Hind milk question?

[Mrsb3]

How long (on average) foes it take to get hind milk from each breast? My lo only snack through day for 5-7 mins at a time every 40 mins. But on an evening she goes 6-11 not stop but struggles like hell like she can't get enough out?? I've also posted about this problem a few mins ago but I'm now wondering if she is just getting foremilk all day long and gets cross on an evening because only hind is left. Very confused and exhausted!!! If she is getting just foremilk how can I get her to stop snacking and start taking a full meal and go longer than 40 mins??? She is 6 weeks btw

 

[Mummafrog]

Heya

It sounds like it's possible she is mainly getting foremilk. Do you change breast every 40 minutes? Foremilk digests the most quickly because it has less fat content so baby won't be full for very long at all. It can also cause them to go a lot and have green poos because of the high sugar content but they will still gain weight normally, even extra weight gain.
We were having this problem because I stopped putting her back to the same breast and started offering the other too soon.

I found this resource https://www.llli.org/faq/oversupply.html

It says about 'block feeding' which is what helped us. Basically within a certain period, I was doing it for at least two hours, offer the same breast rather than the next breast, this means they will access the fatty hindmilk and go longer between feeds and poo a bit less (in our experience).
I warn you that at first my little girl did fight drinking from the same breast a bit because she was so used to the thin foremilk coming out almost instantly but within a day she was used to working a bit harder to get the fatt milk out and was happy and everything is fine again.

Now she tends to do a full feed from one breast and if she wants a snack before her next full feed I offer her the same breast. Then a couple of hours later she can have the other one.

Hope this helps and you can sort it out xx

 

[Mrsb3]

Heya

It sounds like it's possible she is mainly getting foremilk. Do you change breast every 40 minutes? Foremilk digests the most quickly because it has less fat content so baby won't be full for very long at all. It can also cause them to go a lot and have green poos because of the high sugar content but they will still gain weight normally, even extra weight gain.
We were having this problem because I stopped putting her back to the same breast and started offering the other too soon.



I found this resource https://www.llli.org/faq/oversupply.html

It says about 'block feeding' which is what helped us. Basically within a certain period, I was doing it for at least two hours, offer the same breast rather than the next breast, this means they will access the fatty hindmilk and go longer between feeds and poo a bit less (in our experience).
I warn you that at first my little girl did fight drinking from the same breast a bit because she was so used to the thin foremilk coming out almost instantly but within a day she was used to working a bit harder to get the fatt milk out and was happy and everything is fine again.

Now she tends to do a full feed from one breast and if she wants a snack before her next full feed I offer her the same breast. Then a couple of hours later she can have the other one.

Hope this helps and you can sort it out xx

Hi, thank you! This helps a lot! I have started this morning block feeding and she is going 2 hours between feeds which is a whole lot better! However to wake her after 7 mins of feeding I have been changing her nappy but she is been sick(milk) coming back up and dribbling down her face- any suggestions?

Also I'm a little confused about how long to go on for because as they get older nursing sessions don't take as long? But how do I know if she is getting the hind milk when she is 6 months say? if it takes a newborn 40 mins does it go down each month of age? Sorry if I'm not making sense :-/

 

[Mummafrog]

Wow what a difference already! My LO is going mainly 2 hourly between feeds, it's normal in the day in this heat, especially around 5-6 weeks when they are having their first develomental 'wonder week'. Definitely keep going with it.

If they take a bit too much milk for themselves they will naturally bring it up, it isn't always a bad thing but if it seems specifically related to laying her flat then maybe just hold her upright for 5-10 minutes and see if she wakes for more. My LO often drifts off but within 5 minutes will be awake wanting more without encouragement, or I will put her back to the nipple and she will latch on with her eyes closed.

Well I'm no expert as this is my first baby! But I would suggest that how long she goes between feedings and the contents of her nappy (if it is mustard yellow with curdled milk white bits) is a good indicator that she is reaching the hindmilk.
If she eats for 5-7 minutes but then goes 2-4 hours without wanting more and her nappies are healthy then she is just feeding efficiently. If she wants more quite soon, odds are she didn't reach the hindmilk because the fat is what fills their tummy.
Does that make sense/answer the question?
X

 

[sheldonsmommy]

I was going to say that if it's hot, it seems like totally normal behaviour to have quick thirst-quenching sessions. But maybe you just have a quick letdown and it doesn't take baby long to eat. Babies that age also go through bouts of clusterfeeding, which are completely normal and help build your supply, as frustrating as it is.

Foremilk does have fat in it, so it's not that she won't be getting enough calories, and as long as you are hydrated the bm will have enough water to satisfy lo.

Sounds like the block feeding is really helping, so I'd keep it up if you find it easier. By 3, 4, 5 months, your supply should have regulated to exactly what lo needs, and she will feed for however long she needs but it usually isn't long at that age.

If she is peeing and pooping as normal, you can be assured that she is getting enough of both

 

[meli1981]

If a babies are having yellow and seedy poops then theyre getting the hindmilk...foremilk poops are green and watery

 

[Shandelion]

If you want her to get more hindmilk, you can pump prior to her eating so a lot of foremilk is already gone. You can also not switch breasts until one is empty. When I had oversupply issues, I only used one breast per day until nightfall, then gave him a big night feed for sleep. But he really hates empty boobs, you might encounter that problem.

 

[Pearls18]

There is no such thing as fore milk and hind milk, this has recently been discredited. The composition of milk is the same throughout the feed, the difference is the fat globules stick to the milk ducts so the longer a baby feeds the more fat they get towards the end of the feed. A baby will still gain weight on snacky feeds. My son was also a very snacky feeder, but very efficient, he often had green poos but was content and gained weight no problems. You won't have more "hind milk" at the end of the day, you will continually make the same milk.

Be careful with block feeding this advice is not something that is recommended so much these days as can mess with supply so not a good idea if you have supply issues. But that said you shouldn't need to change breast every feed if baby is feeding every 40 mins if they're not feeding very long. I would maybe stick to one breast for 2 hours, unless of course baby is not going back on and it feels drained, you may just have a very efficient feeder. I found distraction helped if I was trying to get my eldest to go longer between feeds so he took more next time.

If you think your let down is too fast and baby is spluttering meaning not feeding for long you could try expressing a little before a feed.

 

[Mrsb3]

Thank you ladies, this is all brill advice!

Mummafrog- how is your lo sleeping? My lo wakes us every 10 mins when I put her down through the day unless she is in her pram or the swing next to the washer she can go 30 mins. I rarely let her sleep on my arms or chest because I gave a 13 month old to sort out. I'm in the process of buying a sling though... But ultimately I would like her to fall asleep and stay asleep in her own. She does sleep through the night however she sleeps with me with her body against my boobs and belly- she latched her self on in the middle of the night lol like a little kitten

 

[Mummafrog]

She has been a great sleeper from the beginning really, we planned to and have co-slept from birth it's definitely working for us. I haven't mastered her latching on without me waking yet though! Maybe I should try sleeping with my breasts out and near her but I leak so much we both get wet and I worry about her getting cold That sounds wonderful though.

In the day she's also very good, we have never 'tried' to give her a nap she just gets tired and either wants to comfort suckle on me to sleep or drifts off and she'll sleep sometimes just 10 minutes but mostly more like 30 mins - an hour. I can't tell you how we do it though, she just does it! We know we're very blessed. Sometimes she lays on my chest but other times she would rather lay beside us or we can put her in her basket. We also baby-wear and whenever she is in the carrier and we're walking around she will drift off unless she needs something so I would definitely say it's worth a try if you've got your 13 month old to run after! What carrier are you going for?

I read something interesting about babies sleep cycles and how to recognise when they are in a deeper sleep so you can put them down. I thought this was interesting but can't vouch for the source or anything. https://www.askdrsears.com/topics/h...8-infant-sleep-facts-every-parent-should-know

XX

 

[Shandelion]

There is no such thing as fore milk and hind milk, this has recently been discredited. The composition of milk is the same throughout the feed, the difference is the fat globules stick to the milk ducts so the longer a baby feeds the more fat they get towards the end of the feed .

Where did you find this data?



MarineWAG is right, my suggestion could very well tamper with supply. It's mostly applicable for oversupply issues.

 

[Pearls18]

There is no such thing as fore milk and hind milk, this has recently been discredited. The composition of milk is the same throughout the feed, the difference is the fat globules stick to the milk ducts so the longer a baby feeds the more fat they get towards the end of the feed .

Where did you find this data?



MarineWAG is right, my suggestion could very well tamper with supply. It's mostly applicable for oversupply issues.

I've just done my breastfeeding management peer support course about 3 months ago, it was taught on the course but I will see if I can dig out my notes if it was in there. I know a lot of health professionals are still saying there are different types of milk, many don't keep training up to date here.

 

[Mrsb3]

My HV told me just a few days ago that the hind milk is in the evening when your boobs feel empty and the thirst quenching milk is in the morning- guess she has not had any training of late either then

 

[Pearls18]

My HV told me just a few days ago that the hind milk is in the evening when your boobs feel empty and the thirst quenching milk is in the morning- guess she has not had any training of late either then

Yeah I was told similar recently, I was surprised to find out as I thought there would be like a world wide memo or something lol. That said though I know there can be differences in milk in the time of day in terms of like sleepy milk iykwim so when I say the composition is the same I guess it's not necessarily identical with things other than fat maybe, it's just that you don't make two types of milk but the beginning of the feed will be more watery, so the idea of two milks isn't totally different but it does change the way advice is given now we know you don't run out of one kind. If this makes any sense!

 

[Sarah lo]

There is no such thing as fore milk and hind milk, this has recently been discredited. The composition of milk is the same throughout the feed, the difference is the fat globules stick to the milk ducts so the longer a baby feeds the more fat they get towards the end of the feed. A baby will still gain weight on snacky feeds. My son was also a very snacky feeder, but very efficient, he often had green poos but was content and gained weight no problems. You won't have more "hind milk" at the end of the day, you will continually make the same milk.

Be careful with block feeding this advice is not something that is recommended so much these days as can mess with supply so not a good idea if you have supply issues. But that said you shouldn't need to change breast every feed if baby is feeding every 40 mins if they're not feeding very long. I would maybe stick to one breast for 2 hours, unless of course baby is not going back on and it feels drained, you may just have a very efficient feeder. I found distraction helped if I was trying to get my eldest to go longer between feeds so he took more next time.

If you think your let down is too fast and baby is spluttering meaning not feeding for long you could try expressing a little before a feed.

This is exactly what I was thinking too but didn't dare say anything yesterday because everyone seemed to be saying the opposite!

The la leche league website says block feeding should only be used to reduce an over supply.

 

[meli1981]

Nighttime is more fatty milk tho....brain developing milk...lol
This is partly why babies nurse so much at night...

 

[Pearls18]

The fat composition will be higher throughout the whole feed at night than a feed earlier on in the day, milk changes but not during a feed, there isn't 2 different types of milk made like they used to believe (although you could argue you do kind of make 2 different types of milk in that baby will receive different fat levels at the start than at the end of a feed) but you don't "run out" of hind milk, or fore milk, it's the same stuff coming out it's just the fattier bit is harder to get out and you don't technically need it to gain weight like they used to think. But yes milk adapts throughout the day etc.

 

[Mrsb3]

There is no such thing as fore milk and hind milk, this has recently been discredited. The composition of milk is the same throughout the feed, the difference is the fat globules stick to the milk ducts so the longer a baby feeds the more fat they get towards the end of the feed. A baby will still gain weight on snacky feeds. My son was also a very snacky feeder, but very efficient, he often had green poos but was content and gained weight no problems. You won't have more "hind milk" at the end of the day, you will continually make the same milk.

Be careful with block feeding this advice is not something that is recommended so much these days as can mess with supply so not a good idea if you have supply issues. But that said you shouldn't need to change breast every feed if baby is feeding every 40 mins if they're not feeding very long. I would maybe stick to one breast for 2 hours, unless of course baby is not going back on and it feels drained, you may just have a very efficient feeder. I found distraction helped if I was trying to get my eldest to go longer between feeds so he took more next time.

If you think your let down is too fast and baby is spluttering meaning not feeding for long you could try expressing a little before a feed.

This is exactly what I was thinking too but didn't dare say anything yesterday because everyone seemed to be saying the opposite!

The la leche league website says block feeding should only be used to reduce an over supply.

How do they recommend you feed then? I remember asking the midwife in the hospital and she said 15 mins and no other advice given. I asked my HV the same question and she said as often as your baby wants... Again not very helpful really. I've had mastitis twice too. So far block feeding is working for us, lo is going 2.5 hours now and draining the boob in 10-15 mins then snoozing for a couple hours! best advice given imo....oh and her poops are mustard looking and seedy (I check now lol)

 

[Pearls18]

There is no such thing as fore milk and hind milk, this has recently been discredited. The composition of milk is the same throughout the feed, the difference is the fat globules stick to the milk ducts so the longer a baby feeds the more fat they get towards the end of the feed. A baby will still gain weight on snacky feeds. My son was also a very snacky feeder, but very efficient, he often had green poos but was content and gained weight no problems. You won't have more "hind milk" at the end of the day, you will continually make the same milk.

Be careful with block feeding this advice is not something that is recommended so much these days as can mess with supply so not a good idea if you have supply issues. But that said you shouldn't need to change breast every feed if baby is feeding every 40 mins if they're not feeding very long. I would maybe stick to one breast for 2 hours, unless of course baby is not going back on and it feels drained, you may just have a very efficient feeder. I found distraction helped if I was trying to get my eldest to go longer between feeds so he took more next time.

If you think your let down is too fast and baby is spluttering meaning not feeding for long you could try expressing a little before a feed.

This is exactly what I was thinking too but didn't dare say anything yesterday because everyone seemed to be saying the opposite!

The la leche league website says block feeding should only be used to reduce an over supply.

How do they recommend you feed then? I remember asking the midwife in the hospital and she said 15 mins and no other advice given. I asked my HV the same question and she said as often as your baby wants... Again not very helpful really. I've had mastitis twice too. So far block feeding is working for us, lo is going 2.5 hours now and draining the boob in 10-15 mins then snoozing for a couple hours! best advice given imo....oh and her poops are mustard looking and seedy (I check now lol)

On demand drain one breast then offer the next if needed but you always start with the last breast used, I didn't say block feeding was bad advice just that it is something you have to be cautious of if your supply is low as it can tamper with supply, if you have a fast let down and /or over supply a format of block feeding may do the trick, but as your baby is feeding so frequently I wouldn't even really call it block feeding to use the same breast for 2 hours, unless you think baby is fully draining the breast then I would be recommending to make sure you do switch to the other one. I haven't disagreed with anyone just wanted to mention be careful with block feeding, when people block feed they can do it for many hours (I've heard up to 6!!) and this is detrimental to supply, but if you're still switching breasts every few hours it's not so much of a concern.

 

[sheldonsmommy]

There is no such thing as fore milk and hind milk, this has recently been discredited. The composition of milk is the same throughout the feed, the difference is the fat globules stick to the milk ducts so the longer a baby feeds the more fat they get towards the end of the feed. A baby will still gain weight on snacky feeds. My son was also a very snacky feeder, but very efficient, he often had green poos but was content and gained weight no problems. You won't have more "hind milk" at the end of the day, you will continually make the same milk.

Be careful with block feeding this advice is not something that is recommended so much these days as can mess with supply so not a good idea if you have supply issues. But that said you shouldn't need to change breast every feed if baby is feeding every 40 mins if they're not feeding very long. I would maybe stick to one breast for 2 hours, unless of course baby is not going back on and it feels drained, you may just have a very efficient feeder. I found distraction helped if I was trying to get my eldest to go longer between feeds so he took more next time.

If you think your let down is too fast and baby is spluttering meaning not feeding for long you could try expressing a little before a feed.

This is exactly what I was thinking too but didn't dare say anything yesterday because everyone seemed to be saying the opposite!

The la leche league website says block feeding should only be used to reduce an over supply.

How do they recommend you feed then? I remember asking the midwife in the hospital and she said 15 mins and no other advice given. I asked my HV the same question and she said as often as your baby wants... Again not very helpful really. I've had mastitis twice too. So far block feeding is working for us, lo is going 2.5 hours now and draining the boob in 10-15 mins then snoozing for a couple hours! best advice given imo....oh and her poops are mustard looking and seedy (I check now lol)

On demand drain one breast then offer the next if needed but you always start with the last breast used, I didn't say block feeding was bad advice just that it is something you have to be cautious of if your supply is low as it can tamper with supply, if you have a fast let down and /or over supply a format of block feeding may do the trick, but as your baby is feeding so frequently I wouldn't even really call it block feeding to use the same breast for 2 hours, unless you think baby is fully draining the breast then I would be recommending to make sure you do switch to the other one. I haven't disagreed with anyone just wanted to mention be careful with block feeding, when people block feed they can do it for many hours (I've heard up to 6!!) and this is detrimental to supply, but if you're still switching breasts every few hours it's not so much of a concern.

I agree with this, when I had an oversupply, he would only need one breast at a time as it was enough to fill him up. So sometimes one breast would go 6 hours without a feed because he was going 3 hours between feeds. But eventually my supply regulated and it was evident that he needed both breasts during a feed. So he'd empty one and snack on the other, and I'd offer them in reverse order the next feeds.

I realized when he was done on one breast because his suck to swallow ratio would go from like 1 or 2:1 to 5:1 or less, or he would just get fussy so I'd switch