My breathing monitor went off last night!

[WantsALittle1]

Wow. That's incredible. It is so great to hear that these things actually save lives. Thank you for sharing and I'm so glad that your LO is okay!

 

[Leesy]

Shouldn't you go to a doctor if you think your Lo has stopped breathing in the night?

Sorry, still think they are an unnecessary stress and no evidence they prevent SIDS.

No one has ever claimed they prevent sids (the manufacturers i mean). It's an alarm to alert you if the baby stops breathing, not to prevent it from happening.

 

[WantsALittle1]

I agree with all the PPs about the function that these movement monitors serve (peace of mind), and that they seriously have the potential to save lives. It seems like a pretty simple system: SIDS is a sudden cessation of breathing that would, logically, cause the sufferer to stop moving. The stillness of a non-breathing baby triggers the alarm, which at best may startle the baby into breathing again and if not, will get the parents to the crib in time to perform CPR. The fact that research hasn't been done to confirm that lives are saved is frankly weird to me. I still don't understand it. Can someone explain how it could NOT work? Has there ever been a case of SIDS when the LO was having his/her movements monitored? I tried to look up studies but could not find a single one that investigated the claim that movement monitors haven't been proven to save lives. Can anyone cite a study?

 

[Lois22]

We have a Tomee Tippee sensor pad - it does go off every now and then as she moves off the pad. The pad is tiny compared to the cot and she moves a lot! I never panick when it goes off. It's just a 'I'll go move her back again'.

Xx

 

[readytotry]

I agree with all the PPs about the function that these movement monitors serve (peace of mind), and that they seriously have the potential to save lives. It seems like a pretty simple system: SIDS is a sudden cessation of breathing that would, logically, cause the sufferer to stop moving. The stillness of a non-breathing baby triggers the alarm, which at best may startle the baby into breathing again and if not, will get the parents to the crib in time to perform CPR. The fact that research hasn't been done to confirm that lives are saved is frankly weird to me. I still don't understand it. Can someone explain how it could NOT work? Has there ever been a case of SIDS when the LO was having his/her movements monitored? I tried to look up studies but could not find a single one that investigated the claim that movement monitors haven't been proven to save lives. Can anyone cite a study?

https://fsid.org.uk/document.doc?id=43

https://sidsandkidswa.org/assets/info-statements/home_monitoring.pdf

 

[_jellybean_]

I agree with all the PPs about the function that these movement monitors serve (peace of mind), and that they seriously have the potential to save lives. It seems like a pretty simple system: SIDS is a sudden cessation of breathing that would, logically, cause the sufferer to stop moving. The stillness of a non-breathing baby triggers the alarm, which at best may startle the baby into breathing again and if not, will get the parents to the crib in time to perform CPR. The fact that research hasn't been done to confirm that lives are saved is frankly weird to me. I still don't understand it. Can someone explain how it could NOT work? Has there ever been a case of SIDS when the LO was having his/her movements monitored? I tried to look up studies but could not find a single one that investigated the claim that movement monitors haven't been proven to save lives. Can anyone cite a study?

https://fsid.org.uk/document.doc?id=43

https://sidsandkidswa.org/assets/info-statements/home_monitoring.pdf

Reading this, from the article you posted, is enough to make me feel that they are worth it--

Advantages of movement monitors
• If a baby has an apnoeic attack for longer than the
pre-set time, the monitor will alarm. Most babies
start breathing again spontaneously or when
picked up. Very occasionally it may be necessary
to attempt resuscitation. Many parents who have
previously had a baby die as a cot death find that by
using a movement monitor they gain reassurance
with their next baby from knowing that they will
be alerted should the baby stop making normal
breathing movements.



My monitors don't cause me stress, but I think it's still (of course) important to follow SIDS guidelines--no smoking, baby to sleep on back, not too warm, etc.

 

[WantsALittle1]

https://fsid.org.uk/document.doc?id=43

https://sidsandkidswa.org/assets/info-statements/home_monitoring.pdf

The first of these documents has a citation for the statement that infants "can and do die whilst on monitors." I tracked down the citation and read it--the two infants that died (out of only a handful studied) were not connected to the monitors at the times of their death. The author ultimately concludes that "To my knowledge, no infant has actually died while using one of these monitors." Of course the monitor that the researchers are discussing is not a standard home movement monitor, but a respiratory monitor being used in hospitals. The people who summarized their study did a poor job of it! I don't know how the person who wrote the document you linked to would come to the conclusion that babies die whilst being monitored unless the cause was something that CPR could not fix. The second and third references in that document are, respectively, a vaguely titled and yet unpublished study and a news article. I still don't see any convincing, non-anecdotal evidence that says that home movement monitors are not valuable tools in reducing the incidence of SIDS.

The second link has a sort of roundabout argument, IMO. Previous instances of bradycardia and apnea are not predictors of SIDS (this is widely known, because a SIDS diagnosis means precisely that the cause is unknown). These studies seem to say that apnea monitoring does not reduce the risk of SIDS, and I agree with that statement. Monitoring itself is not a cure. The point of monitoring is to identify the moment when breathing stops so that the parent can rush to the bedside and perform CPR. I still do not see any way in which this system could fail unless the death was due to something that is not SIDS (like a brain aneurysm, etc) or the monitor itself failed. If the baby was going to die of SIDS (a sudden, unexplainable cessation of cardiopulmonary function), then conceivably all that would be required to resusciate the baby is CPR administered before it's too late.

I'd still like to see a clear statement somewhere that a baby actually died of *SIDS* while on a home movement monitor that was turned on, not mechanically defunct, being used properly, and where the parents were able to get to the cribside to perform CPR. Those links were to documents summarizing the research of others, and that is prone to misinterpretation. Does anyone know of a single study that discusses a SIDS death of an infant who was being monitored on an Angelcare or Snuza-like apparatus? I would really like to hear of such a study so that I can be better informed.

My movement monitor has gone off two times due to a non-mechanical problem such as the baby rolling off the pad, or the pad sensitivity being too low. Once, we rushed to the cribside to find her breathing (the alarm had probably startled her into it), but with a heavy mottled liquid sound. She had spit up a bit in the night, and it had gone into her windpipe. We picked her up, patted her firmly on the back, she coughed, and was fine. The second time, she was in a deep sleep and had just not taken a breath in a long time.

 

[WantsALittle1]

PS. I want to add that I do not think that a movement monitor is a substitute for good SIDS prevention. Parents should still practice no smoking, back to sleep, no blankets/pillows/stuffed animals in the crib, good ventilation and light sleepwear. To me, the movement monitor provides solid peace of mind, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Meredith2010]

I suppose I find it somewhat contradictory that various sources state that breathing monitors are unnecessary and that they don't recommend them, but then go on to say that if there is family history of SIDS then breathing monitors are recommended (such as the FSID). Surely if they were that pointless then they wouldn't be recommended at all?

Ok I realise that they mean hospital grade monitors and not "off the shelf" ones, but still they do the same job at the end of the day so I struggle to understand why some authorities are so against them being used routinely. Surely at worst they are just an extra precaution? I certainly can't see how a baby ON a breathing monitor is more at risk than a baby NOT on a breathing monitor.

The only reason I can think of that they aren't recommended is because there is the concern that people become complacent and don't look for other signs that baby might be unwell. But really, if someone goes to the extent and cost of buying a breathing monitor then I really don't think this is likely.

 

[Noelle610]

I suppose I find it somewhat contradictory that various sources state that breathing monitors are unnecessary and that they don't recommend them, but then go on to say that if there is family history of SIDS then breathing monitors are recommended (such as the FSID). Surely if they were that pointless then they wouldn't be recommended at all?

Ok I realise that they mean hospital grade monitors and not "off the shelf" ones, but still they do the same job at the end of the day so I struggle to understand why some authorities are so against them being used routinely. Surely at worst they are just an extra precaution? I certainly can't see how a baby ON a breathing monitor is more at risk than a baby NOT on a breathing monitor.

The only reason I can think of that they aren't recommended is because there is the concern that people become complacent and don't look for other signs that baby might be unwell. But really, if someone goes to the extent and cost of buying a breathing monitor then I really don't think this is likely.

What is the difference between a retail breathing monitor and a hospital grade one? I'm really curious to know. My "Baby Bargains" book, which was written by pediatricians (it's popular in the US), says they're not a necessity unless your child has a health issue and in that case you should have a hospital grade monitor. I genuinely have no idea if there's much of a difference. They didn't clarify.

 

[readytotry]

wantalittle nice selective reading there! What about the fourth link?

"A further survey of UK consultant paediatricians, conducted in 1993, found 64 babies had died whilst on movement monitors at home (4)."

I am sure that these monitors provide lots of reassurance to parents and therefore are valuable for that alone. But they do not prevent SIDS and all major organisations involved in SIDS research recommend NOT using them for healthy babies.

 

[Meredith2010]

I suppose I find it somewhat contradictory that various sources state that breathing monitors are unnecessary and that they don't recommend them, but then go on to say that if there is family history of SIDS then breathing monitors are recommended (such as the FSID). Surely if they were that pointless then they wouldn't be recommended at all?

Ok I realise that they mean hospital grade monitors and not "off the shelf" ones, but still they do the same job at the end of the day so I struggle to understand why some authorities are so against them being used routinely. Surely at worst they are just an extra precaution? I certainly can't see how a baby ON a breathing monitor is more at risk than a baby NOT on a breathing monitor.

The only reason I can think of that they aren't recommended is because there is the concern that people become complacent and don't look for other signs that baby might be unwell. But really, if someone goes to the extent and cost of buying a breathing monitor then I really don't think this is likely.

What is the difference between a retail breathing monitor and a hospital grade one? I'm really curious to know. My "Baby Bargains" book, which was written by pediatricians (it's popular in the US), says they're not a necessity unless your child has a health issue and in that case you should have a hospital grade monitor. I genuinely have no idea if there's much of a difference. They didn't clarify.

To be honest I have no idea as I haven't looked into it. I assume they must be more rigorously tested and more sophisticated somehow? You also get support with using them if you have a medical/historical need I believe.

I fully get that they aren't a necessity, but then again what baby item is?! But I still will never understand how they can be a bad thing. Non-essential maybe, but a baby who stops breathing whilst on a monitor has a better chance than a baby who stops breathing somewhere where it can't be picked up surely?

 

[WantsALittle1]

...
The only reason I can think of that they aren't recommended is because there is the concern that people become complacent and don't look for other signs that baby might be unwell. But really, if someone goes to the extent and cost of buying a breathing monitor then I really don't think this is likely...

I think you have a really good point there!

 

[WantsALittle1]

wantalittle nice selective reading there! What about the fourth link?

"A further survey of UK consultant paediatricians, conducted in 1993, found 64 babies had died whilst on movement monitors at home (4)."

I am sure that these monitors provide lots of reassurance to parents and therefore are valuable for that alone. But they do not prevent SIDS and all major organisations involved in SIDS research recommend NOT using them for healthy babies.

No need to be mean. I didn't see that reference. I am looking for an actual study that I can read. I couldn't find that paper anywhere online--a google search brought up only references. I did find one abstract https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3960613 that describes SIDS cases when infants were sent home on hospital-grade apnea monitors, but I still don't understand how it's possible.

Judging by the title of reference #4 above, this paper appears to be about deaths with babies who were sent home on apnea monitors. It's still surprising, but I assume that those would be very ill babies, probably premature or NICU-discharged, who were sent home with lung and cardiovascular problems. I seriously doubt that the monitors simply missed a desat or bradycardia and didn't alert the parents. I am assuming, but welcome correction, that the parents rushed to the bedside and were unable to resuscitate the infants. That is why I'm seeking links to actual studies, so I can answer these questions and do a better job of SIDS prevention in our home. I am really just trying to understand how someone could die if their movements (a proxy for breathing) are being monitored.

 

[Leesy]

I am sure that these monitors provide lots of reassurance to parents and therefore are valuable for that alone. But they do not prevent SIDS and all major organisations involved in SIDS research recommend NOT using them for healthy babies.

Of course the monitors don't prevent sids, they alert you if the baby stops breathing so you can act accordingly. If the monitor prevented sids, the baby wouldn't stop breathing in the first place.

A genuine question - Why is it recommended to not use a monitor on a healthy baby? I use an anglecare on my healthy baby but of course I follow all sids guidelines too. The monitor just gives me peace of mind to go to sleep at night, whats the harm in that?

 

[Noelle610]

I am sure that these monitors provide lots of reassurance to parents and therefore are valuable for that alone. But they do not prevent SIDS and all major organisations involved in SIDS research recommend NOT using them for healthy babies.

Of course the monitors don't prevent sids, they alert you if the baby stops breathing so you can act accordingly. If the monitor prevented sids, the baby wouldn't stop breathing in the first place.

A genuine question - Why is it recommended to not use a monitor on a healthy baby? I use an anglecare on my healthy baby but of course I follow all sids guidelines too. The monitor just gives me peace of mind to go to sleep at night, whats the harm in that?

Here is the reasoning I found online. From a pediatrician, but there's no study cited or anything like that.

https://www.babycenter.com/404_will-a-baby-monitor-help-keep-my-baby-safe_7696.bc

Depending on your needs and your baby's, a baby monitor may provide some reassurance. There are different kinds of monitors: Some allow you to listen to the sounds in your baby's room, some monitor movements and set off an alarm if your baby's breathing is interrupted, and some are simple video cameras.

Monitors have not been shown to prevent SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome), but if your baby has had an apparent life threatening event (ALTE), such as a prolonged lack of breathing longer than about 15 to 20 seconds, a monitor can be a practical aid. Doctors also sometimes recommend breathing monitors for babies who have chronic breathing problems from conditions such as severe asthma, cystic fibrosis, or sleep apnea.

Some movement monitors are too sensitive, sounding the alarm and waking everyone unnecessarily. Even less sensitive monitors that simply allow you to listen to your baby can be troublesome if you find yourself responding to every little sigh or movement that your healthy baby makes throughout the night. Not only will this disturb your sleep, it can also disrupt your baby's normal sleep cycles. On the other hand, if you find the sound of your sleeping infant comforting, a monitor may reassure you that all is well in your baby's room.

I don't think anyone believes them to be "bad", I just think there's a disagreement - that includes among moms and in the medical community - as to whether or not they are a necessity for a healthy baby, if that makes sense. At the end of the day, it's one of those topics that's tough to discuss without emotion attached, so it's hard to do in a fact-based manner.

 

[WantsALittle1]

I am sure that these monitors provide lots of reassurance to parents and therefore are valuable for that alone. But they do not prevent SIDS and all major organisations involved in SIDS research recommend NOT using them for healthy babies.

Of course the monitors don't prevent sids, they alert you if the baby stops breathing so you can act accordingly. If the monitor prevented sids, the baby wouldn't stop breathing in the first place.

A genuine question - Why is it recommended to not use a monitor on a healthy baby? I use an anglecare on my healthy baby but of course I follow all sids guidelines too. The monitor just gives me peace of mind to go to sleep at night, whats the harm in that?

The only negative thing I've ever heard about is the potential for anxiety if the system should have false alarms. Other things are the cost involved, and the fact that some parents will use the monitor in lieu of good SIDS-prevention practices. They'll start putting their baby asleep on their stomachs, or with dolls and blankets, etc.

 

[GreyGirl]

I'm so glad your LO is ok! It's stories like this that are exactly why I bought an Angelcare monitor. We bought it when she was around a month old and to be honest it's one of the best things I've bought. Before that I didn't sleep well and my dreams only returned after which shows it's helping me be less stressed. I've been worried about SIDS from the start and cried the first night home when I honestly believed that if I put her down to sleep she would die in the night - we took that first night in shifts literally just watching her sleep. I do no regret buying the monitor for a second.

 

[corgankidd]

wantalittle nice selective reading there! What about the fourth link?

"A further survey of UK consultant paediatricians, conducted in 1993, found 64 babies had died whilst on movement monitors at home (4)."

I am sure that these monitors provide lots of reassurance to parents and therefore are valuable for that alone. But they do not prevent SIDS and all major organisations involved in SIDS research recommend NOT using them for healthy babies.

Just want to point out that snuzas and angelcare monitors weren't even available in 1993 so this is definitely babies sent home with some health issues on a hospital grade machine. There were probably serious health issues involved and so the movement monitors had no affect on the baby's outcome.
There are probably not any good studies showing that monitors have saved baby's lives because in order to know that you would have to somehow live in two different dimensions - one where the baby didn't have a movement monitor and died in its sleep and one where the baby did have a monitor which alarmed and the parents running to the crib and waking their baby was enough to save its life.
So really none of the studies you cite have any relevance cause there is no way to know if a babies life was saved from one of these monitors or not. But if a parent believes that it will help and it brings them peace of mind then I see no harm and no reason to argue the point.

 

[readytotry]

But if a parent believes that it will help and it brings them peace of mind then I see no harm and no reason to argue the point.

You know what, I wouldn't want to argue against that. Of course parents should buy them if they think they will be reassured.

Apnea is not SIDS though. Babies do die on monitors sadly because sometimes there is nothing that can be done. Sometimes SIDS happens without apnea. Often parents with monitors do not have CPR training so can't actually do anything even if the alarm does sound. People on this thread have suggested they do prevent SIDS even though leading SIDS organisations say they don't. That's the bit that keeps me arguing but I will stop now. If you don't believe FSIDS you won't believe me