home birth after c setion ?

Fruitymeli

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i know im early but i was thinking on homebirth
i had a c section with my son who was breech
anyone got any stories ?
:thumbup:
 
It's never to early to plan your HBAC! I am planning one as well. I am now in the process of hiring a doula!
 
I'm planning to have one - will let you know how it goes! There was another thread about this recently - see if you can find it on the list of threads :flower:
 
I planned but transferred at 10cm with no urge to push as baby had turned posterior and blood loss but no dramas.

Went to hospital, and achieved my VBAC with only Gas and air and no nasty interventions.

Trying to HVBAC was the best decision I ever made without a doubt.

I would never have made it to 8cm with out any pain relief if I were in hospital - that's where I was when the MW arrived and got around to checking me.

I bathed my toddler, put him to bed, cooked a meal for e and mum, sent hubby to the pub, had a bath and started a tesco online shop all before I got to the point I could do nothing but breathe through contractions and needed to call trh MW and get hubby back form the footie LOL.

Planning to HBAC means you may face some opposition so you research more and know your rights better making for a more empowering experience because you make it yours!
 
I'm planning one as well, but won't be able to update till about late December.

My first midwife wouldn't support me outside of hospital (conservative practise policy), but we are 3hrs from the main hospital. Anyway, I found another MW, recommended by my friend and neighbour, who's had 3 great homebirths who was happy enough to support me. I got my notes from the last "birth" and we went through that together. My risks are the same as anyone else homebirthing here, and loads do it, except for the tiny additional risk of Uterine Rupture, which at less that 1% (with most of them not being catastrophic, and also no differential allowed for, for those who received Synocinon or Pitocin in labour which can increase the risk) which for me is small enough to not worry about - there are other things that can happen which are more risky than that but you won't be told about them at every turn, so the UR thing is vastly overstated and used as a scare tactic IMHO.

So if you find opposition, read up, garner as much info as you can and fight for it! With it being an elective for breech, there is no reason for you to need another, and it is possible to vaginally birth a breech baby, though not many would probably attempt that at a homebirth. I think my MW has, actually but don't think it was an HBAC & I don't know if she would this far from hospital. Anyway, there is no reason for this baby to be breech again, it would be pretty unlikely and there are things to do to prevent/turn breech. Someone has mentioned spinningbabies.com, I've not looked yet, but will as DD turned posterior half way though my labour last time. Anyway, I'm rambling again, but yes, you can do it!

Welcome to the best bit of this and any other forum I've found! :)
 
I agree with what the other ladies have said, doing your research and knowing what the risks are for all options. For me, the risk of another traumatic labour and birth is higher at the hospital than at home where I will be more relaxed and able to let my body do what it needs to do :)
 
Like my MW said to me...even if you transfer and end up with a EMCS it'll be done how you want, it'll be better because you know what you want.

Plan for home but be aware of what may happen and how you can make it better for you.

...my MW was awesome.

She also let slip that by having a HB I would be getting better care.
 
P.S. Went on and had a look at the spinningbabies website, it's fab, and there are lots of tips about malpositioned babies, and things to do now if you've had one before, I'd reccommend a read of it!
 
It's a horrible website to navigate but once you get around it it has some good ideas.

Some babies are just super naughty!
 
I don't want to hijack this thread, but I have a question directly relating to it sop it seemed pointless starting another thread.
Briefly, I was booked in for a home birth. I ended up with a crash c-section. Because I was a home birth my midwife popped in as she was passing even though my contractions were a long way apart still, just to see how I was doing and that we had everything sorted. If she hadn't my son would have died. We went to hospital (only five/ten minutes away) and my son was in my husband's arms within 25 minutes of parking up outside.
I had a birth review to see if there was a reason for what happened. They couldn't find one. They said whilst I am an ideal candidate for VBAC and that they would support me if I chose a water birth they would be against me having a HVBAC.
I would be interested to know the kind of arguements/problems you have come up against whilst trying to plan a HVBAC as I am excited at the idea that I might be able to have one. As far as I am concerned booked a home birth saved my son's life (I wouldn't have been called into hospital for hours if I was birthing there and my son's cord only had another five minutes worth of oxygen) so as you can imagine, I am quite the fan of them.
 
The arguement I am going to present to my consultant is pretty much this:

"Although I agree that the best place to have a uterine rupture is in hospital, the risk of this happening is low. The figure generally quoted is 1 in 200 chance, however the research that this figure has come from includes women who have had oxytocins during labour. My first priority is to AVOID a uterine rupture and to do this the best thing I can do is to avoid oxytocins. I will labour quicker and more efficently if I am at home, therefore reducing the need for augmentation of labour."

Wonder how they will take it. I probably gonna find some references and have them in my bag.
 
I chose to HBAC because I knew I would labour better at home after the unpleasant experience I had last time.

I wanted to avoid the tension and trepidation i knew I would feel at being in a hospital and feeling like I was having to battle to get what I wanted - all things that would hinder labour.

I explained to my MW's how I felt and that I knew the recommendations for constant monitoring and the restrictions in movement that give are not proven to improve outcomes and that I would feel safer being at home with 100% attention of my MW's who I was confident would spot any signs of fetal distress, UR, poor positioning of baby etc.

Now the MW's were very supportive - stating I would indeed get better care at home.
VBAC clinic led by senior MW - supportive of VBAC obviously but not of HBAC
OB - I saw once he was an ass. 'You do know it's dangerous' 'I saw a UR last week we only saved mum and baby because we could get her to they're immediately' blah blah blah, dismissed my wanted to HBAC out of hand 'we'll discuss this at our 34 week appt. I didn't bother going back.

If your pregnancy is uncomplicated then why bother seeing an OB?

Do some reading and understand the risks - let your antenatal team know you re aware of the risks and that you choose to HBAC.

Depending on your area it seems you may meet lots of resistance, or very little.

I was lucky the OB was unsupportive but I never had to fight my antenatal team.

My husband and Mother were the most difficult LOL.
 
The main argument I came up against was the uterine rupture thing - as Celesse said - for me it's not an issue. The MW did her best to put me off but when I told her that was what we'd decided she's been very very supportive :D

The other thing that worked out quite well for us was that we didn't decide on homebirth until a bit later on, so my notes said hospital birth. That meant that when we went to see the consultant she wasn't giving us a load of grief about HB. She suggested being 'induced' at 41+something - trying to break my waters, then giving me the drip (which really really really increases your chance of rupture, so I have no idea why they still do it :wacko: ).
Anyway, I talked her into 42 weeks (since DS was 18 days over) and she wanted me to book via the MW, for a c-section at 42 weeks - I just smiled and nodded - but had no intention of doing this :haha: So I don't have a c-section booked for if I go past EDD - I don't want to feel like I"m on a timescale and I'm willing to wait for as long as LO takes to come, so long as there's no problems.
 
Hi The Girl, what actually happened causing the crash section? Was it a prolapsed cord? sorry to ask you such a direct question, but it may help the ladies here understand what best advice to give...
 
I read this from my MW blog today, the response has some amazing info

https://www.motherbloommidwifery.com/2011/05/very-interesting-article-and-response.html

By David Hayes, MD
I am encouraged by Dr. Fineberg's recognition and admission that
the current standard of practice of obstetrics in the United States is
in fact lamentable. I am encouraged that she has felt the need to make
a public declaration of her concern over the disconnect between the
information available in the obstetrical literature (not to mention the
midwifery literature – which obstetricians rarely even concede
exists) and the routine practices in virtually every hospital in the
country.

I appreciate that she understands and delineates at least portions of
the various chains of events that lead to an increase in the number of
unnecessary cesarean deliveries. I appreciate that she describes the
role that dogmatic adherence to the long discredited Friedman curve,
overly aggressive management of rupture of membranes at term, and the
irrational discontinuance of performing and even training future
obstetricians to perform vaginal breech deliveries plays in driving up
the numbers of these unnecessary cesarean deliveries.

I am positively thrilled that she recognizes and calls out the extent
to which obstetricians routinely ignore the doctrine of informed
consent, except to pay lip service to the satisfy the legal requirements
for their own protection.

But then, just when I think she might scale those rarified heights and
suggest that we actually consider those options that make prenatal care
and delivery safer for mothers and their babies in virtually every
developed country on the planet, she retreats squarely inside the
obstetrical dogma.

"A growing notion among women in our region, and perhaps across the
country, is that hospitals and obstetricians are a more risky option
than lay-home midwives for birth. Although my initial reaction is
disbelief, perhaps we should look at how we, the obstetricians,
contribute to this trend."

Perhaps? Really? Yes, perhaps we should!

Consider first the state of obstetrics in our self-proclaimed best
medical system in the world:

"The United States' rate for maternal mortality is 1 in 2,100
– the highest of any industrialized nation. In fact, only three
Tier I developed countries – Albania, the Russian Federation and
Moldova – performed worse than the United States on this indicator.
A woman in the U.S. is more than 7 times as likely as a woman in Italy
or Ireland to die from pregnancy-related causes and her risk of
maternal death is 15-fold that of a woman in Greece."(1)

And:

"Similarly, the United States does not do as well as most other
developed countries with regard to under-5 mortality. The U.S. under-5
mortality rate is 8 per 1,000 births. This is on par with rates in
Latvia. Forty countries performed better than the U.S. on this
indicator. At this rate, a child in the U.S. is more than twice as
likely as a child in Finland, Greece, Iceland, Japan, Luxembourg,
Norway, Slovenia, Singapore or Sweden to die before reaching age
5."(2)

The women who are increasingly asking for out of hospital care are
doing so because they are informed, intelligent, and empowered women who
are concerned about their health and the health of their baby. Indeed,
the international human rights organization Amnesty International took
the extraordinary step just last fall of issuing a report in which they
referred to the "maternity health care crisis in the USA" in
calling world wide attention to the state of obstetrical care in the
U.S.(3) The only people who seem not to see it are the obstetricians
who are at the root cause of it.

Any thinking woman who bothers to look should be disturbed by what she
sees. There is something very wrong here. Part of the problem
certainly arises from the for-profit health care system that even now
makes access to health care impossible for millions of Americans. But
the problem is much deeper than even that. The statistics cut squarely
across racial and socio-economic lines and there is no indication that
it can all be accounted for by access.

Yes, women are increasingly avoiding the medical model of childbirth
and the hospital setting for deliveries. They are fully capable of
reading and of obtaining good, accurate information. They are well aware
that the decisions their obstetricians are making on their behalf often
are not supported by the literature and do result in worse outcomes.
They do understand the problems endemic in the US obstetrical system.
And as a result they are well aware, if Dr. Fineberg is not, that their
risk of morbidity and mortality is significantly lower when delivering
their baby with a skilled birth attendant in their own home than it is
in any hospital in the United States.(4, 5, 6, 7) The fact is, 90% of
births in the US could be accomplished at home, at lower cost, with
better outcomes, and with more satisfied moms and babies.

We debate the causes, bemoan the rise in cesarean delivery rates, but
through it all we are missing a hugely important fact – a fact that
is not lost on a generation of intelligent, educated women. Outcomes
are better in a home birth attended by a skilled birth attendant than a
hospital birth attended by ANY attendant, midwife or obstetrician.hos
Until we admit that basic premise, we will make no progress.

Physicians are admonished to "first do no harm." In practice
that implies we should do nothing unless we have evidence it may
improve an outcome. Yet for the vast majority of things we do in
obstetrics, we do not have that evidence. In fact we often have
evidence to the contrary. We routinely order continuous monitoring that
has shown no benefit at all to fetal morbidity and mortality but
dramatically increases the rate of unnecessary interventions thereby
dramatically increasing maternal morbidity and mortality. We, without
thinking, perform or order invasive cervical exams that have very poor
prognostic value, have never been shown to improve any index of
maternal or fetal morbidity, yet have been shown to increase the risk
of fetal and maternal infection. Indeed, we routinely order or perform
dozens of procedures in every labor and delivery unit in the country
that have no proven benefit and in many cases fly in the face of
evidence in our own literature that they worsen maternal and fetal
outcomes.(8)

I cannot agree more with Dr. Fineberg's observation that "each
of these women deserves an honest discussion about the fetal and
maternal risks of each option." But she should not stop with that
discussion. After that discussion is held, each of these women
deserves a birth attendant that respects and supports her regardless of
the option she chooses. That is where the U.S. obstetrical culture has
utterly failed its clientele. We, as obstetricians, have entirely lost
sight of the fact that our first obligation in ethical medical
decision-making is to respect patient autonomy. We routinely order and
perform procedures against our patients' wishes, often exploiting
the vulnerability of our patients, enforcing our authority through
intimidation, fear mongering, and occasionally even obtaining court
orders that are virtually always invalid and overturned when it is too
late.

I found Dr. Fineberg's statement "This is not a woman who cares
more about the birth experience than her baby" very telling and
typical of the condescending attitude that has gotten us where we are
today. They do care about their delivery experience, not entirely in
the sense that they are looking to make a spiritual or emotional
connection to one of the defining experiences of womanhood (although
that is certainly much more important than the dismissive derision
implied by the statement). They care about it also because they want
control over, or at the very least input into, the decision making
process involving their life, their health, and their baby. They care
about it because they do not trust their obstetrician to make the
decision that's in their patient's best interest, rather than
their own. They care about it because they know the hospital protocols
being blindly followed with little reason are not necessarily
applicable to their particular situation.

In my experience, no mother cares more about the "birth
experience" than they do their baby. It is precisely because they
care about their baby and their life that they are making the
completely rational decision to avoid a hospital birth at all costs.
Many of them are avoiding hospital births because they have had
hospital births, because they have been bullied into unnecessary
inductions, which failed, because they've had "emergency"
c-sections and suffered through difficulties in bonding, breast
feeding, post partum depression, because they have been treated with
condescension and had their own wishes about their own bodies overruled
with coercion and fear tactics that were completely inappropriate.

There are many reasons we should encourage home deliveries attended by
qualified birth attendants: it's more comfortable and convenient;
it's less expensive; we should respect patient autonomy. But there
is one reason why we cannot ethically avoid it — it is safer. The
outcomes, for mothers and babies, are simply better.

I am an obstetrician. I too lamented when, at the behest of risk
averse pediatricians, my local hospital stopped allowing trials of labor
in women with prior cesarean deliveries. But I did more than just
lament. I studied the data carefully. I looked closely at the real risks
and who might be appropriate candidates, and I began doing VBACs at
home. I have done this for several years and had many successful VBACs
and no complications. I know the obstetricians reading this are quaking
in their boots, but there is no rational reason to. In one classic
study, 3 of the 17,898 women undergoing a trial of labor after cesarean
died, while 7 of the 15,801 women undergoing a repeat C/S died(9) It is
likely that the trial of labor morbidity and mortality would have been
even lower had the study participants refrained from inducing or
augmenting labor. But even those numbers are roughly half of the 2 in
10,000 risk that a woman will be killed in an automobile accident during
the period of time she is pregnant.(10)


Furthermore, other studies suggest that while around 5/10000 serious
uterine ruptures may occur during a trial of labor, around 2/10000
uterine ruptures occur prior to the onset on labor. In other words, any
pregnant woman who has had a prior C/S is at increased risk of uterine
rupture even if she elects a repeat C/S. And as we well know, there are
many other consequences of cesarean delivery that may be life
threatening. Why then are we not approaching performing a C/S with even
a fraction of the trepidation that we approach normal vaginal
deliveries?


A woman choosing to have a home VBAC rather than be forced to have a
repeat C/S in her local hospital is making a rational decision given the
data we have available, a decision which we should be prepared to
support if we cannot offer her a better alternative. I have delivered
several hundred VBACs in the past several years without incident. In the
same time frame, my local hospital has lost at least 3 mothers during
or shortly following cesarean deliveries.

U.S. obstetricians have already come to the crossroads and have taken
the wrong path. It can be fixed, but they need to start having honest
and open discussions among themselves about the real maternal and fetal
risks, about the rampant rate of unnecessary induction which leads to
unneeded cesarean delivery, about the continued use of continuous fetal
monitoring, restricted movement, withholding of nutrition, unneeded
augmentation of labor, artificial rupture of membranes, epidural
anesthesia and even multiple cervical exams, none of which have any
proven benefit and all of which contribute to increased morbidity and
even mortality.

Less than two per cent of what is routinely done on labor and delivery
units in the US has been shown to have any positive benefit. Over 15%
has been shown to have demonstrably adverse impact. ACOG continues to
spout, with no evidence, the tired old line that delivery is safer in
hospitals or birth centers joined at the hip to hospitals.(11) At the
same time, every EU member country is actively seeking to increase the
numbers of home deliveries, increase the numbers of midwife managed
pregnancies, and work to ensure there is a seamless interface between
home delivery practices and the hospital system. In the US, virtually
all medical boards and obstetrical societies, and most obstetricians
and hospitals, are actively hostile to the idea of home delivery and to
the practitioners and pregnant women who choose it.

Our maternal and infant mortality rates continue to climb. We continue
to do the same things and expect different outcomes. Is it because of
the "risk averse culture of doctors and hospitals"? Partly,
yes. But it is also pressure from their peers that prevents
obstetricians from actually practicing the evidence based medicine we
have and from even considering the vast realms of international EBM and
midwifery EBM. Obstetricians who attempt to practice based on the
literature rather than the "local standard of practice" run a
very real risk of losing their hospital privileges and possibly even
their medical licenses. If they practice according to the "local
standard of care" they almost invariably must violate all four of
the accepted principals of medical ethics: patient autonomy,
beneficence, non-maleficence, and justice.

We have the information to fix this problem. When we address the
culture of peer pressure, the local "standards of care" that
bear no resemblance to what the literature supports, when we recognize
that many (including some among the top leadership and most recognized
names in obstetrics) are more interested in procuring their positions,
promoting their ideology, protecting their power, and preserving their
market share than they are in really addressing the problems, improving
maternity care, and truly supporting their patients, then and only then
can we start to make headway towards creating a model of maternity care
that is both world class and genuinely supportive of its clientele.

David Hayes, MD has been offering home births since 2005 and has
attended exclusively home births for the last three years. He is
closing his practice this month to devote his energies to the
international humanitarian aid organization, Doctors Without Borders
 
That's a brilliant article - would you maybe also post it in a separate thread in this section, to make sure more ladies see it? Thanks again!
 
Hi The Girl, what actually happened causing the crash section? Was it a prolapsed cord? sorry to ask you such a direct question, but it may help the ladies here understand what best advice to give...

They don't know. The midwife realised there was a problem as his heartbeat was 80 bpm during a contraction and 180 afterwards. After I got to hospital they examined me, I was four centimetres. They monitored baby's heartbeat and then all of a sudden it went to virtually nothing during a contraction. Hence the crash c-section.
They found no obvious trauma, but they also couldn't tell I had bled, which happened in the car while transferring to hospital. The head midwife said at the review if I passed all of the blood from say the placenta coming away, it might not have been obvious when they went in. They certainly drew no conclusions after operating.
I got the impression it was the fact that they don't know what happened that might cause the problem.
 

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