Help! So confused!

[Emmea12uk]

My little Tom is 10 days old now and we are having so much trouble breastfeeding! Whilst he was in hospital, for the first few days he was tube fed, then i started breast feeding and he was latching on fine - but one of the nurses syringe fed him and they started topping him up with formula. Ever since then i couldnt get him to latch at all. i started using nipple shields which seemed to work perfectly - but I am now totally confused as to whether he is getting enough.

He feeds for an hour - an hour and a half falling asleep every 5-10 mins. I wind him and put him back on and we go like this for hours. He has milk round his mouth, but I noticed he isnt swallowing so much. I strip him down to his nappy and change him before hand to make sure he is awake.

He also sleeps for six hours and now when he wakes he isnt crying or demanding a feed unless i am hugging him. He also has a dummy which is a big breast feeding no no, but the nursesdidnt tell me this when i said he could have one.

I tried pumping to feed him a bottle at night to speed his feeding up and it worked a treat - only he slept for 6 hours before i woke him and tried breast feeding him - he only fed for 20 minutes before going back to sleep for another 6 hours where i woke him! After which I tried to breastfeed him again and he wasnt interested at all.

I have expressed three times today and only got 70mls! Do i not have enough milk and is this why he is so sleepy?? He is constantly dirtying his nappy - but then he may be incontinent. He is wetting too, but it is hard to tell how much.

Sooo stressed out and confused. I really really want to breastfeed - but i feel like the nurses ruined my chances and now i am worried he is under nourished.

Help anyone please??!! I have read so much stuff and it doesnt seem to help!

 

[Munchkin]

Hey,
I had a very similar experience with my LO!
He wouldn't feed for me and slept all the time - which meant my supply wasn't great. And I think it ended up in a vicious circle of baby not feeding and then being too tired for next feed, so he slept all the time. I was advised to top him up with 1 oz of formula at each feed. But without the bottle. I had a feeding tube which I used to slip into his mouth while he was on the breast, so he never knew he was getting formula, so it didn't out him off the breast. I was also pumping as much as possible so my body was still getting the signal to produce more.

My LO also lost weight after coming back from hospital and to be honest, as much as I wanted to breast feed and I was being advised to breast feed, my baby wasn't getting enough and I SHOULD have been advised to top up with formula until he was strong enough to suck on his own. If you keep expressing, your supply will increase over a period of three days.

Also, at 10 days old, I was advised baby should be fed at least every 4 hours even through the night.

Tip for you - pump as much as you can at night, since this helps you to boost your supply much more.

Hope this helps some.

Mx

 

[Emmea12uk]

so shall i top up every feed with at least 1oz of my milk? and should i wake him every four hours?

i just fed him 2.5 ozs of breastmilk with a bottle and he seems awake.

 

[Samantha675]

I would keep him on the breast as much as you can. If he is having 3+ dirty diapers a day, then he is getting enough to eat. My son has about 4-6 bowel movements a day. Just chuck the pacifier, and the bottle and go for it. Also, they only time they produce the growth hormone is during sleep, so if he is going through a growth spurt he will sleep more. My son, will feed like mad for a few days, then just seem to sleep constantly for a few days. I just keep an eye on the diapers and how often he is dirtying them. I promise, you can make enough milk to satisfy your LO. I also would not let him go 6 hours without a feed at this stage, my LO at the most goes 4-41/2 hours.

 

[Holldoll]

Definitely don't top him off, your body won't know how much milk to produce. If you have the time, ditch the paci and let him use you so your body starts producing more milk. Bella ate pretty much every hour for the first 6 weeks. She wasn't really eating, just sucking. That's stopped now. I would do what Samantha said and ditch both! As long as there are 3 dirty diapers a day, he's getting plenty.

 

[Emmea12uk]

he is incontinent - so i can't see by his nappies - he is perminantly messy and has to be catheterised too

Whenever i express, i can't get more than 20-30mls each side and it takes forever. if i am finding it that hard, he must be finding it much harder. If i wake him up to feed him and he isnt interested he wont take my nipple or will fall asleep within a minute or two.

He isnt latching and i cannot seem to get him to no matter how hard i try. he is either nibbling or just sucking my nipple with no areola - this means he is hardly getting anything at all.

I think for tonight I am going to express after every feed and top him up with that. Unfortunately, I can only give him his top ups by bottle as I dont have anything else. As for the dummy, he wont go to sleep without one now and i just cant take him screaming all night.

i think i am stuck in a vicious circle of under producing milk due to him being in hospital and him not latching properly as well as nipple confusion. I really dont think there is a way out of it. God I hope to meet my midwife tomorrow - it sucks we came home on a friday so havent had a visit yet.

 

[Margerle]

I would keep him on the breast as much as you can. If he is having 3+ dirty diapers a day, then he is getting enough to eat. My son has about 4-6 bowel movements a day. Just chuck the pacifier, and the bottle and go for it. Also, they only time they produce the growth hormone is during sleep, so if he is going through a growth spurt he will sleep more. My son, will feed like mad for a few days, then just seem to sleep constantly for a few days. I just keep an eye on the diapers and how often he is dirtying them. I promise, you can make enough milk to satisfy your LO. I also would not let him go 6 hours without a feed at this stage, my LO at the most goes 4-41/2 hours.

Definitely don't top him off, your body won't know how much milk to produce. If you have the time, ditch the paci and let him use you so your body starts producing more milk. Bella ate pretty much every hour for the first 6 weeks. She wasn't really eating, just sucking. That's stopped now. I would do what Samantha said and ditch both! As long as there are 3 dirty diapers a day, he's getting plenty.

YES resounding and multiple YES YES YES.

Well said ladies.

 

[Margerle]

he is incontinent - so i can't see by his nappies - he is perminantly messy and has to be catheterised too

Whenever i express, i can't get more than 20-30mls each side and it takes forever. if i am finding it that hard, he must be finding it much harder. If i wake him up to feed him and he isnt interested he wont take my nipple or will fall asleep within a minute or two.

Expressing milk is very difficult for most women to do. The average woman can only EVER express 1-2 oz from both breasts. EVER. So you are not abnormal. This is why it's so difficult for women who speak of "expressing" right after birth to maintain breastfeeding.

See the following thread: https://www.babyandbump.com/pregnancy-third-trimester/33810-pumping-destined-fail.html

He isnt latching and i cannot seem to get him to no matter how hard i try. he is either nibbling or just sucking my nipple with no areola - this means he is hardly getting anything at all.

You might be surprised. You don't mention any pain... Is it painful when he feeds?

I think for tonight I am going to express after every feed and top him up with that. Unfortunately, I can only give him his top ups by bottle as I dont have anything else. As for the dummy, he wont go to sleep without one now and i just cant take him screaming all night.

IMHO you need to stop expressing, and get him breastfeeding. No bottle. Dummies only after he feeds. This takes a good amount of sacrifice on your part, but isn't he worth it? I would think this added benefit of your milk would be very helpful to his already comprimised health.

i think i am stuck in a vicious circle of under producing milk due to him being in hospital and him not latching properly as well as nipple confusion. I really dont think there is a way out of it.

There is absolutely a solution for this, but it takes dedication and perserverance. He's going to be frustrated and confused. You just have to hang in there for the next few weeks as he relearns and gets comfortable with breastfeeding. The great part is, that your supply will automatically get better and better

God I hope to meet my midwife tomorrow - it sucks we came home on a friday so havent had a visit yet.

You should probably ALSO contact a good lactation consultant in your area. You obviously have had experience with MW's who aren't completely educated in good breastfeeding skills.

 

[Munchkin]

I agree - definitely see an lc - and also have baby weighed. If he is doing fine, they will advise you not to top him up... but really best for the professionals to advise. I was topping my boy up because he wasn't gaining weight at all and only started gaining 3 weeks after leaving hospital. Also depending on weight they should advise you on how often to feed - I was advised ever 2 - 2.5 hrs at that stage to boost supply. e.g. 7,9,11 etc so if a feed lasted 45 minutes then to stll feed 2 or 2.5hrs after the start of the first feed. Hope the midwife is able to advise. Get her to check your latch too.
All the best!

 

[Munchkin]

Forgot to say - the colour off baby's poo will indicate if he's getting enough or not.
Once the meconium is out of his system, he should be heading towards mustardy yellow poo.
https://www.babycentre.co.uk/baby/breastfeeding/greenstools/
Green stools would be in indication that he isn't getting enough.

 

[Ragirl]

The other ladies have already said it so well...I just wanted to offer my support. My son was nursing every 1-2 hours at this point- so feel free to ditch the passy & bottle and just let him nurse all the time if he wants. It will be good for the both of you. It will be a rough time of transition- I know it's hard for any of us to listen to our babies screaming- but that crying is also part of signalling your body to make more milk. And I certainly would not judge how much you are making by how much you are pumping. Hang in there.

 

[masi]

The la leche league are very good. I've got their helpline number for you, it's 0845 120 2918. UK obviously. Good luck!!

 

[tinytoes]

he is incontinent - so i can't see by his nappies - he is perminantly messy and has to be catheterised too

Whenever i express, i can't get more than 20-30mls each side and it takes forever. if i am finding it that hard, he must be finding it much harder. If i wake him up to feed him and he isnt interested he wont take my nipple or will fall asleep within a minute or two.

He isnt latching and i cannot seem to get him to no matter how hard i try. he is either nibbling or just sucking my nipple with no areola - this means he is hardly getting anything at all.


I think for tonight I am going to express after every feed and top him up with that. Unfortunately, I can only give him his top ups by bottle as I dont have anything else. As for the dummy, he wont go to sleep without one now and i just cant take him screaming all night.
.

Hi Emma, sorry to hear you're having a tough time of it! Obviously I am no expert adn Teddy is only 11 days old now so it's all new to me but all I can suggest is to not give up hope of producing more milk. My mid wife told me I need to express 5 times a day MINIMUM and to keep going until the milk runs out. She said that I need to do this so that I increase the amount of milk I produce. I've been aimijng for 5 times a day for just 2 or 3 days now and already my production has gone up. It's hard - I spend about 2.5 hours a day attached to the "milker" but so be it. I tend to give baby his bottle (expressed) milk first - about 50 or 60 ml if I can, and then offer him the boob (with or without nipple sheild depending on my level of pain that day!) afterwards if possible. Often he only has the bottle by day and at night the bottle followed by breast - it really helps him sleep. This might not be a standard routine but it's what works for us. And it just goes to show that babies can sometimes accept the shield, bottles and nipple.

Teddy now wakes every 2 or 3 hours for a feed but he can sleep lots too.

Good luck, keep pumping - you'll get there. You're using an electric pump I assume? One that pumps both sides at once?

But it is scarey not knowing how much baby is getting isnt it.
xxxx

 

[Emmea12uk]

Thank you all! But it turns out Tom is sick and that is why he is sleeping too long and feeding badly and he has now been readmitted to hospital for surgery.

Your comments are really useful! I will certainly bear them all in mind. I am going to try my hardest to stay with him in hospital and continue breastfeeding. hopefully he will be better soon and we can really make progress.

I can't seem to do without the shield - he just wont latch. So we are going to carry on with that. I am only going to top him up with breast milk from syringe only at nights when he really seems to have trouble feeding. Definately no more formula! And I am going to wake him up every four hours in the day time. Since pumping like mad my milk supply has gone up alot and he seems to be lapping it up for 20 minutes.

 

[masi]

You're doing a fantastic job. Hope everything goes well. I'm sure they'll give you plenty of support in hospital.

 

[Munchkin]

So sorry to hear that Tom is unwell. Really hope he gets better soon! Keep us posted ok.

 

[Tegans Mama]

Hey hun, congrats on baby Tom!!

Is he arching his back when you offer him food? It could be that he needs surgery to remove a small part of his brain at the top of his neck - one of the side effects of the Chiari II malformation is difficultly feeding.

Hope you are well

 

[Ragirl]

Sorry to hear he is sick. Good luck with the surgery Great job keeping at the bfing though!!

 

[Holldoll]

YES resounding and multiple YES YES YES.

Well said ladies.

We are learning from you! Someone has to be around when you are busy feeding baby!