Kids with Two Languages

[curiosa]

I was going to update you on our progress!
Alice is 8.5 months. I try to speak to her in Japanese 90% of the time (Italian or English the other 10% for various reasons), hubby speaks to her in Italian and she hears English at the childminders and outisde the home in general.
She says "mamma" to me in a very Italian accent. That's the only word she says for now. But she understands simple phrases in a ALL THREE languages! She chatters a lot makes sounds from all three languages. Some are really distinctly English (definitely NOT-Italian sounds!).

How are others who have older children doing?

 

[Faerie]

Sofia's only 10 months, so her vocab so far is limited She says "mama", "dada", "bubba" (for hunger, means boob and solids!) and she repeats "la la la" if you sing.
There are some things that so far she only understands in one language, for example if I tell her to wave in English she doesn't know what I'm saying, but say it in Italian and she automatically does it.. I have to remind myself not to just say it in Italian, because I'm meant to be only speaking English with her. It's the same with "come here", she understands the Italian but not so much English.

 

[curiosa]

Faerie, I guess it's normal for kids to understand some phrases in one language first. It just depends which language they hear it in most often. They'll gradually learn. Although they might maintain certain "quirks", but that's all part of the fun!
Like there are certain words that are extremely common in the Italian language which I never even used until I was an adult because even though I grew up in Italy we never used them in my house (we used the Japanese equivalent) and I used English at school! In fact, I also thought EVERYBODY in the world cooked with chopsticks and found out only in highschool that that was not the case when I helped a friend cook dinner at their house!

 

[welshwarriors]

Well my son is half Welsh, half German, born in England.
What a chaos, ey?!

Hubby is Welsh, but can hardly speak it, so there is no point in trying to teach LO Welsh. I'm German and speak it a lot with LO and as soon as hubby is home we speak English.

I'm kinda scared that I totally confuse LO with speaking two languages, but in the end of the day it's part of him and it would be a shame if he wouldn't be able to communicate with people out of my family, plus I want to keep the door open to be able to go back to Germany if the school system over here doesn't agree with him.

 

[Faerie]

I shouldn't worry welshwarriors, I speak English with my little one and DH speaks Italian. Mostly DH and I speak English together, but if we have friends over then she'll hear me speak (bad) Italian too and she hears me speak French. She'll have to speak French and German at school. There are plenty of kids here growing up in multilingual families so I'm not too worried, she'll be fine.

Curiosa, your post made me laugh...

 

[emmajane]

My husband is spanish and speaks to the boys in Spanish. Theo does speak mostly english (as I speak to him in it) but says quite a lot of spanish words and understands most things. He has just started counting and even does it in spanish. We were quite shocked but this dual speaking is obviously working.

 

[wtt :)]

We don't have a LO yet but I speak German so will be speaking German, probably 90% of the time. My husband is Japanese but was born in the USA so he will be speaking English with the LO. (unfortunately he doesn't know Japanese well enough)
Me speaking German here in the USA will be tough but I will try my best as German can be very hard to learn later on in life!
Great Thread, BTW!

 

[curiosa]

An update:
Alice is really getting better and better at understanding the three languages. The two languages she seems to grasp best are Japanese, because I speak it, and English, as she's at the childminder 3 days a week.

The only thing that bothers me is that my husband is starting to speak to Alice in English more and more often, when he's supposed to be speaking Italian to her! He says it's because sometimes he wants to be understood quickly (like if he's asking her to do something) and thinks it's a waste of time waiting for her to understand the sentence in Italian.
I think that's totally counterproductive: if she can't understand the sentence in Italian then he should use it MORE not LESS!He should be relying more on pointing or the use of signing rather than using English just because it's easy. I'm not saying I'm perfect and never use Italian/English with my baby, but we need to try to make the exatra effort here - so if I do catch myself using the wrong language I immediately switch back to Japanese.

Any others have this sort of problem?

 

[Erised]

I know Eleanor is a lot younger still, but I think this 2 language thing will be more difficult than I imagined it to be. I'm supposed to be speaking Dutch to her, but if I speak in Dutch to her for 5 minutes a day it's a lot. I'm just sooo used to English.

When abouts will they actually start paying attention to the language you're speaking and picking things up? Hoping that once she starts weaning (when we'll be at the table for dinner) I'll speak Dutch to her during those times. Dutch only just doesn't seem to work for me as I honestly feel uncomfortable talking Dutch to her (yes, it's my native tongue). It all sounds wrong, I don't know what to say, I can't do a high active voice when speaking Dutch for some reason ... argh! I've turned English. Also, my midwife in the last weeks before birth told me our little girl will speak Dutch with an English accent as she'll pick it up from me... she's screwed already.

 

[curiosa]

Erised, it's definitely difficult!
I speak Japanese to my little girl, but Japanes is NOT my best language - even though I am 'bilingual' (Italian/Japanese) from birth. Nonetheless, I decided that since I am the only one who speaks it, I should make every effort to teach Alice. At first I did NOT feel comfortable speaking Japanese, and it didn't come natural to me at all, but I kept trying and trying. First I would speak Japanese at every nappy change, then I started speaking it even when I put her clothes on/put PJs on, etc and gradually increased the occasions I'd speak Japanese to her. I can say that now it comes much more natural to me and I instinctively speak to her in Japanese now, even when we are out amongst British people I will call out to her in Japanese.
I think if you keep trying it migh get easier for you too. Maybe do 10 minutes every day from now and and then gradually do more. I found that deciding on 'Japanese' activities was easiest - like you could decide that bath time is Dutch time, or something like taht.

As to when they start understanding things properly... I think I realised when she was around 6 months or so, when she started BLW and crawling and I started asking her questions and asking her to do things and seeing that she responded in the correct way to things. Sometimes it takes loads of repeating and gesturing for her to understand what I am saying, but it's pretty cool to see your little baby understanding what you say!

As for the accent thing... from my experience growing up bilingual (trilingual) amongst lots of other polyglots, what yous MW said is innacurateIf Dutch is your native language and you speak it with a good accent, and other people she might hear speaking in Dutch also speak with a native accent, she will get a native accent. Don't see why she would get an English-sounding Dutch accent,unless your Dutch accent has changed that much - but I doubt that, right?
The problem can arise if the only Dutch accent she hears is a bad accent.
at least that's what I've seen with peole I know.

 

[Erised]

I'm quite jealous of you & your little girl knowing Japanese! It's a language I'd love to learn, but unfortunately just don't have the patience for. DH & I watch a fair amount of Japanese manga/anime movies & series and I'd love to be able to understand it without needing the subs. I've picked up a couple of words here and there and can count to 4, but that's where it ends =P

As for my Dutch, I'm afraid I have got a massive English accent on it according to my parents. I personally can't hear it, but I guess that after 7 years of talking pretty much English only it makes sense I've got some sort of accent now. Ah well, even if she does have an accent... as long as people understand her, that's all that matters. Besides, once she starts going to a Dutch school and hears Dutch only from others around us she'll probably lose the accent she might have.

The talking Dutch to her during nappy changes and going to other activities from there on sounds like a fantastic idea! I'll definitely start trying to keep myself to that. Also very happy to hear that it seems 6 months is a good time for them to actually start picking up another language. Weaning + Dutch sounds like a good combination for our household, I'm sure DH will join in and help me there as well =)

 

[magicvw]

I use whatever language comes into my head first - usually that's English, since I'm not fluent in Bulgarian or anywhere close lol! But there are certain things that I always tend to say in Bulgarian because I know Poppy understands them better - just the odd phrase here and there. She's nearly 4 and behind in both languages still, but she's pretty good at sorting them out and replies in the same language 99% of the time. For about a year she totally mixed up the 2 languages in 1 sentence, but that doesn't really happen much now. It's funny when I start to speak to her in Bulgarian (rarely) because she becomes a different person right in front of my eyes. She stands differently and has different facial expressions. Sometimes she just laughs at me when I try to say something - she has no idea what's right or wrong of course, but it just must sound funny sometimes!

I've lived in 5 countries and I would say that in 100% of cases where I've known a child with one "foreign" parent, they have the accent of the country they live in. E.g. I know children here with 1 English parent, and they have slight Bulgarian accents when they speak English. On the other hand, all the kids I know with 2 "foreign" parents (of the same nationality) speak their mother tongue and the language of the country with perfect accents (e.g. Poppy speaks "English" English) This is just my experience of course - and I should add that I think in all cases it's been an English dad marrying a native woman of the foreign country! Perhaps a native speaking mum has more influence! x

PS Just to add, Eddie has started with a few words and he is in 100% English environment at the mo. Poppy didn't start till 6-7 months later and she was in bilingual. I think it does slow them down initially.

 

[curiosa]

this is all very interesting!

Erised, yes,knowing the language is the most important thing, the accent is secondary. Our kids are already advantaged for being able to learn more than one language from birth.

magic, it's funny how notice Poppy reacting differently when you speak Bulgarian! She probably does notice it's a bit different to native Bulgarian speakers - pretty soon she'll be making fun of you Don't worry, I used to make fun of my mum all the time for her slight Japanese accent when she speaks Italian, actually we still make fun of her sometimes.

very interesting about the accent thing!
I guess it must dependa lot on the specific case and how much exposure there is to the weaker language.
I certainly do hope my baby will have a perfect Italian accent as both my husband and I are native Italian speakers - but which accent she'll have I don't know as we come from different parts of Italy and thus have different regional inflections.

I tihnk we can help with our babies' accent by exposing our kids to TV from the countries we come from - when they are old enough - and also trying to an expat community so the kids can hear the language from other adults/children too.

 

[magicvw]

DH and I also have very different accents as I am a Brummie and he's a Geordie. Poppy actually uses both accents! DH does make a point of emphasising his vowels to her e.g. he says "cork" when I would say "coke" (not that she drinks it, I hasten to add lol!) I think ultimately you can't forcibly change your child's accent - and why would you want to? Better just to live normally and see what happens, I reckon! Accents change over time anyway - most people can't recognise I'm a Brummie as I've not lived there for half of my life now!

 

[magicvw]

Curiosa - I didnt' explain very well in my post above - she changes her face/attitude when she speaks Bulgarian, not so much when I do! I didn't put it very well, it's because she only speaks Bulgarian to me if I speak it to her first. It's like she has a Bulgarian personality and and English one!

 

[curiosa]

ah ok! hehehe I can understand why she changes face/expression when she changes language. I think to truly speak a language fully you have understand it much more fully - not just words alone make a language. I don't know how to explain it. But i think most people would say I look like two different people when I speak Italian and when I speak Japanese, I must look different as well when I speak English as well (English involves less movement of the hands, less facial expressions, I think).
But it's really interesting that Poppy already does it at her age! It really means kids have a much fuller understanding of language as a much younger age than I expected. impressive!

magic, what do you mean why change an accent? of course the Milan accent is the best Italian accent there is!
Of course I'm joking, but I guess it would be weird for me if my child didn't have a native Italian accent and I would be concerned about her getting bullied when she is in Italy (I am already concerned cause she is mixed race anyway. but that's nother story)

 

[magicvw]

Hmm I see where you're coming from! Especially as I have experience that bullying in Italy! I lived in Benevento for a year and I and DH learnt Italian (badly and I've forgotten it all now) with a Southern farmyard accent. Whenever we travelled to the north we had the piss taken out us mightily! x

I think accents change really quickly and even if your daughter speaks with a slight non-native Italian accent at home in Manchester, if you take her to Italy she'll probably adapt it to match the locals in the blink of an eye. My mum does something similar - she was born in Newcastle but moved to Birmingham when about 4. She has a light Brummie accent, but when she talks to my DH's parents she suddenly becomes a Geordie and she's not even trying!

 

[curiosa]

you are sooo right!
In fact, if I think about it, even my Italian accent has changed loads during the years and sometimes Italians can't pinpoint exactly where I'm from (usually Milanese accent is pretty discernible).

I've been thinking abuot this bilingual stuff loads!
Last night Alice woke up crying because of teething and when I went back to bed, a thought suddenly popped into my head. The past couple of weeks Alice has started nodding a lot. She does it to answer questions, obviously, but she also seems to do it when anybody's talking to her, like she's saying "yes, I understand". I thought she'd picked it up from the childminder and the kids she sees there, but I suddenly realised she gets it from me!
In Japanese, we often finish sentences with a little word, kind of like saying "right?" and nod a bit - this is especially true when we speak with children. So I do that ALL the time, I nod while I speak to her (not very obvious nodding, but it's there), and I also nod when SHE babbles to me and say "uhm, uhm" (like 'aha,yes'). So she picked it up from me when I speak Japanese. I wonder if she realises if it's a Japanese thing because when I mentioned to the childminder that Alice nods a lot, she didn't seem to know what I was talking about. Perhaps she doesn't do it when someone speaks to her in English... or perhaps she just thinks I'm weird and does it only to me.

 

[magicvw]

That's cute! Actually I think it starts to get really scary when your kids pick up on the stuff you do/say all the time without realising it! Poppy has a habit of saying a very strident "Right!" when a new activity is about to start, hands on hips - hmmmm guess where that came from! Eddie doesn't do any nodding, but he does shake his head for no A LOT! I'm relieved though because in Bulgaria they nod/shake the opposite way round and it would be very confusing for me if my kids did it that way!

 

[curiosa]

that thing about the nodding/shaking must be so weird to get used to!!