DD refusing milk-on infant gaviscon for possible reflux

[MaybBaby]

Hi guys,
It's been awhile since I've been on and I've found getting time for myself tough but i'm beginning to break down with DD, when DS was a baby 3 years ago he was diagnosed with silent reflux, somehow miraculously infant gaviscon sorted him out (albeit he could only take 4oz feeds every 2 hours till weaned fully but still) - it seems I'm having repeat process with DD, but this time she's worse than DS. DD has been on gaviscon for about 3 weeks now and at first she did great she was draining a fair few 5oz feeds - prior to this she would scream upon sight of the bottle and fight me until I gave up and then she would coo and smile at me happy that she wasn't going to be fed. Upon this I called the local HV for advice as of course she then became constipated and they requested to see her, when weighed she had dropped a centile and I am due back to the HV for her weigh in (and 2nd imms). Anyway back to the point we are one 1/2-1 sachet a feed and here are the symptoms I endure every feed:
* screams when teat is placed inside mouth,will eventually take a few sips then break down kicking and screaming again
*she only consumes 2oz a feed on a good day 4oz (she used to take about 5oz)
*shes began to posset small amounts of milk again
*dribbles excessively with insane amounts of spit bubbles
*would prefer to drink water over milk although she screams at the bottle because she thinks it's milk you are giving her
*has started to become unsettled at night and has began wanting to use a dummy (prior she never needed a dummy at night time)
*will only relax for a feed if her legs and bum are bounced on my knee whilst feeding her
*gags on the teat to an excessive amount sometimes to the point where she brings up what she's just consumed, she also does this throughout the day which suggest silent reflux is afoot
*can go too long between feeds especially after night - most nights she wakes for a feed around 3:30 and won't want to feed til 8am and that's a fight to get it down her, I don't know how she can do this surely she must be so hungry??
*she smells of Puke all the time, after a bath she smells of puke!!
*her naps are now becoming broken,normally a 9am 12pm and 3:30pm nap are had she now breaks them into half hour segments dotted throughout the day


She has bottles usually 7:30am, 11am, 2-3pm,
5:30/6pm (bedtime) 10pm, 3:30am

Her weight is now on 25th centile

I've currently tried the following and still doing most:
*raising mattress in her bed
*infacol
*dentinox colic drops
*infant gaviscon
*feeding in her chair (this sometimes has some good success)
*variflow teats
*differing milk temps
*different brands of bottle

She's a bright smiling happy girl, doing most things at 3 months (attempting to roll, giggle, is enjoying knocking blocks over) so I've no concerns over lethargy or anything and she has plenty of wet nappies and every other day she has some good poos too.

I feel at a loss, her weight looks as though it isn't picking up and the HV's don't seem to be much help other than the threat of 'keeping a close eye on my baby' which worries me to no end,
I'm taking her back to the doctors tomorrow to review her infant gaviscon anyway but any advice would be very greatly appreciated!!


Thanks ladies


Forgot to mention we are feeding on hipp organic stage 1 milk too

 

[Rainbow82]

Have you tried the usual anti reflux and comfort milks? If so then push the Dr for a referral. We are in a similar position with the weight gain. DS has dropped from 70th centime at birth, to 5 which he followed for about ten weeks to 25th centile two weeks ago at 22 weeks. As he's five months Dr wants us to wean him but he hasn't lost his tongue thrust reflex yet. Have doesn't seem too concerned with his weight though. Hopefully Dr can refer you quickly.

 

[MaybBaby]

Have you tried the usual anti reflux and comfort milks? If so then push the Dr for a referral. We are in a similar position with the weight gain. DS has dropped from 70th centime at birth, to 5 which he followed for about ten weeks to 25th centile two weeks ago at 22 weeks. As he's five months Dr wants us to wean him but he hasn't lost his tongue thrust reflex yet. Have doesn't seem too concerned with his weight though. Hopefully Dr can refer you quickly.

Thank you for the reply chick - no I did ask about comfort milk and my HV poo pooed the idea without any knowledge basis or anything I felt a little stumped myself - we had a rough road too my breastmilk didn't come in and DD dropped from 50th to 2nd centile within 3 days after birth but she steadily regained to 50th come 6weeks and then had been steadily dropping but following a curve? Then the last weigh in she dropped to the bottom of 25th (my son stayed on 9th centile til he was 1 years old!) thanks I'm hoping my dr understands he was reluctant to prescribe infant gavi but only agreed because I had tried infacol and dentinox colic drops!

 

[_Meep_]

My daughter was exactly like this. She was (is) breastfed, but from about 6-8 weeks we went through consistent spells of exactly what you describe, right down to the insane dribbling.

For a long time, I could only feed her when she was asleep.

She was never diagnosed with silent reflux as the only times she ever really seemed unhappy were when I was trying (desperately) to feed her. Through constant lack of sleep and determination to get her on the breast as much as possible as soon as she fell asleep, I managed to keep her weight up, but it was Hell.

Looking back on it now, I think silent reflux probably was at work - these days, if she is teething or unwell, we often see a re-emergence of her refluxy symptoms.

The nursing strikes stopped though following revision of a submucosal posterior (hidden at the back) tongue tie at 4.5 months that several professionals refused to acknowledge was there. In the end we took her to see a specialist and it was confirmed and cut. Things got better after that. She never refused the breast again.

I think a combination of factors contributed to our daughter's feeding problems, but it's well known that a tongue tie can cause all of the problems you have listed above. If you haven't already had her checked for ties, posterior or otherwise, I would definitely recommend it. Posterior ties are frequently missed by professionals, as they are practically invisible, but an IBCLC or specialist should be able to spot one.

 

[MaybBaby]

My daughter was exactly like this. She was (is) breastfed, but from about 6-8 weeks we went through consistent spells of exactly what you describe, right down to the insane dribbling.

For a long time, I could only feed her when she was asleep.

She was never diagnosed with silent reflux as the only times she ever really seemed unhappy were when I was trying (desperately) to feed her. Through constant lack of sleep and determination to get her on the breast as much as possible as soon as she fell asleep, I managed to keep her weight up, but it was Hell.

Looking back on it now, I think silent reflux probably was at work - these days, if she is teething or unwell, we often see a re-emergence of her refluxy symptoms.

The nursing strikes stopped though following revision of a submucosal posterior (hidden at the back) tongue tie at 4.5 months that several professionals refused to acknowledge was there. In the end we took her to see a specialist and it was confirmed and cut. Things got better after that. She never refused the breast again.

I think a combination of factors contributed to our daughter's feeding problems, but it's well known that a tongue tie can cause all of the problems you have listed above. If you haven't already had her checked for ties, posterior or otherwise, I would definitely recommend it. Posterior ties are frequently missed by professionals, as they are practically invisible, but an IBCLC or specialist should be able to spot one.

Thanks I never would have thought of tongue tie actually - I'll mention it to the gp tomorrow I'm just hoping they take her seriously (gladly these are a far better docs that I had previously) DD has coasted on 2oz each feed today and exactly as u say she has been asleep in her chair for each one - pretty emotionally drained with it all, my husband has yet to even feed her because of it all its very distressing to see her the way she is and I fear she has began to associate feeds with upset and being fretful, I've been reading other threads etc on what has happened to many other moms. Ranitidine has been mentioned countless amounts of times and formulas such as enfamil AR and nutrimagen(sp?) I've seen, has anyone any experience of these? How likely a GP is to look into prescribing the products and what they do etc? I really wanted to refrain from medication (if it's not tongue tie of course etc) but if it's the only way to help I'll go with it. She's currently fighting her sleep gnawing her fists at the moment, grinning at me like nothing has ever upset her she's a great character but I feel awful that she won't take her milk!

 

[sezzolou]

For Ds1 who had silent reflux we found aptimil anti-reflux formula made a difference and he wasn't as constipated as when he was on gaviscon. He ended up on ranitidine until he was 14 months. He still has flare ups now at 2.5yo when he is teething but it is much more manageable. Ds2 has reflux...the vomiting kind but isn't bothered by it and is gaining weight so fortunately we have managed to avoid medication/anti-reflux formula.

Just to add...infacol made things a lot worse for ds1'd silent reflux as it helps bring the wind up which made his reflux worse.

 

[MaybBaby]

Ah you have a valid point there I have been adding infacol to her feeds because since gavi has been introduced she's been a nightmare to wind. It seems no matter what we do it means you sacrifice something else and you have to weigh the pros and cons of each thing, I wanted to avoid lactulose for her incase lactose is an issue but can't know until it's tried, ranitidine has been suggested to me and I've been told to physically ask for it. What's crud (how 90s) is the fact that we are having to physically ask for these things when our trust should be with the medical professional to assess and give medications correctly, here's hoping I walk away tomorrow with results that will help DD it's such a shame to see this beautiful girl looking at me cooing and smiling and within seconds screaming in pain

 

[jodilee6]

Gaviscon was a nightmare for my little guy, it constipated him horribly and just made his sick thick which he was then choking on

He's now on renatidine 3x a day and 2/3 mix of anti reflux and normal milk, anti reflux milk on its own also caused him to be constipated.

also my guy never got on well with variflow teats, it was just too much milk at one go for him so I just use the fastest flow test

I feel your pain, it's taken weeks and countless Drs appointments to finally have found something that's suited to him, don't be afraid to say the gaviscon isn't working and that you want to try something else

Hugs

 

[MaybBaby]

Gaviscon was a nightmare for my little guy, it constipated him horribly and just made his sick thick which he was then choking on

He's now on renatidine 3x a day and 2/3 mix of anti reflux and normal milk, anti reflux milk on its own also caused him to be constipated.

also my guy never got on well with variflow teats, it was just too much milk at one go for him so I just use the fastest flow test

I feel your pain, it's taken weeks and countless Drs appointments to finally have found something that's suited to him, don't be afraid to say the gaviscon isn't working and that you want to try something else


Hugs

Thanks - this is exactly how it is I've gotta call at 8 to try get her in overnight she woke at half 1 crying for milk only took 1oz and then had a sip at 4am which is really out of whack for her-I kinda put it down to wanting to fully sleep through the night but something in my gut says it's not (after all my son didn't sleep through the night til past 1) fingers crossed I can try ranitidine with her but as u say gavi has really backed her up too I asked the HV any other methods to combat it other than water baby massage warm baths etc she just said 'give her more water' then with her weight I got 'give her more milk' I ended up asking which I should prioritise as she literally just contradicted herself and she shrugged and went 'erm milk as her weight isn't so great' - oh thanks a bloody bunch NOT!

 

[jodilee6]

Good luck, I hope you manage to get to see the dr

It does make a huge difference to sleep, we've gone from being up every hour crying in pain to sleeping from 8:30-3:30 waking for a quick feed then back to sleep until 8am

 

[MaybBaby]

Well DD has had her check over and gladly took a 5oz feed (albeit with some
Fussing but not screaming) this morning-because of this the doctor is unsure whether it really is reflux but I pointed out the the gaviscon has indeed stopped her vomitting but continues to smell of bile - he pondered an lactose issue and has prescribed Colief first before going down the harder drugs route :/ he looked at the red book and thought the HV's were a little on the scaremongering side as he reckons she's just a slightly slimmer child judging from her beginning weight just after birth,he's told me to give it 2 weeks max if no joy with gavi and Colief he will immediately refer her to a paed as he doesn't want to keep prescribing the incorrect things. I'm a bit listless with it all but he seemed very genuine about it, he says what puzzles him most is her stomach is soft she's not tensing it in consistent pain it's only at feeds and there's no lethargy, upset or anything to concern him within herself.

im just grateful he made
The statement of hospital if this doesn't work,I'll give it a week max anyway not 2, for me that's far too long for her to not feed properly if it continues.

I have a weigh in tomorrow so let's see what happens then too, that's a whole new ball game!!!