Marks and spencer allows Muslim works to refuse selling pork and alcohol to customers

[Eternal]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...serve-customers-pork-and-alcohol-9020982.html

Seen a huge backlash to this on Facebook. Personally I've got a few things to say but wondering what the general consensus is.

Is it great that a company has allowed a specific religious group to honour their beliefs?

Or is it ridiculous to allow one religious group to dictate what they feel comfortable with?

 

[special_kala]

Its not something I agree with and i think it fuels the fire coming off people like the EDL (which I do not agree with at all!).

When you are serving a customer you are serving their needs not your own.

If im totally honest if I had a cashier make me wait for another employee or move tills i would be pretty pissed off as generally I have the kids with me and it is hassle for me through no fault of my own.

 

[bumpy_j]

I don't see an issue with it particularly; you can decline to serve any customer for any reason to your discretion anyway, and I assume the majority of Muslims wont necessarily be taking M&S on that offer (most I know anyway have no problem with gifting or handling alcohol). I had somebody at work ask me to take over a transaction as he didn't like the way the customer was talking to his child

I assume it wont be simply sending the customer to another till and asking them to queue up again; it will be far more practical if the server in question rang the buzzer as you generally do when you need assistance, carry on scanning the rest of the items and finally the supervisor would handle and scan the alcohol/pork at the end. Don't really see the point in getting upset over something that you likely wont even experience. If it happens, and we are all overcome with inconvenience, maybe then we should complain.

 

[special_kala]

The only time as a cashier that I refused to serve people was if they were drunk and buying alcohol (and obviously if they were underage/no ID).

I cant imagine any of my managers would have been happy had I refused to serve a customer.

EDIT - Actually I refused one customer because he was being a gobby racist tw#t to the cashier next to me and he wanted to move to my till and I said no. I got told off by my manager for refusing

 

[Eternal]

I don't know what to think really, but my questions are this (and I've emailed them to marks and Spencer).

I'm a mormon, I don't drink because that's part of my religion, does that mean I can refuse to serve alcohol too? Is is this offer only open to Muslims. On top of that, my religion also "forbids" (for want of a better word) tea, coffee and tobacco, so someone lines up and half way through I find a packet of PG tips, am in I'm my rights to refuse to carry on of touch the product?

(I'll add to that, that my beliefs are my beliefs and I don't force them in anyone else, what everyone else does is their business, I have no issue if I were in retail, selling alcohol, tea etc, but it would surely be as valid as a Muslims? Also I don't think Muslims would choose to do it, or only the extremist, I did see a protest the other day calling for a uk wide ban on alcohol, but I imagine most are not extreme and believe similar to me )

Second. Take the religious part out, what about all belief? Should a vegetation therefore be allowed to refuse to sell meat, because actually most vegetarians I know feel and act more strongly on their beliefs than many religious people. Is it fair for a Muslim to be able to refuse a pork sale on their beliefs but not a vegetarian? Surly handling a bloody piece of beef or more offensive then someone handling a bottle of wine? Then what about vegans? Can they refuse to sell cheese?

Yes I appreciate it would probably never happen, but if it's a case of only one religious group getting privileges then that's discrimination surely? What about vegetarians? Is it not as much as a belief as any religious idea?


So those are my initial thoughts on it. Lol

 

[bumpy_j]

I think I read in the article that these policies are inclusive of other religions, so I gathered that a Jewish person could also refuse to serve pork if they wanted to. Like I said though, I doubt the vast majority of religious people would take up the company's offer concerning these situations as it not only inconveniences the customer somewhat, but also the server. I lived in an area that had one of the biggest Asian communities in England, and not once did I meet a Muslim that wouldn't handle a bottle of wine if needed.

Also considering the nature of these article comments, they would also possibly face some abuse for carrying this out too. I kind of think this is click-bait; seems weird to me that a slight store policy change that is likely not to affect a whole lot of people would make higher up the page than some far more important news stories. I do agree with you - it shouldn't be one rule for one religion and not the other. **

Kala, I was told by my manager when I started my retail job in September that it is legally fully up to our discretion whether we serve a customer (as long as it's not because you can't bothered - you do need a reason). That seems very unfair of your manager!

*EDIT sorry, noticed it was a different link, I was looking at the DM story earlier.

 

[Eternal]

Thanks I only skimmed the article as the one people shared was daily mail, and I preferred a less .... slated paper

As I say, I can't imagine many if any Muslims refusing to sell those items, but rut really needs to be open for everyone, I do understand not wanting to serve
People for certain reasons, but surely if you decide to work in retail then you need to accept that's the job?

 

[special_kala]

I assume this technically is open to anyone who works in retail but because of the small policy change in M&S the media have picked up the Muslim aspect of it and sensationalised it.

 

[bumpy_j]

Thanks I only skimmed the article as the one people shared was daily mail, and I preferred a less .... slated paper

As I say, I can't imagine many if any Muslims refusing to sell those items, but rut really needs to be open for everyone, I do understand not wanting to serve
People for certain reasons, but surely if you decide to work in retail then you need to accept that's the job?

Hmm...I did consider that, but supermarket/food store jobs are so accessible and easy to travel to that it's a pretty big strike off for a person to make. Under 18s for example cannot sell alcohol without a supervisor present, so I'd see it as a similar process and length of time for it to take. If a vegetarian buzzed someone over to handle my meat products, I personally don't think I'd mind that much (as long as it wasn't a horribly drawn out and unorganised process, but it needn't be!).

 

[emyandpotato]

Vegetarians working at Subway ask someone else to handle the meat. No uproar about that. It doesn't bother me. Not really an issue to go to another till. Might be a good idea to put up a little sign for the customer's convenience saying no pork/alcohol on this till, to prevent people waiting for ages only to be told they can't buy everything there.

 

[mayb_baby]

As long as it didn't hold me up I wouldn't care but I don't see many people refusing to touch and scan these items for religious purposes as I'm sure it would be a hassle for them too.

 

[amytrisha]

I feel like I've missed something!

It's only part of their religion for THEM not to consume alcohol/certain meat.. The problem isn't with touching it while it's in a packet right? So why can't they just scan it though

I agree with Eternal, are they gonna enforce it for everyone IE vegetarians won't serve meat?

I find it a little bit OTT personally (unless I'm missing the point) I don't see why somebody would pursue a career as a cashier if they're gonna refuse to serve people buying certain goods..

 

[emyandpotato]

I think it's that they do not want to promote something that goes against their religious teachings. But like others have said, most would have no problem just scanning it through.

 

[amytrisha]

Ah fair enough, but they're not promoting it as such.. The shop promotes it, I'd understand not wanting to wear a tshirt advertising a £5 bottle of wine. It's all so confusing I just don't think it's necessary to be honest..

Seems like a publicity stunt for M&S or something!

 

[OmarsMum]

It's not only about consuming alcohol/ pork.

c. Not only those who drink alcohol are cursed but also those who deal with them directly or indirectly are cursed by Allah. According to Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3380. It was reported by Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:
“God’s curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else.”

 

[Eternal]

I think it's that they do not want to promote something that goes against their religious teachings. But like others have said, most would have no problem just scanning it through.

True, but then of someone feels that strongly about not wanting to promote
Alcohol then Surely they shouldn't work their we it promotes and supports the company just being there?

I just feel lol personally despite the fact I don't drink, and never have, it wouldn't bother me at all scanning a bottle of wine, however, I wouldn't work in a pub, mostly as I don't want to be around alcohol to that extent and two because I have no idea about alcohol then I don't know what drinks to mix or what certain drinks look like.

I do think this is a media hate campaign against Muslims, but it does seem an odd rule, I wonder how far it could be taken if say, mark didn't allow the same privileges to vegetarians?

 

[Eternal]

It's not only about consuming alcohol/ pork.

c. Not only those who drink alcohol are cursed but also those who deal with them directly or indirectly are cursed by Allah. According to Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3380. It was reported by Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:
“God’s curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else.”

So, would you choose to work in marks and Spencer? Or a super market?

What is the reason for not drinking? Seems a harsh law?

We don't drink it because we believe it's not healthy for our bodies.

 

[OmarsMum]

It's not only about consuming alcohol/ pork.

c. Not only those who drink alcohol are cursed but also those who deal with them directly or indirectly are cursed by Allah. According to Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3380. It was reported by Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:
“God’s curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else.”

So, would you choose to work in marks and Spencer? Or a super market?

What is the reason for not drinking? Seems a harsh law?

We don't drink it because we believe it's not healthy for our bodies.

The same reason, not healthy to the body, the rules are there to eliminate promoting alcohol.

In a western country Muslims are allowed to work in places that sell pork/alcohol if it's the only available job, even if they have to sell them (if they will lose their jobs if they don't do it), then it's ok. But working in a bar for example is not permitted & considered as a sin as the main income of the business is from serving alcohol.

It's not a harsh rule, but I think it's a joke to consider scanning alcohol & pork as part of the rules. It's not like the salesperson is discussing prices or advising customers on what type of alcohol bottle to buy, or they're working at the pork selling counter.

Some supermarkets sell pork here, in free zone areas alcohol is sold, I've never heard or seen a Muslim complaining about scanning those or asking the customer to move to the next counter.

I lol when I read similar articles about Islam in Western countries, believe it or not, we're more relaxed in Muslim countries, we have Christmas trees all around (there was an article here about something to do with Muslims & Christmas trees??) , Alcohol & pork are served in hotels where many Muslims work.

 

[amytrisha]

It's not only about consuming alcohol/ pork.

c. Not only those who drink alcohol are cursed but also those who deal with them directly or indirectly are cursed by Allah. According to Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3380. It was reported by Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:
“God’s curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else.”

Thank you! Now this makes way more sense!

I still however think it's one big pr stunt for M&S considering like you say most Muslims are pretty relaxed and I'm sure if they had a problem scanning or serving alcohol or pork they wouldn't pursue a career in retail or hospitality..
M&S are the only shop doing it so I defo think it's just a scheme for them rather than them respecting and religions/faiths tbh

 

[Eternal]

It's not only about consuming alcohol/ pork.

c. Not only those who drink alcohol are cursed but also those who deal with them directly or indirectly are cursed by Allah. According to Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3380. It was reported by Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:
“God’s curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else.”

So, would you choose to work in marks and Spencer? Or a super market?

What is the reason for not drinking? Seems a harsh law?

We don't drink it because we believe it's not healthy for our bodies.

The same reason, not healthy to the body, the rules are there to eliminate promoting alcohol.

In a western country Muslims are allowed to work in places that sell pork/alcohol if it's the only available job, even if they have to sell them (if they will lose their jobs if they don't do it), then it's ok. But working in a bar for example is not permitted & considered as a sin as the main income of the business is from serving alcohol.

It's not a harsh rule, but I think it's a joke to consider scanning alcohol & pork as part of the rules. It's not like the salesperson is discussing prices or advising customers on what type of alcohol bottle to buy, or they're working at the pork selling counter.

Some supermarkets sell pork here, in free zone areas alcohol is sold, I've never heard or seen a Muslim complaining about scanning those or asking the customer to move to the next counter.

I lol when I read similar articles about Islam in Western countries, believe it or not, we're more relaxed in Muslim countries, we have Christmas trees all around (there was an article here about something to do with Muslims & Christmas trees??) , Alcohol & pork are served in hotels where many Muslims work.

Really interesting.

Most Muslims I've ever come into contact with have never made issues about Christmas, or anything like that, I think it's a massive media stunt to turn people against each other. Obviously their are extremists, but all people have that.

I do find it crazy that marks have issued this, and really wonder what the idea behind it is.

Sorry, the word harsh wasn't the best, strict is maybe better, although sounds like they make exactions to that rule.