endo and TTC....help!!

[trying41]

I am 34 my husband is 35. I became pregnant at age 27 while on bc pills. At age 29 tried for baby#2 and became pregnant immediately after stopping bc pills. That pregnancy resulted in a blighted ovum and miscarried.

We have been trying since then to become pregnant with no luck at all. Sperm levels are great. I ovulate on my own. I tried clomid for a year then switched to femera and have been taking it for the last 3yrs. I have tried 4 or 5 IUI's with no luck. I even tried bc pills again for a few months since my last pregnancies occurred while taking them. No luck with anything.

I have had 2 HSG's with everything seeming perfect. This past August I had a lap to determine if endo was a culprit. Two small patches were found. One near my right ovary was able to be removed, but the other under my left ovary could not be removed because it was close to my bladder.

IVF has been suggested by my dr. But it is sooo expensive and I am afraid that it may not work since everything else has failed.

Has anyone else had everything look perfect except for minimal/mild endo and had so much difficulty? Any suggestions on what may work or what to try next?

 

[Milty]

I know it's been a bit since you posted but I had an idea for ya.

I've been unexplained since I was 23 or so. Had 1 DS naturally when on a break at 29. I've been TTC since 1 year after he was born and I'm 38.

I had never had a BFP until pg with my DS and then again once I figured out my problem on my own in Aug of 2012. Then I got 5 BFP in an 8month time frame. All were chemicals because I had a second problem of stage 4 endo. Now I know it may seem like that was my problem all along but I had a lap that showed no endo. I had an HSG 3 years before my second lap that showed my tubes were fine and my uterus & tubes were where they should be. Then 3 years later in my second lap (after all the CP) I discovered my left tube was tangled around other organs and filled with holes. Also my uterus was in the wrong spot attached to my left abdominal side wall. Also I was covered in endo.

So in a 3 to 4 year time frame i went from no signs of endo to being total screwed on the inside. I explained all that so you would know endo had not been my problem all along but was keeping me from having good implantation.

What was keeping me from getting pg was immature eggs. This is my theory as I did not do ICSI just to prove it to my docs. See I would hyper ovulate and O early I my cycle. I believe my eggs were just not mature enough to fertilize. Now they looked normal on my scans and my Progesterone was on the low side of normal but everything looked normal. My progesterone would average between 8 to 12 on a non med cycle.

I had high levels of estrogen (which explains the endo) and long surges. I think this caused me to O when my egg wasn't quite ready yet. So what I did was add to my supplements to increase egg quality such as zinc and coq10. I added supplements to even out my hormones such as nettle tea and black cohosh. This made me feel better but was not enough.

So the big thing I did was I used a tiny bit of Progesterone cream at the beginning of my cycle in order to delay O. The first month I did I got pg. I did it those 8 months and got pg 5 times so I know that's what made the difference.

I stopped doing it because I started on Clomid and didn't want to mess it up. I did not get pg on the Clomid.

Then I had my lap and found the endo. This is my first month TTC since then so we will see if it worked.

I don't know if this will help you or not but I thought I would share just incase any of this sounded familiar.

 

[popchick75]

I have a few questions for you. Your story sounds sort of similar to mine.

I got preg with DD 14 years ago with no problem. Trying for 10 years now...IUIs, IVF...nothing. Not one single BFP during the entire time trying.

I know i have long surges, but don't have PCOS which i know can cause high LH. My LH levels have always been in the normal range, but again, last forever. I also ovulate early in the cycle...around day 12. I've had 3 HSGs that have all come back clear. When I was pregnant, my progesterone levels were also on the low side of normal so I had to take pills to raise the levels.

When exactly did you use the progesterone cream in your cycle and for how long? The first few cycle days, or more around CD8-12 when you were closer to normal ovulation time? Did you ovulate early in your cycle also, or just have the longer surges? I've used the cream in the TWW, but never though to use it earlier to delay ovulation.

I'm really hoping you see this and answer it...very curious to find out more!

 

[Milty]

I would O early on CD 12 or 13 on average and sometimes earlier. My LH levels were normal also but my surge would be very long. I would have OPKS close to positive for a week and positive for a couple days. The vitamin B helped some and increased my LP 2 days from 12 to 14 days. I use the cream on CD 1 & 2. I also have a prescription Progestrone pill I take during the 2 WW.

I actually was unexplained infertility before my DS was born. I TTC for 3 or 4 years and saw a lot of specialist but I could not afford IVF at the time. I quit TTC as I was just wanting to move on with my life. I didn't use any birth control and became PG about 2 years after I quit TTC. Since I wasn't trying I have no idea if I had a latter O or if anything else was different. I BF my DS so I didn't get AF until he was close to 1. I havnt used any protection since 1995 and he was my only positive until Aug. 2012. That's when I added the cream at the beginning of my cycle. I then had 5 CP in the next 8 months. So I know that was the problem.

Turns out I had a second problem as I developed endo and my uterus had moved and was stuck sideways on the wall of my abdomen along with several other organs. There was pretty much no way I could carry a baby the way I was. I was surprised my the endo and how messed up I was because I had had a lap in the past and had a normal HSG in Jan 2011.

 

[popchick75]

I think I'm going to give that a try. We have given up any treatments, but what you've said makes me curious. I'm already on cd 8ish so it's too late for this month, but i'll give it a shot next month. Thank you for the info and good luck to you!

 

[Fliss]

I have been diagnosed with moderate to severe endo (last Monday) - got an MRI coming. I have no idea how I conceived Nathan, since I was apparently 'lucky'. All I can tell you is what I did:

• The Sperm Meets Egg Plan.
• Taking Agnus Castus CD 1-6 inclusive
• Taking Vitamin B6 and Folic Acid daily
• Used OPKS
• Temped using BBT
• CM checking

I don't know if it worked but the third month of trying all that we fell with him. I know that 6 months is no length of time TTC compared to some, but that's what we did xxxx

 

[popchick75]

I don't know if i have endo or not. I've been through just about every other test and procedure in the book. Since my tubes were clear and uterus and ovaries were always in the correct place on ultrasounds and HSGs, the docs always didn't want to do a lap in case it would cause scar tissue.
I'm unexplained, but there have always been a few odd things here and there that no one could explain: very long LH surges, very bad ovulation cramping, regular ovulation on day 12 on unmedicated cycles, low antral count despite great AMH levels. I usually had a slow rise in temps after ovulation and steady temps after that as opposed to steadily rising.
The part that i always found amazing was that in 10 years of trying (including IVF and IUIs) we never had a chemical or a bfp/miscarriage.

 

[popchick75]

I would O early on CD 12 or 13 on average and sometimes earlier. My LH levels were normal also but my surge would be very long. I would have OPKS close to positive for a week and positive for a couple days. The vitamin B helped some and increased my LP 2 days from 12 to 14 days. I use the cream on CD 1 & 2. I also have a prescription Progestrone pill I take during the 2 WW.

I actually was unexplained infertility before my DS was born. I TTC for 3 or 4 years and saw a lot of specialist but I could not afford IVF at the time. I quit TTC as I was just wanting to move on with my life. I didn't use any birth control and became PG about 2 years after I quit TTC. Since I wasn't trying I have no idea if I had a latter O or if anything else was different. I BF my DS so I didn't get AF until he was close to 1. I havnt used any protection since 1995 and he was my only positive until Aug. 2012. That's when I added the cream at the beginning of my cycle. I then had 5 CP in the next 8 months. So I know that was the problem.

Turns out I had a second problem as I developed endo and my uterus had moved and was stuck sideways on the wall of my abdomen along with several other organs. There was pretty much no way I could carry a baby the way I was. I was surprised my the endo and how messed up I was because I had had a lap in the past and had a normal HSG in Jan 2011.

When you had your chemicals, how far along did you get? Tests with progression, missed period, betas?

 

[Milty]

They were all very early. I only had blood work on 4 if them an honestly had I not been so focused on figuring out what was wrong I would not have known. My highest beta was only 17. So if I was not using super sensitive tests & getting betas I would have had no idea.

With my first CP my beta was only 4. So I upped the amt of Progestrone I was using. My 4th beta was 17. Then on my 5th CP I had clear positives on a FRER but did not get a beta so I'm guessing my levels went to 20 or 25 ish.

I can say my primary infertility was not due to endo. I had a Lap before that was clear. So I believe that my ovulating immature eggs was or is my long term issue then now that I improved that I had implantation faliure due to endo.

If I get pg again and it's another CP I will increase the # of days I use the cream. Also I will increase my zinc and CoQ10 ect.

 

[Milty]

I have been diagnosed with moderate to severe endo (last Monday) - got an MRI coming. I have no idea how I conceived Nathan, since I was apparently 'lucky'. All I can tell you is what I did:

• The Sperm Meets Egg Plan.
• Taking Agnus Castus CD 1-6 inclusive
• Taking Vitamin B6 and Folic Acid daily
• Used OPKS
• Temped using BBT
• CM checking

I don't know if it worked but the third month of trying all that we fell with him. I know that 6 months is no length of time TTC compared to some, but that's what we did xxxx

I just wanted to say you can't see endo with ultra sounds or MRI unless your organs are not in the right spot. Even if they are in the the wrong place they still might not know. We were completely floored to find my endo and it was shocking how bad it was.

 

[Fliss]

Well all I know is that I'm having the scan on the 24th April - lord knows what it'll show but they seemed to think it'll show something... fingers crossed eh?

 

[Milty]

Let us know how it goes

 

[Fliss]

I will do - I wonder if it's got something to do with the fact I'm being referred overall for laser removal surgery (well according to my notes anyway - no-one's actually told ME what the hell they're actually doing!!!!)

 

[popchick75]

Just ovulated yesterday and am going to go ahead and give the progesterone cream a shot during the tww. Next month i'll add the cream on cd1 and 2. I'll get a package of ICs to test and see if i can catch something early. It feels like a science experiment

Not sure how great our timing was this month...only bd 2 and 4 days before O.

 

[Milty]

I'm curious to see if it does anything for you. I felt like I was experimenting too!

 

[popchick75]

I'm around 6dpo. Right when i started the cream i had sore boobs and nipples, but that has faded. Every now and then i'm a little crampy, but nothing overly out of the ordinary. I'm not really expecting anything, but your story was so similar to mine that i think i would regret not at least giving it a try

 

[popchick75]

I'm curious to see if it does anything for you. I felt like I was experimenting too!

Hi Milty,

I'm about 11dpo and still on the progesterone cream. It's been sort of a rough go with the cream due to the side effects. It's made me sort of crampy and have had really sore bb's starting a few days after i began using it. Feeling slightly sick and sweaty has also increased over the past week. I always get crazy bad side effects with any sort of progesterone or ovulation stimulation drug, so this wasn't unexpected.

Yes, i've tested with wondfos, but haven't gotten anything other than the 'shadow line' that everyone else seems to get also. I'll keep testing over the next few days and if nothing, then i'll stop the cream at 14dpo. I guess i didn't expect a miracle, but at the same time it was sort of interesting to be experimenting a little again

a.

 

[Fliss]

Good luck

 

[Briss]

Milty, can i ask if your cycles were short before you had your first lap? did they at all change after you first lap? I am asking cos I wonder if there is a connection between you developing endo and the first lap.

I had a lap in 2012 which showed that everything was OK but after that my cycle became very short 22, 23 days then gradually increased to 25 and currently stay at 25 day with O on CD11. but before Lap my cycles were 26-29 days. also my FSH increased after that lap. I had a chat with a Dr today who is not related to my FS and he suggested that the lap is to blame for my cycles getting sorter. basically it seems like following the lap my brain started producing more FSH because ovaries or part of the ovary stopped being receptive to it so the brain thinks ovaries need more FSH. while ovaries are actually do not need any more but because they get more from the brain they start working faster and I ovulate sooner making my cycle short. indeed after the lap I ovulated on CD 9 and had 22 and 23 day cycle! he said most people get very positive outcome from laps and more women get spontaneously pregnant even if lap does not seem to resolve or find any issues but there is a small percentage of women who get their cycles screwed by this procedure. basically bad luck

 

[Milty]

I'm curious to see if it does anything for you. I felt like I was experimenting too!

Hi Milty,

I'm about 11dpo and still on the progesterone cream. It's been sort of a rough go with the cream due to the side effects. It's made me sort of crampy and have had really sore bb's starting a few days after i began using it. Feeling slightly sick and sweaty has also increased over the past week. I always get crazy bad side effects with any sort of progesterone or ovulation stimulation drug, so this wasn't unexpected.

Yes, i've tested with wondfos, but haven't gotten anything other than the 'shadow line' that everyone else seems to get also. I'll keep testing over the next few days and if nothing, then i'll stop the cream at 14dpo. I guess i didn't expect a miracle, but at the same time it was sort of interesting to be experimenting a little again

a.

Did you continue to use the cream to CD1 & 2? I hope the side effects got better for. I do have the same type of things like sore boobs but I get them in the 2 WW anyway.

Let us know how it went and if you did continue to use it did it push your O to later in your cycle.