Can I ask a question?

[Foogirl]

I was just wondering, do two mummies, face different issues from two daddies? Does it seem people are more accepting of one than the other? The reason I ask is, whenever people talk about adoption and want to be arseholes about it, they always seem to concentrate on the oh-so-terrible things that will happen if two men adopt but I can't recall hearing the same ire directed at two women adopting.

Also, just read the introductions thread, I thought it was interesting you all noted how you came to have your children. Is this something that really bugs you if people ask - after all, no-one ever asks me! And for two mummies, do people always want to know who carried your child (or for daddies, who's sperm was used) It always seemed strange to me that anyone would ask that (I remember reading it in an article about SSP parents a while back and the journo had asked the question of a couple) Why would it make a difference.

Anyways, that was more than one question. Sorry. I'm really nosy!

 

[ace28]

Thank you for being "nosey!" I actually have no problem with people asking questions, although you will find answers to the same exact question are as varied as the people who answer them!

In my opinion and experience, yes, lesbians and gay couples face significantly different issues when it comes to public perception of parenting. As a lesbian, I have been asked many many times about which of us is the ACTUAL mom (by which the asker invariably means birth mom, but probably lacks the language to be able to ask more specifically. Usually, we would answer that we are BOTH the mom, and the asker would then clarify that they were asking which one of us gave birth). We have also been asked on occasion what we intend to do about the lack of a male influence/figure/parent in our child's lives.

Gay men, from my limited understanding, face a more basic question from the public of "how can two men be dads?" I think this is because of the perception that in any relationship, women are the more nuturing, parental figures, and so the lack of a woman in a relationship throws off perception from the very start. I'm not saying that's right, mind you, but that is an issue I have seen some of our gay friends face.

And to answer the other part of your question (though I think I already kinda did)- we get asked about who is the birth mother ALL the TIME. Usually, in fact, it's the second thing people will sit there and try to figure out (the first being whether or not we're together or just very close sisters!). Makes us laugh.

 

[TwinsFanMTB]

For us personally since we are still awaiting our first, people seem to have no problem asking how we got pregnant, will the "father" be involved, do we know him and such. It gets a little annoying to constantly have to explain to people that there will be no "father" just a donor. People are curious though and as long as they aren't rude about it I generally have no issue talking to people about it.

 

[Carrie&Char]

Hi dont worry about asking questions i am sure you wont be the last and you are definaltey not the first.

The main question we get is who is mummy as in who gave birth.... People assume that i gave birth becuase let say i am the more girlie one in the realtionship and are often shocked when they find out OH gave birth.

Next question HOW??? We went to a clinic as we did not want to use someone we knew, LO is able to go and find out about the donor when she is older but we will tell her everything we know when she gets older and support her is she decides to go find out but OH donnated eggs as well so we coudl also have children wanting to find us when they are older.

Following question ??? Wasit expensive and we just say it was worth it!!

Following question ??? Do you want more? Yes

I can only give and answer as a lesbian couple but know 2 gay couples with children but these were from frevious straight relationships and the children are older, i know several lesbian couples who have children either toghether adopted or donor sperm and with children from previous relationships.

I think there is still a stingma (not spelt right i know) about it all but people are getting more and more acceptive but you still get the odd person that says it is wrong how can you what about the child but as long as they child is in a loving relationship i think families come in all shapes and sizes

even Elton john has worries about his son https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2099104/Elton-admits-fears-dads-stigma--says-son-Zachary-proud-is.html

 

[Doctor_Daddy]

...

 

[Carrie&Char]

well said Doctor_Daddy

one of the question we get asked is what about her dad etc but my LO has load of male influence in her life and i bet it the same for Doctor_Daddy but the other way round

 

[Doctor_Daddy]

...

 

[Tegans Mama]

I was just wondering, do two mummies, face different issues from two daddies?

I think so.. We know a few gay male couples who want children and haven't had them as yet as it's easier to ask a man to donate sperm (and then probably never have anything else to do with you/the child once its born) than it is a gay man to ask a woman to carry his child for 9 months and then give it up. We struggled to find a donor when we TTC last year (now put off indefinitely for a multitude of reasons, one being we can't find a donor we like enough to use)

Does it seem people are more accepting of one than the other? The reason I ask is, whenever people talk about adoption and want to be arseholes about it, they always seem to concentrate on the oh-so-terrible things that will happen if two men adopt but I can't recall hearing the same ire directed at two women adopting.

Yes, society as a whole I find is more accepting of lesbians than it is of gay men. I've heard how terrible it is for a child to have two mothers (we've actually had it said to our faces a few times ) but it is more commonly said to male couples.

Also, just read the introductions thread, I thought it was interesting you all noted how you came to have your children. Is this something that really bugs you if people ask - after all, no-one ever asks me! And for two mummies, do people always want to know who carried your child (or for daddies, who's sperm was used) It always seemed strange to me that anyone would ask that (I remember reading it in an article about SSP parents a while back and the journo had asked the question of a couple) Why would it make a difference.

They do always want to know and it really pisses me off to be frank. We've had a lot of arguments in the past few years over who Tegan's "real" mum is. As you know she has a lot of appointments at the hospital and the doctors always want to know who "mum" is. We reply both. They reply "but whose her mum?" I used to say "me" when she was younger but as time has passed it's become more of an issue and now I say it's irrelevant, because really, it is. It's got none of anyone elses business who carried her, we are both her parents. The worst time was recently when Tegan was in hospital (after she had an allergic reaction to her flu jab) and the nurse repeated the question FIVE times. I was one more repetition away from telling her to leave when she just smiled and said "ok".

As for people asking "how" we have a daughter... We have heard that question a thousand times. We used a known donor who has no contact with Tegan - and I was even asked by own Dad if I had sex with the donor to get pregnant MIL was sure we were joking or I'd cheated If I don't know a person well I just avoid the question to be honest ..

Anyways, that was more than one question. Sorry. I'm really nosy!

That's ok

 

[Foogirl]

Wow, thanks for the replies. Glad I haven't offended.

The "real mum / dad" thing must be really irritating. I mean, I can understand from a medical point of view, if one parent has some kind of genetic thing then it is a valid question, but for no other reason. It makes no sense to me that people would think it is important.

I do often wonder about the role model thing - and my sister as a single parent gets the same question. I think it is important to ensure all children have strong role models of all types be they male or female, young or old etc, but just as I am sure my family provides those for Abby, most SSPs would have a wide family network too. Nobody seems bothered about how I will provide those role models, but do seem so concerned how you guys will.

I was thinking it was funny you'll all share with each other the how's and why's but get pissed off if others ask - just the same as when I get pissed off if people make ridiculous comments to preemie mums and yet we can say the same thing to each other and its fine. I wonder why that is

I have to say, I do have a big issue with the whole Elton John adoption thing. But it is to do with celebrities and adoption rather than Same sex parenting. I have the same issue with Madonna and Angelina Jolie - although I suspect much of my problem with her is that she snagged Brad Pitt It just seems like they want a baby so they go and get one, when so many people have such a hard time adopting. But I guess that's just the way the world works.

Thanks again for the responses.

 

[Nibblenic]

Ive how this question a lot. How is your Dad gay? I dont think thats what they really mean, what they mean is how do I exist if my Dad is gay. Because what you need to remember is im 28, born in 1984, when being gay was a huge deal, the height of the AIDS epidemic.
Ive had that question from me finding out 'officially' at 8 years old, till 20 years later.

It makes is especially complicated as his partner of 15 years is called Chris, not Christopher, and most people assume that when I say my Dad and Chris, i mean Christine.

In the 80's early 90's people had much more of an issue with my Dad being gay much more negatively or aggressively interested. Now I dont know if generally peoples perceptions have changed or that the few that had issue know better just to shut their mouths. Now when I am asked I get a double take, and then when they feel brave enough the question. Which is always phrased starting with 'how?'

I think something my parents could have done for me is prep me with an answer, because it took me a long time to fully understand the question and answer myself.

 

[Carrie&Char]

Ive how this question a lot. How is your Dad gay? I dont think thats what they really mean, what they mean is how do I exist if my Dad is gay. Because what you need to remember is im 28, born in 1984, when being gay was a huge deal, the height of the AIDS epidemic.
Ive had that question from me finding out 'officially' at 8 years old, till 20 years later.

It makes is especially complicated as his partner of 15 years is called Chris, not Christopher, and most people assume that when I say my Dad and Chris, i mean Christine.

In the 80's early 90's people had much more of an issue with my Dad being gay much more negatively or aggressively interested. Now I dont know if generally peoples perceptions have changed or that the few that had issue know better just to shut their mouths. Now when I am asked I get a double take, and then when they feel brave enough the question. Which is always phrased starting with 'how?'

I think something my parents could have done for me is prep me with an answer, because it took me a long time to fully understand the question and answer myself.

Can i ask a question back, obviously from what you are saying i can take it you have 2 daddies, how did they tell you about everything then as there is going to come a point when i have to tell my little one about how she was concevied.

i just wondered if from experience you would of prefered telling earlier or later or in a different way

Sorry if i am being silly

 

[Nibblenic]

No my Dad was in a heterosexual marriage when I was conceived. His mother/family were extreme religious so he just met a good friend and thought it was a good idea to marry her, as you did in the late 70's

I was told properly as I say at 8, I know and remember asking for a good year or so before that and being confused why my parents werent together. I can never not remember my Dad having a boyfriend, 4 serious ones since my mum. I also remember at the age of 6 telling my whole class that men could get married, which in '89 was a little on the ridiculous/radical side.

I think the thing to remember is to your child your situation is what they consider normal, even if it isnt. I personally would have liked even a little explanation the first time I asked. I mean at 6 I didnt know the ins and outs of homosexuality, in the late 80's there were definitely no other children in my primary school with either one of both homosexual parents. Times have very much changed. I mean look at Andy Peters being chucked off childrens television for coming out, now its practically a requirement!

I think the best thing is to be as honest and open as you possibly can, to their level of understanding. I mean when my daughter is young and she asks where she came from I plan to tell her my tummy, so I dont see why thats different, they dont need to know about sperm and eggs at 5/6 they dont have a proper concept of gender either.

I do think its a good idea to load them with an answer to the questions their peers will have at different ages.

It took me a long time to get my standard reply which is: "Being gay was different in the 70's, my dads family were heavily religious and he thought he was doing the 'right' thing marrying a friend, my mum. He left when I was 2 after having an affair, but it was with a bloke"

I did get a lot of 'is your dad gay?' at school which never really lead to anything else. However I was bullied for being a lesbian, because apparently homosexuality is genetic I mean this was the 90's I would hope times have changed a little

 

[Carrie&Char]

Nibblenic thank you for the answer, we were told by the clinic that we have to tell her and that you can by books to try and explain, i agree it is more of the norm now so hopefully she should be ok when she is older which i am sure she will be.

Thank you again