I don't think baby is getting enough

[Kiki1993]

Hi, macie is just over 2 weeks. The first two days the latch wasn't right but got it fixed and she said I would be a few days behind in getting milk because of that. My milk has come in now and we have been breastfeeding and topping up with expressed milk in a bottle. Over last few days she's happy enough with how much she gets on boob and expressed during the day but at night it's like I dry up. I try feed her on boob and she sucks then cries looks around and tries to latch on again. Her latch is fine it's been checked but it's like she sucks and nothing comes out. I figured I would try to express to see if much is coming out and I try to express for twenty minutes each side and nothing comes out maybe a few drops. Meanwhile macie is crying and hungry. I try massaging te breasts, manually expressing and nothing. I've tried drinking fennel tea and eating breastfeeding strong foods, I have been drinking plenty water and everything. I have had to give her 3 ounces of formula at night just so she doesn't cry until more milk is in. The midwife said its better not to do this because breast milk is supply and demand so if I'm giving her substitute then it won't get better but what else can I do? I don't want her going hungry.
And another thing everytime I google how much is normal to express at this point everyone is saying so much more than what I get. I only express between 60-80mls in the morning and 30-50mls the rest of the day. Then when it gets to about ten at night I et pretty much nothing. During the days she also feeds in the boob. A lot and around 2am she feeds on the boob, then around half five-6 she gets an expressed bottle which is when I express most.
I'm just confused is that enough milk I'm expressing? And why do I dry up every night?

 

[happynewmom1]

It was like this for me too with this baby. She would cluster feed so much and get upset it wasn't coming out fast enough. I started upping calories in the evening.. Eating a few more snacks and this helped a lot. Things with oats in it are great for this. Also I did find it was worse the days I pumped even once earlier in the day. It really isn't recommended to pump in the early weeks anyway.. So could you try not pumping a day and see how it goes?

Remember pumping is different for everyone.. Some get very small amounts, some pump a lot at one sitting. It doesn't mean a lot about your supply.. The baby is much more efficient at emptying the breast than a pump. Try not to compare as it will stress you out. Hope this helps even a little bit.

 

[noon_child]

Arrgghhh, I posted a huge reply earlier to day and it hasn't uploaded...gah...I will attempt to retype it all in about 2hrs when I have go the little one to bed.

For the time being please be reassured that everything you are describing sounds normal.

 

[noon_child]

I'm going to try to do this in sections so that if my internet throws a wobbly again I don't loose it all!

Hi, macie is just over 2 weeks. The first two days the latch wasn't right but got it fixed and she said I would be a few days behind in getting milk because of that. My milk has come in now and we have been breastfeeding and topping up with expressed milk in a bottle. Over last few days she's happy enough with how much she gets on boob and expressed during the day but at night it's like I dry up. I try feed her on boob and she sucks then cries looks around and tries to latch on again. Her latch is fine it's been checked but it's like she sucks and nothing comes out.

A lot of women (if not all) report feeling like there is no milk in the afternoon, evening or early in the night (around 5pm - Midnight). Research is patchy but it does appear that letdown seems inhibited at these times, so babies get frustrated by having to work harder to get a letdown. Add that to the fact that you and baby are probably tired after a long day and that just adds to the upset. It doesn't mean you have dried up!

It may be that she has got used to the speed of milk coming from a bottle and that is adding to her frustration when breastfeeding at times when letdown doesn't happen as easily. Sometimes babies prefer the bottle so much that they refuse breast all together. You have to decide whether you think it is worth the risk for the benefits you feel you get using a bottle. Some babies transition fine between the two, some do not.

 

[noon_child]

I figured I would try to express to see if much is coming out and I try to express for twenty minutes each side and nothing comes out maybe a few drops. Meanwhile macie is crying and hungry.

Like pp said, pumping and expressing don't work for everyone. there are women with huge supply who never get a drop. It is also much more difficult to let down when stressed out, so trying to pump or express while your baby is crying with hunger may not work. Can you try to keep some of the milk expressed during the day to use in the evening. A very distressed baby will not feed and they can start to associate feeding positions with distress if they keep being made to try to latch when really screaming. She may need a change of room, position, to have a finger to suck on etc. Or sometimes (and I know I did this) we are so focused on problem solving the milk situation that we forget to calm our children, we forget to talk to them, sing to them etc. Just knowing you are there with her and you are calm and happy may help her calm down. If it doesn't, then you can try some of the expressed milk. Usually two to three teaspoons (15ml say) is enough to calm a newborn enough to try them on the breast again, and if delivered in drops via a syringe you can avoid the bottle preference developing - but you may want to stay with bottles, it's your choice.

Massage is a great idea but doesn't always help women express. have you tried doing breast compressions while she is latched to get the milk flowing faster?

 

[noon_child]

I have had to give her 3 ounces of formula at night just so she doesn't cry until more milk is in. The midwife said its better not to do this because breast milk is supply and demand so if I'm giving her substitute then it won't get better but what else can I do? I don't want her going hungry.

No one likes the idea of their baby being hungry, but I think it is important to remember that hungry is different to starving. Hunger forces us to seek out food, and in a baby's case that means continually going back to the breast to get more. During growth spurts the hunger outstrips the body's production for a few days, BUT the constant food seeking ensures that from that point on your body knows to make more. If you give her a bottle you will have to pump so that your body knows that she wants 3oz more milk, and it is really hard to tell how long you'd need to pump for, otherwise you'll never make enough because your body will think she's satisfied. It is REALLY HARD but it doesn't last forever and it does work - trust women bodies to be strong and capable.

See previous post for ways to reduce her distress but avoid her having a full feed from the bottle.

 

[noon_child]

During the days she also feeds in the boob. A lot and around 2am she feeds on the boob, then around half five-6 she gets an expressed bottle which is when I express most.
I'm just confused is that enough milk I'm expressing? And why do I dry up every night?

Can I ask why she gets an expressed bottle at the time when your production is highest? Letting her feed directly from you at times when it is easiest and least stressful will avoid bottle preference and the stimulation you get from her feeding directly is WAY better for increasing milk supply than pumping or expressing.

RED FLAGS:
Everything you describe sounds normal BUT sometimes babies aren't getting enough milk and these are the red flags to look for:
1)Poo has never been yellow/orange and baby is over a week old
2)Baby is less than two weeks old and is not posing every day (some healthy bf babies don't poo but it is something to look at with other symptoms)
3)Baby is not gaining weight and is over 5 days old
4)Nipple pain and damage (including coming out of feeds an odd shape or with a stripe)
5)Baby is not at birth weight by 14 days

Sometimes these things can happen but nothing is wrong but it is always best to seek help. Frequent (very frequent) feeding is NOT a red flag in the early couple of months. A fussy unsettled baby is NOT a red flag if not accompanied by any other symptoms.

 

[staralfur]

Noon child has pretty much covered it, just here as an extra voice saying that all sounds normal.

One of the most helpful things for me when I was stressing about my LO not getting enough milk was my lo's Doctor asking me if she was having normal wet/dirty diapers. After I said yes she said "well that has to come from something going in, doesn't it?" From then on I was assured that as long as my LO was peeing/pooping normally then it must mean she was getting enough milk as that was the only thing she was getting.

 

[1nceUponATime]

I felt this exact same way but cluster feeding is exactly what my daughter did around that time.. it's how they get to boost your supply of milk. I would try to just use the breast and don't express any at night because if she is trying to boost your supply, pumping is not as efficient.

The other thing I am more aware of is baby using me as a pacifier.... is your baby doing that? My baby refuses a pacifier and uses me as one and at first I thought she just wasn't getting any milk but now I realize she actually gets mad when milk comes out when she's using me as a pacifier... it's a whole different kind of sucking too... she positions herself so that milk doesn't come out and sucks like she would on a pacifier...

If your baby has dirty diapers (at least 7 a day according to my doctor) and is gaining weight, it might be she is just cluster feeding or using you as a pacifier... i had several breakdowns because I thought she wasn't getting enough but she was using me for comfort.

Remember your baby also doesn't know what time it is and sometimes they have days and nights confused too so she might be just awake more at night and want the comfort of you.

 

[minties]

I echo all that's been said, totally normal.

P.S babies don't use us as a pacifier, they use a pacifier like a boob!

 

[StillPraying]

I had these same issues and when I stopped pumping during the day it was resolved pretty quickly. Hang in there hon, the first few weeks of breastfeeding are rough!

 

[kit603]

All sounds very normal to me, just to add that I'm one of those women that had a really good supply but could never seem to express very well despite trying different styles of pump and manually expressing as well. Never more than 50-60ml and could only usually get that once a day.

 

[Kiki1993]

Hi everyone, macie is now 2 months old and we are combination feeding and she seems a lot more content now. She had been slow getting back to her birth weight and only managed once i introduced bottles. We still breastfeed once in the morning, once at lunch, once at night and she gets 2-3 bottles as well. It has been working for the last 3 weeks so hope it continues but i have noticed her getting fussier with the breast and sometimes i have to "trick" her to start sucking by putting a bottle in for a couple sucks and then latching her on. Tried a nipple shield and she HATED it, did nothing but scream and cry. But will share a really beautiful moment with you all, My little girl HATES the bath, she screams but when i take her in bath with me shes okay after she gets use to it. Well when she got unsettled in the bath last night she started crying but instead latched on to the boob and started sucking and she fed through a lot of the bath I cried it was such a lovely moment.