Our pick up/put down journey...

[joo]

A bit of background that's led us to try PU/PD:

Spoiler

It seems we were hit by this "4 month sleep regression". H started out as a brilliant sleeper. But sometime after 3 months, somewhere along the line she stopped being able to self soothe (she needed to be stroked before but at least we could put her down when she was drowsy) and we've been holding her until she's asleep before putting her down. I knew this would be a problem (as much as I love cuddling her) and it seems now it is a big problem! A few weeks ago she started waking every 45mins to 1 hour, not only that but when she's fallen asleep and we put her down she wakes up and cries. This means that she needs holding for a lot longer. I'm only getting 30-50mins sleep, she wakes up and then I have to hold her for anything up to an hour with a few failed attempts to put her down. Then I try to go to sleep and she'll sometimes wake 10 mins later or she'll go 45mins - 1 hour. I showed OH the PU/PD method a few weeks ago but he said she wasn't ready and wanted to wait it out for a couple of weeks to see if she sorted herself out.

Well last week we thought she'd cracked it as we had a few nights of back to normal and we all started to feel a bit better - paying off a bit of sleep debt and feeling as though we could see light at the end of the tunnel! But from the weekend she's just been awful at night again. Every hour or less. Sometimes waking up 10 mins after being put in her crib, if she let us put her down at all! Some nights I just gave up and let her sleep with me in the bed because I was desperate for sleep. It's not the waking up that's the problem (there's not a lot I can do about this if it's due to this sleep regression) - it's the fact she can't get herself back to sleep and I have to hold her for up to an hour each time or bring her into the bed and I can't keep up with this anymore. I don't mind her coming into our bed, in fact we co-sleep every morning after her 4am wake-up for 2 hours and have done since she was about 6 weeks old. I just don't want it to be all night. Plus it's been really hot recently and I'm also really, really tired so don't feel like it's very safe at the moment.

This month has been miserable. I'm too tired to do anything so we have pretty much been indoors not doing much. I now have next to no patience with her at night so OH is having to help and settle her once or twice every night because I very quickly get angry or break down in tears. I feel awful about OH having to get up because I can see how shattered he is and he's been working 10-12 hour days. I worry about him all the time because I know he has to drive and has to operate machinery. Also I have been an absolute evil witch to OH. I can hear the way I talk to him but I just can't stop it!!! And the bad thing is he's started snapping back. He's the most laid back and normally ignores it so for him to be mad at me means I'm really taking a toll on him.

Anyway, now OH is on board with starting PU/PD as she's almost 5 months old and he agrees she has got used to being cuddled to sleep and needs to get back to self soothing. We both agree we don't want to try Cry It Out or Controlled Crying (which aren't recommended until 6months anyway).

So... we started last night. I'm going to keep a log and try an update daily in case anyone wants to see if it works for us before they try it or has any experience and wants to add their tips.

 

[joo]

The method:

Spoiler

Bed time routine - bath at 7:15pm, feed at 7:30pm, cuddle and quiet time, bed at 8pm.
Put baby in crib, awake but tired. Leave to settle, ignoring "mantra crying".
If she cries then put hand on her chest, shhh her and tell her it's sleepy time.
If she still cries then pick her up, shhh her and tell her it's sleepy time.
Put back down as soon as crying stops or after 5 minutes (which ever comes first).
If still crying when put down, then pick back up, ssshhh and tell her it's sleepy time.
Try to settle in crib between each pick up.

The aim of the pick up is to stop the crying, not to get her to sleep - she needs to do that bit herself.

We're just doing bed time and night wakings to start with. Eventually (if PU/PD is working for us) we'll try it for naps during the day too - although soon she will be napping upstairs in her cot rather than downstairs in her bouncer/on the sofa, so I might wait until then... we'll just see how it goes.

Night 1

I was dreading it! It was OH's turn to put her down (we take it in turns each night so baby doesn't get used to just one of us at bed time). I was dreading the crying, and was sure that she would be one of the 'extreme' examples and take 3 hours to settle. I was also a bit reluctant to let OH do the first night in case he didn't do it right. Anyway I fed her, gave her a cuddle and OH took her and put her in the crib at 7:55pm and came and sat on the bed with me (out of baby's sight). She had a little chatter, then started mithering, then crying. OH went and tried to settle in her crib. As expected, it didn't work and so the pick ups and put downs began.

I sat on the bed (mostly for moral support but partly so I could make sure he was doing it right haha) and I had my timer on my phone set at 5 minutes and a memo open so I could count the pick ups. I reset the timer at every pick up. To start with, OH was holding her for nearly the full 5 minutes, but never got to the point of putting her down still crying. Although she did start crying as soon as he lowered her into the crib.

About half way through was when baby started really screaming. OH and I just looked at each other while our hearts were breaking. She felt so sorry for herself. At this stage she would stop crying pretty much as soon as picked up, so the timer didn't go below 4 minutes.

We thought she showed no signs of letting up, but all of a sudden she stayed quiet on the put down. OH and I just looked at each other in shock as she'd just been screaming and we didn't expect it to be that sudden. We held our breath expecting her to start again, but she didn't.

It took 40 minutes and 32 pick ups! The whole time I was timing and counting, as well as giving him thumbs up and mouthing to him that he was doing a good job. As soon as she went down I asked OH how long he thought it took and he thought it was an hour so he was surprised with 40 minutes.

OH and I tip-toed downstairs and talked it out. I think OH was somewhat reluctant to try it and also during the pick up/put down we both felt at some point that it wasn't going to work. We both had the same thoughts going through... how it looked good on paper and everyone says it's more gentle than cry it out or controlled crying, yet when actually doing it we felt cruel and like we were teasing her by picking her up. We were both shocked how sudden she went down without crying, as we both expected more of a gradual decrease in crying and volume. OH said he felt really proud of himself when she went down without crying and I could tell he had faith in what we were doing, whereas before he seemed reluctant and also wanted to set a time limit and if it didn't work didn't want to try again the next night even after I'd explained that we need to be consistent!

So she didn't wake up until midnight when it was my turn. I'd been dreading the middle of the night wakings because everything seems much louder and we're in a terrace so I'm so worried about upsetting the neighbours. Anyway, it took me 25 minutes and 15 pick ups and the crying wasn't very loud or intense. When I put her down she was still awake and looking at me, but she turned her head and went to sleep on her own! A couple of hours later she started fidgeting and I think she was mithering but I can't remember. I leaned over and put her dummy in and she went straight off to sleep again. She woke up at 3:55am so I took her into bed and fed her as she'd not had a feed since 7:30pm.

I'm still tired today. After all, it doesn't make her wake up less (it wasn't every hour last night so I'm pleased with that). The only thing today is she isn't being put down for her naps easily. I don't know if it's to do with last night, but she wakes up as soon as put down and is all smiles. I usually hold her until she's asleep then put her in her bouncer and she doesn't wake up. I'll wait a couple more days and then reconsider how long we wait to PU/PD for daytime naps.


Tonight is my turn, not looking forward to it :-/

 

[joo]

Last night was my turn and I was dreading it!

Bath, feed and quiet cuddle. Baby was in a good mood. I sat quietly with her for about 5 minutes and then at 8pm I took her to her crib, said goodnight and put her down. I sat on our bed out of her sight. She chattered to herself and played with a fabric thing on her bumper, then she started mithering after about 7 minutes. At 8:10 I had to go try and settle her in her crib. She calmed down a bit but I still ended up having to pick her up.

During the whole pick up/put down she was nowhere near as cross or as loud as she was on night 1. Every time I picked her up she stopped crying instantly, sometimes even before I'd got her all the way out of the crib.

After pick up number 7 she settled in her crib but I ruined it - I'd got into a rhythm of saying "It's ok, I'm here. It's sleepy time now." My brain didn't register fast enough that she'd gone down quietly and I said it again while she was quiet so me talking to her made her cry again So pick up/put down continued.

Pretty quickly she decided she was ready to sleep and while I was doing an in-between settle in the crib she turned her body and head (when she wants to go to sleep she half rolls onto her side so her head and chest is on a side but the rest is still laying on her back. Doesn't look very comfy!) and just opened and closed her eyes for a minute before drifting off. At one point she opened them wide and looked up at me and followed me, but then turned her head again and went to sleep.

All in all it took 30 minutes and 35 pick ups. My pick ups were a lot faster than OH's and she settled straight away in my arms so I could put her down straight away.

It was a lot easier than I thought it would be and also not stressful at all, although she wasn't putting up as much of a fight with me as she did the previous night with OH. Before PU/PD, I would get stressed out almost instantly having to pick her up straight away to hold her back to sleep because she'd awoken at being lowered into the crib or being put down. I thought with PU/PD, picking up and putting down more often would make me stressed, but it's actually the opposite. I think it's because I have a plan and I'm sticking to it and following the rules. I'm also not having to hold her for up to an hour before putting her down only for her to wake up again, which is probably where the frustration comes from.

She went down at 8:40pm and didn't wake until 2am! I fed her at this point (not sure if she needed it but she hadn't had a feed since 7:30pm) and she went straight back down again - she had her eyes closed when I put her down but I'd tried to rouse her when burping with no luck. I was expecting her to wake less than an hour later but she woke up at 5:20am at which point I brought her into bed and fed her. The best night we've had in months!!!

Naps have been fine today, except tea time nap which she missed because when OH got her to sleep both times the cat woke her up and then she was wide awake.

We've already put her to bed tonight for night 3 so will update on that tomorrow.

 

[cocosianelle]

I'm keeping an eye on this thread as this is something we'll look at doing if needed.

Sounds like you're doing a great job so far so well done I know it must be hard!

 

[joo]

I'm keeping an eye on this thread as this is something we'll look at doing if needed.

Sounds like you're doing a great job so far so well done I know it must be hard!

Thank you! I really hope it works. Surprisingly it's not as hard as I expected it to be (so far).

 

[felix555]

I'm doing something very similar at the moment except I'm trying to get my lo to settle in his moses basket .... haha truth be told pu/pt probably still applies because at times I'm sitting there with the whole Moses basket with him in it on my lap!

Tonight is night 6 and it only took 20 minutes (10 minutes him blabbering to himself, 5 minutes him moaning a bit and 5 minutes stroking his hair) in total and didn't have to actually lift the basket nor pat him. I simply stoked his hair a bit and that was it.

So I'll be stalking!

 

[cocosianelle]

How old is your LO Felix?

 

[felix555]

He's 3 months 3 weeks. He was getting to the stage where it would take nearly an hour of rocking to get him to sleep so thought I'd try this and I'm amazed it's working. When he wakes up for his feed between 2 and 3 I still rock him back to sleep because he just won't do it in the middle of the night. Still needs to be held for all his naps during the day though otherwise he Won't sleep longer that 15 minutes at a time.

 

[xLaura]

I'm interested in doing this aswell. ATM I have to hold LO till he falls sleep then I can put him in his cot asleep. However when he wakes all I have to do is shhh him and hold his arms by his side (he flings them about and runs his eyes waking him even more) and he will go back sleep without been taken out his cot (most the time anyway). Which is a step in the right direction but I'd like to get him start to fall sleep in his cot. But if I put him down awake he screams and screams. Therefore this method might be useful to him.

Glad it's working for your LO

 

[joo]

Felix555 - at least you're getting him to settle in his moses basket. Hopefully that's all he'll need and you won't need to do any further 'training'! We had trouble with daytime naps too around that time. She'd only sleep for about 20 mins and she wouldn't sleep in her bouncer or moses basket. I ended up holding her for all of her daytime naps from 1 month through to 3. Then I started putting her down on the sofa, she went through a few weeks of going down drowsy but then I had to go back to holding her to sleep before putting her down. She started napping for longer at about 4 months old - first going to 30 mins for a while and now it's mostly 40 mins per nap. Also she's started going for about an hour on her lunch time nap and I can now strap her in her bouncer so I can at least get on with stuff without worrying she'll roll off the sofa

xLaura - That's good that your LO can settle without being taken out of the cot at night. Hopefully that's all you need and you won't need to do any 'training' either!

 

[joo]

Naps were better yesterday, apart from the last nap of the day which is always a bit hit and miss anyway if it falls to close to bed time. She went for a nap but the cat woke her up and then she wouldn't go so I gave her another feed and she was quite happy playing. By the time I gave her the bed time feed she could hardly hold her head up by the end bless her. She was drowsy but almost asleep when OH put her down at 8:07pm and she was out like a light!

I was expecting to have to go back in pretty soon and expected multiple wake ups due to a missed nap. Sure enough we saw her on the baby monitor kicking off at 8:53pm. OH said he'd go because he didn't have to do PU/PD earlier with her being zonked. He went up, put her dummy back and his hand on her chest and she went straight back to sleep. She started again 20 minutes later so OH went again, this time he had to do PU/PD. It took 17 minutes and 18 pick ups, and she did scream quite loudly. I didn't tell him but as I was watching and doing the counting downstairs watching the baby monitor, there were a few times he put her down still crying and a few times he held her too long after she'd stopped crying. I won't bother telling him now though.

That was it until 3:20am! I settled her straight away with dummy and my hand on her chest. But about 10 minutes later she was fidgeting and flailing and I decided to feed her. Regarding the feeding, she's not actually asking to be fed during the night and I know this because if OH picks her up she'll go back to sleep, but I don't know if she's ready to drop this feed because last time I tried it she dropped a centile on her weight chart and the health visitor said she needed the feed. So now I'm too scared to let her go from 7:30am to 4am. Anyway I put her back down at 4am, no problems but she was asleep.

She woke at about 6ish so I brought her in to bed and she went to sleep so I didn't feed her until we woke up at 7. I know this has nothing to do with PU/PD, but I'm a bit confused about her wake up time in the morning. It's usually anywhere from 6:30-8am, but after I've fed her and got her washed and dressed she's pretty much ready for a nap already (usually it takes just over an hour) so I'm guessing she's not ready to get up. So this morning I decided to see if she'd go back to bed. She laid quietly but it took her about 30-45 mins to go to sleep, with a little bit of fighting in between. Then she slept for another hour. So I'm confused about this, but I guess once we've got the nights more established and the waking up and the daytime naps should follow.

Naps today have been ok, but she has taken ages to fall asleep, almost missed another nap today but I managed to salvage it. She's had roughly 3 hours 10 minutes if you count this morning as a nap. Usually she has between 2.5- 3 hours so should be ok.

 

[xLaura]

Regarding her morning naps most babies only go one/two hours after they wake up before they need a nap. My LO used to want a nap and hour on the dot after waking but now he lasts more 2 hours. I was confused at first but then I realised nearly all babies do this, so just go with it hun

 

[joo]

Regarding her morning naps most babies only go one/two hours after they wake up before they need a nap. My LO used to want a nap and hour on the dot after waking but now he lasts more 2 hours. I was confused at first but then I realised nearly all babies do this, so just go with it hun

Thanks xLaura. I've just been getting up and getting her dressed and putting her down to nap straight away pretty much since 2 months old. I only started to question it the other night when I was looking at any sleep sites I could find online and a few of them said if baby wants to go for a nap soon after getting up then it's probably a continuation of her night time sleep. Interestingly one site (sorry, didn't bookmark so don't have the link) said a lot of babies do this when they're getting close to weaning, which she will be soon, and then they settle better in the morning one they're on solids. Regardless of the whys and whens, I think I'll just go with it like you said, and go back to what we were doing before. Today threw our day out too much with getting up so late.

 

[joo]

Grrrrr!!!!

 

[felix555]

Grrrrr!!!!

Same here! Haha ... you've got to laugh or you'll just cry!

 

[joo]

Same here! Haha ... you've got to laugh or you'll just cry!

Lol aww hope it got better for you x

 

[joo]

My turn again.

Put in crib at 8:05pm. She started crying at 8:07pm. Hand on chest didn't work so pick up/put down began. Last night was weird because I had lost all my confidence, wondering if I was doing it right. I think it's because she wasn't properly crying but it was that awkward in-between where you don't know to just leave her to it, but it didn't sound like "mantra crying" either. Anyway I continued and it took 16 pick ups until she settled at 8:20pm and lay awake in her crib until she drifted off at 8:30pm. So about 15 minutes to settle and 25 minutes all in all until she went to sleep. OH gave me a big kiss and said how well I'm doing; already she's laying awake and falling asleep.

OH had to PU/PD at 11pm. She cried a bit more/louder again - I'm noticing she does this with OH and not me. It took 4 pick ups and 10 minutes.

She started again at 1:15am, I put dummy in and hand on chest but she kept taking dummy out. After 5 minutes she chucked the dummy out of the crib so I had to take my hand off her chest while I hunted for it in the dark and she started crying. She settled again with hand on chest and started to fall asleep but then I bashed my elbow on the crib and she woke up and cried so I had to start PU/PD ( ) It took 6 pick ups and about 10 minutes for her to settle. This was the first time I had to keep myself calm, but really I was just annoyed that I bashed my elbow and woke her. At 1:40am I took my hand off her chest because she wasn't going to sleep but just messing with her bumper and taking her dummy out. I was fed up, just sat with my hand on and off her chest, putting dummy back in until she finally went to sleep at 2:30am. Hence my grumble post before

It's so hard with the dummy! The dummy always falls out of her mouth while I'm picking her up because her mouth is busy crying. Then she stops crying when picked up, at which point I'm meant to put her down immediately but I'm still faffing trying to put the dummy back in before I put her down. A lot of the stuff I've seen about PU/PD recommend doing it without the dummy but some say it can be done with the dummy. And of course, when she wakes in the night I still have to give her the dummy. She's not ready to give it up yet so I'll just stick with it for now.

I'm not sure why she kept waking up last night but have to remember that PU/PD isn't teaching her to STTN but to fall asleep by herself (with her dummy in). I suppose I shouldn't complain, after all we had two amazing nights before that. It does seem that she is learning to settle and it's taking less time and less pick ups each night.

Naps have been ok today but she is taking ages to go to sleep. She only had half an hour at lunch time so my heart sunk at that but she had a monster 2 hour nap this afternoon. I hope that doesn't bite me in the backside tonight...

 

[joo]

oops triple post!

 

[joo]

Ooops triple post!

 

[joo]

Done it again! At least I have being tired as an excuse