some nipple shields I never used last time.

Is there anything else you would suggest either equipmentwise, techniques for bigger boobs/flat nipples or anything? Any input is very welcome all I ask is that my choices both current and previous, be respected. I experienced what I can only call bullying from certain medical staff during my difficulties with my son and that is one thing I won't stand for anymore. Thankyou xx

 

[MindUtopia]

I also have flat nipples, plus my first had a lot of structural issues - lip tie, bubble palate and a 'short tongue' which apparently is like a posterior tongue tie that can't be clipped. It caused all sorts of latch issues. She was BF for 10 weeks, but even we switched to bottles, she struggled to latch and feed from a bottle until about 5 months. Add on my flat nipples and it was really difficult!

What I'm planning to do next time is to use Supple Cups, which are pretty much like the Avent Nipplette I think, before feeds to pull the nipple out so she can then latch on. I've worn them a few times around the house (literally I stick them on for 20 minutes sometimes in the evening when I'm watching tv, you don't need to wear them for a long time or out in public). I've noticed some difference just from that in one nipple pulling out a bit more. But right after I take them off, they look like normal nipples that are long enough for a baby to latch on to. So I'm going to just apply them for 10 minutes or so before a feed to bring the nipple out and then hope that's enough for baby to latch. I literally plan to have them with a tube of lansinoh sitting next to me so as soon as I give birth, I can pop them on while we have skin to skin and then as soon as we're ready for a feed, we can go for it. Many flat nipples in time pull out, so I'm hoping that is enough to get me going and the regular feeding will do the rest. I definitely noticed a difference last time once I was feeding for a few weeks and after expressing, and if only my daughter could have latched well, we would have done a lot better once that happened.

I also just plan to get a lot more support next time and from the right people. I had lots of midwives and health visitors and a few BF counselors barking orders at me, but all the advice was really contradictory and some of it was just downright bad and probably ultimately led to me not BF as long as I wanted. It was a lot of "I'm sure it will be fine, just try again later" or "your baby is too sleepy to latch right now, here just give her formula". Or the real clincher was that they told me if I was going to use nipple shields, which I had to or else my daughter wouldn't stay latched at all, I had to sterilise them and put them straight on the boob from the sterilising solution without rinsing it or else I was going to kill her with some horrible infection. The milton's eventually gave me dermatitis and all the skin fell off my nipples and boobs around them, literally it was like an open would with no skin left. To this day, I'm still missing a layer of skin and my areolas are like beige, normal skin coloured instead of brown because that skin has never fully grown back. I didn't know at the time that was a stupid thing to do. I just followed their advice because I thought they knew what they were talking about. I realise now actually that unless they are a BF counselor, they like don't know what the heck they're talking about. So I'm really surrounding myself next time with people who know about breastfeeding, not midwives or health visitors or the GP, but actual BF counselors. I met a fantastic one, but it was too late at that point and I had no skin left on my nipples anyway. So I'm making a list of all the BF groups to attend and getting out to them every week right away no matter what and also making sure I have the contact details of some peer counselors who could come to me if I needed more support.

 

[noon_child]

I recommend reading a book like 'the womanly art of breastfeeding' so that you can feel confident that you know just as much OR MORE about what your baby needs.

I'd also look at things like biological nurturing/ laid back nursing. This works with baby's reflexes and emphasises allowing them time to find the breast themselves (so no one is forcing your LO on to the breast.

Also remember each baby is different but some things can be genetic. So if you think your previous LO might have been tongue tied (problems feeding from bottles can be a sign) then it could be worth looking for in your next baby.

You don't mention the birth your first time round. Interventions during birth can really affect breastfeeding, and while we can't always avoid interventions, understanding how they could affect LO will help you identify the problem and find solutions more quickly.

 

[PocoHR]

I have big bbs and flat nips. We are using the medela nipple shield size 20mm. Without it bfing would not be possible for us.

 

[go_dons]

I have enormous boobs (somewhere between a 38JJ-L now, not really sure as I can't really get a bra in my size, was 36J pre pregnancy) and very short nipples that got flatter during pregnancy.

Breastfeeding hasn't been easy but I've been able to do it using medela nipple shields. DS's mouth is just too small and my boob to nipple ratio to out of whack to feed without them but that's ok, he gets the milk the same as any other baby. Every now and then I try him on when my nipples have been pulled out during a feed and he can latch for a few seconds but can't hold it. I feel like when his mouth is bigger we might be able to do it without the shields but we'll see. Make sure you get the right size for you, it's about nipple/areola size not boob size.

To feed my baby I also have to roll up a beach towel and tuck it under my breast to lift it and use either the under the arm/football hold with baby propped up on pillows or side lying position.

Like you've already said, try not to listen to all the conflicting and disheartening advice. In hospital I wasn't able to get DS to latch even with a shield and had to bottle feed EBM. I had some midwives telling me i'd never be able to feed him, or only off one nipple or trying to shove his head onto my nipple. But I just tried not to worry about it, luckily the midwife from my OB's practice is wonderful and I just listened to her and kept trying and not stressing. I was able to get DS to latch on the very first feed at home with a shield and able to get him on the particularly troublesome nipple a few days later. The more relaxed environment probably helped things.

Goodluck

 

[pinkpassion]

I second the supple cups!!

 

[Mushymilkfor2]

I didn't have flat nipples before pregnancy, but as soon as my boobs grew from pregnancy my nipples became fairly flat! I had a very hard time in the beginning with my son and truly the things that saved pur breastfeeding relationship was nipple shields to help in latching. It never would have been possible with out those! I also had a couple of those cup things that pull out the nipple. Those helped a ton, and combined with the shield we were super successful!

It was around 6-8 weeks that my nipples adjusted and he learned how to latch better that I was able to wean from the shield.

Good luck! And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. It doesn't make you a bad mom! If it's best for you and baby to go to formula then that's what is best, and there's 100% nothing wrong with that!

 

[MrsKChicago]

My nipples are flattish, and I'm definitely well endowed. We also had a tongue tie corrected in the hospital, which further complicated things. We had to use a nipple shield for 5 weeks or so, and he did best in football hold for a long time. Now we're at 9 months and breastfeeding is a breeze, so it is possible for you!

My advice would be to find a well recommended IBCLC now, so you can contact her as soon as the baby is born. They're better at problems than hospital consultants, and a good one can get you past big breasts and flat nipples, no problem. You may have to pay for it, but it evens out if you save on formula.

Good luck, mama! You can do it!