Chinese Accupuncture

[Blythe]

Briss - i suspect a late ovulation - are you going for a scan thurs or fri? I am thinking of you and hoping for some positive news at next scan.

 

[nobump]

Hopefully late ovulation. Let us know how your scans go.

Xx

 

[Briss]

today on day 9 my temperature went up so it looks as though I already ovulated by day 8 of my cycle – shockingly the Munich team seemed to be right about elevated progesterone levels. when I saw my temp this morning I was devastated and did not even think I could get out of bed. I did in the end because I have to work but I am so upset, cried all the way to work just could not help the tears. what happened??

This is extremely unusual for me to have ovulation by day 8, I check my temperature and hormones every cycle for over 3 years and I have never ovulated so early before. I blame this on progesterone. My body does not seem to respond well to any hormonal interference even as harmless as progesterone. So many ladies are taking progesterone after O to help implantation and they are all fine. why would I have such a drastic reaction? I mean honestly day 8 ovulation?? One time (in 2012) I ovulated on day 9 but I had laparoscopy that cycle and they really messed with my ovaries there so that's a good reason for my body to drop the egg so early. but what happened this time to make such impact?

I honestly did not see this coming. but then I only had ET+progestrone twice and the first time I had a chemical and started spotting on 10 DPO so when I stopped progesterone I got my period the next day but it was really a mc rather than period. I feel I need to understand if this could be the effect of taking progesterone. otherwise how can I go forward with natural IVF if I have to skip every other cycle because I ovulate so early?

 

[Briss]

on a more positive note, I finally saw a tiny drop in my weight this morning! I was getting depressed as I have not lost anything. I mean I lost quite a bit the first few days after I started but this was just water not real weight loss and after that there was nothing, so depressing. but today finally a change! My weight is still outrages and I am not even close to my weight when I started dieting for the first time 1.5 years ago but still nice.

 

[Blythe]

Briss. You have have had your peak yet......I sometimes get big temp spikes pre ovulation. I hope it has gone back down tomorrow and the scan shows a nice follie.

I'm really sorry you had such a horrid start to the day.

Great about the weight loss.....I am inspired to join you.

 

[Briss]

I feel quite broken today.

Was trying to get Dr Hana's advice (my doc at reprofit) on this but she is off sick with a flu.

the doctor in Munich asked me to repeat scan/bloods tomorrow. he did not respond to my question just said he did not think taking progesterone last cycle was why my progesterone levels are elevated this cycle. But that's not what I asked. I feel there is a very strong language barrier with the Munich, their English is very limited and I cant seem to be able to explain my concerns… how frustrating

I do get temp spikes sometime before O but I actually do feel it was due to ovulation this time. my sex drive disappeared but it might be due to stress at work (had to work past midnight last night).

re diet, the fasting days are really hard but then after that you feel so happy that you can eat everything but in fact you do not really eat that much, somehow you do not need to. I obviously need to spend more time on this diet to understand how it works but so far I am inspired and I think there is something to it. and it's much easier to manage two fasting days than having every day as low calorie day as I used to.

if I do not get to Munich this week how will I explain my refusal for the Egypt trip? My lies are catching up with me, I need to invent some other imposition that prevented me from travelling to Munich now… or take a day off and stay at home pretending I am in Munich…

 

[Blythe]

Briss - i have put on weight since xmas and want to get back into losing. I am going to attempt my first fast day tomorrow.

i have just been reading a book a picked up earlier today on the way home from work [from local second hand shop] - it is:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fertility-...e+fertility+diet+sarah+dobbyn#customerReviews

and there is a bit about pre ovulation surges...i quote:

"canadian scientists found that all women have than one wave or peak period during the menstrual cycle when the follicles in the woman's ovaries prepare to release an egg.......for 60% of women there is one surge before ovulation itslf, when a follicle frows to 10mm ie a size capable of being released; and in the remaining 40% of women thre are two of these surges - each leading to a follicle developing to 10mm or larger leading the big event itself."

https://esask.uregina.ca/entry/follicular_waves.html

I am not sure about the detail here, particularly follie size. I will see if i can find the full report.

However, it might explain why i get EWCM around CD8 and then it disappears to return a few days later. i wish i could be scanned and bloods taken on every day of cycle to get a better idea of what the heck is going on.

I hate not knowing what is going on and i hate not having control over absolutely everything! But we just have to hand over that control when it comes to this stuff - i have found the circle and bloom meditations quite good and try and focus on developing eggs etc - it helps me focus on minute detail and breathing properly. I have yet to feel i have properly 'gone under' though.

Have you got anything you can listen to for 10/15 mins RIGHT NOW to just to give yourself a break from the stress of thinking about what could be going on.

all this aside - i hate to think of you being upset. i really think this cycle will be ok - a bit wonky and unlike recent ones but ok. Please update after tomorrows scan. Briss - it will happen for you - I know it!! please dont get upset anymore

 

[Briss]

Blythe, thank you so much for your constant support! It means a lot to me! it's just that i had my mind set on trying every cycle and I feel quite upset when we waste a cycle for any reason. I also feel like I can count all my remaining cycles

it's very interesting about pre ovulation surges, I did have higher temps before O in the past which I thought was a sign of heat and it actually got better after acu/herbs. I did not know this could be my body trying to O and stopping. Something to think about. if it was after my natural cycle I'd feel curious as to what happens but I'd go with my body. On this occasion I'm quite sure it's the effect of progesterone from the previous cycle so my body is trying to react to what I put it through , I think. I also suspect this has something to do with my general issue of ovulating earlier and having high FSH. Cant explain it but my instinct tells me that these things are somehow related.

I thought I'd share what one lady said about my issue, she also did several back to back natural IVFs in Europe before getting pregnant with retrofit (by adopting an embryo I think): "I looked at my old notes to see if there is some similarity with your case and, to my surprise, you are right! I had to cancel each cycle after the "successful" one (with ET). My follicles were small and my bloods were high. Could be just a coincidence, BUT... I think that your dr from Munich doesn't have an answer because I doubt that there is a reliable study on this topic." in a strange way this made me feel so much better, like I am not going crazy by suggesting this could be to do with ET/Progesterone from my previous cycle.

Reprofit unfortunately could not explain the reason for what's happening to my cycle the doc said though progesterone might postpone natural period it also stops ovulation so follicles should not start growing while you are still on progesterone. she is more inclined to think this is anovulatory cycle as sometimes body does what it wants. also she did not think reprofit will do IMSI in near future as they don´t find it beneficial for pregnancy rates.

I've been meaning to try the circle and bloom meditations for ages, really need to do it.

best of luck with your fasting day! It's going to be hard at first so stick to sparkling water it will get easier. you will feel triumphant the next day

The first thing that immediately happened to me after I started dieting is my huge tummy disappeared, I do not look pregnant anymore nothing still fits cos I did not get any smaller but it's a big change to my look so i am happy.

 

[Vonn]

I haven't done IVF & don't know the protocol, so sorry for the ignorance, but do you go on high levels of progesterone? Does it have to be so high?

I only ask because I take progesterone and it doesn't prevent anything from happening, getting my period, next month's ov, etc. I've got issues, though, and maybe I am not on enough progesterone, so I may be a horrible comparison!

The scan will tell you a lot tomorrow. Look forward to getting to the bottom of the mystery month.

Blythe--The info about a pre-ov temp rise is really interesting. I've noticed that happen a few times on my cycle & always wondered what it might mean. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Briss]

Vonn, you are so right! That's exactly what puzzles me - so many ladies just take progesterone after O to extend their LP or get rid of pre AF spotting etc Why am I reacting like this? Just does not make any sense, i alway thought progesterone was the most harmless of all hormones. and I agree maybe it's the dose or length maybe I should take less next time and stop or reduce after 11-12 DPO? but I was hoping the clinics would advise on this but they are just not connecting it to ET/Progesterone.

what is your plan for this cycle?

I ate so much grapes that went beyond 1000 calories, at least it's not chocolate I do need to get more exercise

 

[Vonn]

I know Galvan once was taking progesterone and had to stop it because she thought it was artificially keeping temps high and preventing AF. Not sure how much she was on or if it caused wonkiness next cycle for her. I thought it was bizarre since progesterone certainly never has done that for me.

As for my plan this month, I go (with DH) to a new RE on Friday. I'll be really interested to see what this dr has to say. I'm working on my list of questions!

 

[Briss]

Vonn, good luck with your appointment with the new RE. I hope he can answer all your questions. I also usually put together a list, sometimes doctors laugh when they see my list but I do not really care as long as I get as much info as I need from the appointment.

If progesterone does not stop your AF you may need to up your dose but obviously under medical supervision. Progesterone's role is indeed to keep your temp up and prevent AF. as long as you take progesterone you should not be getting AF. so usually if a lady has short LP say 10 days she would take progesterone so her AF comes later and LP is longer to allow implantation to take place. Sometime you go on holiday and want your AF to come after you are back so you take progesterone until the end of your holiday so you could have a swim without having to use tampons etc as soon as your progesterone levels drop whether naturally or because you stopped taking progesterone it's a signal to the body that AF should start because there is no pregnancy. that's one line of hormones AF-Progesterone. At the same time you have oestrogen – follicles development line of hormones that happen in parallel. to put it simply (although it's obviously far more complicated and no one really knows exactly how this works as far as I gathered from my reading), as your progesterone starts to go down usually from about 10 DPO or so, your estrogen levels (and FSH as well I think) start rising to prepare new follicles for the next cycle. theoretically the start of follicle development should coincide with the start of AF but I guess it's not always like that. and when you take progesterone there is a gap between you stopping it and your body being ready for AF – several days. My view is that follicles can start developing during that gap while your actual cycle has not started yet – hence abnormally early ovulation. One thing that was strange about this cycle is my period was suddenly cut short after 5 days – that's super rare for me and it usually happens during IVF when I take FSH, so my immediate thought was that my FSH is high which means I will be ovulating early but I obviously did not expect anything like day 8 ovulation.

my temp is still up this morning so looks like I will be wasting 400 pounds on scans and bloods only to confirm that this cycle is over.

My weight is also up – that's just annoying! I was so hoping yesterday's drop was real but looks like it was just due to water fluctuation. so my real weight has not changes since I started dieting. I am not discouraged because I know it will take a bit of time to get my body realise that it needs to start using reserve rather than trying to survive on my current calorie intake. I really need to add exercise to help my body alone. Definitely tonight!

 

[Briss]

My today's bloods showed that progesterone levels have increased a lot suggestive of ovulation and since my temp has been up I reconciled to the fact that it's all over this cycle. I was not even sure I was going for a scan – seemed like a waste of money. The scan actually made it all even more confusing than before. On one hand it showed that one of the follicles on the left side had irregular shape and a signs of haemorrhage – suggestive of rapture/ovulation. however, at the same time my estrogen levels have also increased and follicles have actually grown since Tuesday (the largest were 12.9/10.3/9.4 compared to 7.5/6.4/5.1 on Tuesday)!! How is this even possible to have both estrogen and progesterone increasing?? progesterone is supposed to stop follicles from developing and yet they are growing. I do not even know what to think anymore

 

[Vonn]

Oh my goodness, Briss, I thought for sure today's scan would clarify everything! Is it possible things got so messed up that you might actually ramp up to ov again? I hope the Munich dr can shed some light on this. And I am really surprised their English is not very good. I thought most all were practically fluent in it as they start taking it in 5th grade. At least that was the case when I was an exchange student there many years ago!

I wish I had known that taking progesterone could delay my AF last April when I got AF on the 2nd day of my honeymoon! I figured there was no way around it as we were TTC so I certainly wasn't on any bc.

For me, I think my progesterone is being blocked from doing its job well by my thyroid. I know it can really interfere. I think this because my progesterone result was very high--26--at 7 DPO, but my cycle indicates low P, so something is messing up its work. Plus, I have other nagging thyroid issues so I know I am not optimally treated yet. On the list to talk to my new RE about!!

 

[Blythe]

Briss - not sure what to make of all that info....how confusing. i hope the Dr comes back to you soon and with some clear advice.

My fasting day went well until I came home and ate beans on toast..followed by 5 squares of dark choc..I had a headache from lack of food and just could not stand it anymore. It's also so cold I needed something warm to eat.

I will go shopping after work tomorrow and stock up on veg.

I really hope this cycle turns out to be a goer. How enormously frustrating and upsetting it must be for you.

 

[Briss]

got my verdict today – no surprises: "progesterone indicates ovulation already happened so repeat scan/bloods on day 7 of your next cycle". the doc did not answer any of my questions as to why and what's happening with estrogen and follicle growth. I will be sending my forms and documents to Gennet next week to start the process with them as their waiting list is quite long but I am still giving Munich a chance. after all they were really spot on saying from the outset that ovulation took place. even though at the time it seemed ridiculous to me. honestly day 8 ovulation?? WTF! my CBFM is as confused as I am so it's high all the way. probably can stop testing now and save some sticks. Shame I started testing on day 7 this cycle, may it would have given me a peak on day 6. we'll never know now. I am not even sure this was proper ovulation, the follicle cant just disappear, in case of ovulation it collapses but it's still there and they can usually see it changes it's colour and form. on day 8 there was no such follicle or maybe they just did not see it cos they were not looking for it. The sonographers are pretty useless I must say, they keep thinking my cyst is a dominant follicle pretty much every time

I also contacted another clinic in Munich but they have not responded yet.

no weight loss so far… last week and this week my weight is the same, how disappointing. I actually also could not stop eating last night, we went to see Swan Lake and obviously one glass of Champaign after the other, then ice cream and some snacks – in the end I went over 1,300 calories. On fasting days I find it helpful if I save most of my calories for the evening – that's when I really struggle. determined to carry on with 2:5 but I really need to add exercise. I actually ordered some of older J Fonda workouts, they finally put them on DVDs but not sure yet if they play on my machine, they are US region. They are the only types of workout I can actually enjoy and stick to.

I am not sure about headache, I can see how being cold can make you want to eat. maybe you could try a small amount of hot porridge for dinner? it's warming and filling and it helps me a lot. also maybe some hot stew or stimmed veg?

 

[Blythe]

Just a quick one. If you go via oe cycle no waiting list.

 

[Briss]

Blythe, thanks. do you know if the price is the same?

just had an hour with J fonda, feel like million dollars! I really jumped around so hopefully my weight loss can finally kick in

 

[Blythe]

which jane fonda do you do- i was looking on line and not sure which one to go for?

consultation refundable against treatment - all scans included in one cost - so £746 580 payable up to day of ec and final 166 payable on day of et]

and if selected additional cost of following

PICSI = £124
IMSI = £544
embroyglue = £91

 

[Blythe]

hang on - i meant to say....


natural cycle ivf is £746 in total - with 580 payable up to the day of EC and then remaining amount payable upon transfer