should i stop messing around with feeds or is this ok?

[catty]

My baby is 24 days old and has been breastfed exclusively until the start of this week

he began waking constantly throughout the nighy so i decided to start giving him formula for 2 feeds during the night, this made him very settled and he can go for 2-3 hours during the night now unlike before when sometimes he woke every 30 mins.

During the day he is breastfed but i think he gets irrated at my boob as he cant get the milk as easily he will actually scream at me but eventually latches on.
Iv also started expressing as my boobs get sore and i can express 150ml at a time so have been giving him this when were out for the day.

Is this ok breastfeeding him, giving him expressed milk in a bottle and formuka at night? I dont want to confuse him and worry my milk will run out.

I think i might be messing this up

 

[SarahBear]

I'm not really experienced with combi-feeding and I never researched it because I knew I would want to stick with exclusive breastfeeding, but what I do know is that it can be a dangerous path as many people end up on exclusive formula. I have heard of people successfully combi-feeding, however. My one bit of advice would be to do your research before going too far down this path unless you're OK with your baby being off breast milk early. If you do your research, you're more likely to be able to make it work.

 

[babyJM]

Hi Catty! I combine feed. My baby is just over 9 weeks old. I had to start topping up with formula in hospital as I had a very big baby and she was very hungry very early, so the pead said I must. Its been 9 LONG weeks of trying to just exclusive breastfeed but I seem to keep going back to the combine feeding. I breastfeed, express feed and top up with 1 bottle of formula feed a day (sometimes she takes it sometimes not). One thing I am starting to learn is that she is starting to prefer the bottle, so she's refusing the breast more and more. Then I have to express my milk into a bottle and give that to her. If I were you, try and persist with the breast because I cant believe how clever they are so young! The times in the day were I started giving the bottle is the times now that she refuses the breast because she is expecting her bottle. BF, pumping and formula is very exhausting to do at the same time so I really would advice to try and stick to the breast feeding. And ALWAYS offer your breast first before bottle as this will help keep your milk supply good, if you start replacing feeds with a formula bottle, your milk supply will suffer. Hope I was of any help. Good luck!

 

[Debi]

Hey Catty, congrats on your LO! Aw it is sooo hard at the beginning when they are feeding constantly, well done you for keeping going with it! Are you nursing at all through the night? When you nurse more at night it increases your prolactin levels which in turn increases your supply through the day too.

Introducing a bottle quite young does increase the chances of nipple confusion where LO might start to prefer the bottle over breast as they can get the milk quicker.

Expressing and feeding from a bottle can also interrupt production as when you are feeding LO expressed milk, they aren't nursing from you, and as bf works by supply and demand, this will affect your supply.

Have you had Lo's latch checked for problems if it is hurting? Could you maybe check out a local breastfeeding support group?

 

[MommyJogger]

Combination feeding, especially this early, is a really slippery slope. If your goal is to continue breastfeeding, I would recommend against using formula top ups, especially at night. Formula feeding causes baby to go longer between feeds, allowing your breasts to fill more, which results in a feedback loop telling your breasts to stop producing milk. Nighttime nursing is very important to supply because the hormone prolactin is at its highest at night, which is laying the foundation for long-term breastfeeding success by telling your body that it needs lots of prolactin receptors. So not night nursing will usually result in a supply that decreases more and more as time goes on. Bottle feeding this early can also lead to nipple confusion, where the baby either learns to latch in a non-natural way or gets used to the fast flow of milk from a bottle nipple and is more impatient at the breast, sometimes leading to refusal of the breast. If you want to breastfeed and are able, nursing from the breast on demand is the best way to assure success. Young babies wake a lot at night. On average, it gets better as they get older. Is he eating every time he wakes or is he just latching on and falling asleep without eating when he wakes? Have you considered practicing safe cosleeping if you're having trouble not getting enough sleep? It saved my life and I can't imagine doing anything else now, even though before giving birth I swore I'd never do it.

babyJM-- I would respectfully say that your area is not very bf friendly and it's possible your pediatrician doesn't have much accurate knowledge about breastfeeding. A large baby that seems 'hungry' is not a reason to combination feed. Women are capable of breastfeeding multiple babies and babies of all sizes vary very little in their bm intake in terms of how much your body is able to produce. It's quite common for a newborn baby to want to nurse more hours in the day than they don't want to nurse in the beginning and the more you let baby nurse, the more milk your body will ramp up and make. The only reliable way of telling if your baby is getting enough milk is to watch diaper output. If you're okay combination feeding, I don't want to offend you by saying any of this and that's fine, but if exclusive breastfeeding is something you want to do, I would say that this early in, it's still possible to get off of the formula and there are women on the forum who have done the same and can give advice. I just wanted you to know that there's another option besides following what may possibly have been sabotaging advice from your paed.
Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I've seen several threads advising to lower the amt of formula you're giving by 1oz every few days until baby is back to the breast completely and to count wet diapers during the transition. Like you said, offer the breast before the bottle and then I believe that as you're cutting the volume of formula down, you can offer the breast both before and after, both for the nipple stimulation and because you'll likely get another letdown easily and it will help increase your supply.

 

[ThunderPearls]

Top ups and Combi-feeding are what led to me ending up just formula feeding. My baby started off fine swapping between bottles and boob and showed no preference but as time went on he ended up flatly refusing my boob and would scream and claw at me if I tried, only calming when I gave a bottle.

If you persist with bottlesthen try and get one most similar to a breast with a slow flow and maybe that will help to stop a preference.

Also to keep supply up maybe add a pumping session or two during the night or after last feed and after first morninh feed.

 

[catty]

Thanks so much for all the advice has been so useful!!! I am still confused at what to do and feel i have ruined a perfectly good breastfed baby

He was a perfect latcher, such a content baby (except nighttime) and now he is crying alot in the day too

I went and bought new bottles the other day and the hole on them must of been to small he cudnt get the milk out so i have been breastfeeding the past 18 hours or so and he is hating me

 

[MommyJogger]

Thanks so much for all the advice has been so useful!!! I am still confused at what to do and feel i have ruined a perfectly good breastfed baby

He was a perfect latcher, such a content baby (except nighttime) and now he is crying alot in the day too

I went and bought new bottles the other day and the hole on them must of been to small he cudnt get the milk out so i have been breastfeeding the past 18 hours or so and he is hating me

You have definitely not ruined your baby and you can still have a beautiful breastfeeding relationship.
Even the slowest flow nipple should be a relatively fast flow for a baby that age. What nipples/bottles were they?
How often has he been feeding the past 18 hours? And how are his diapers? Are you keeping track of wet ones? Your previous post implied to me that you have a pump. Do you have someone around to help you with the baby so that you can also pump after feeds? (I'm not sure you need to, but it will help increase your supply and it will give you something besides formula to feed him if you start to get worried that he's not getting enough. I remember all too well how relieving peace of mind is when you have a fussy baby and you're not sure whether they're hungry or fussy about something else.)
ETA: also, what did you mean by your boobs get sore? You mean hard, as in engorgement? Or something else?

 

[catty]

Hi!

It was the tommee tippee 0+ bottles after 20 mins he had only taken about 10mls and he seemed very hungry sucking away it seemed he couldnt get the milk out but maybe he was comfort sucking?
He has had alot of wet nappies but hasnt pooed and he seems like he either has winf or is constipated and keeps moaning.
yes i have a pump i must keep doing it so supply doesnt go down.

I think i might just throw the formula out so i have no option but then im worried that i need it.

Yes they feel really sore and feel much more comfortable once i pump or feed

 

[pinklightbulb]

Babies will suck on anything put in their mouth, it doesn't necessarily mean they are hungry It's a natural instinct for them to suck, they don't always expect milk from a breast (eg when they comfort suck) but will always get it from a bottle so it is really easy to overfeed a new baby who is being combi-fed as they don't know to stop when full from the bottle. Same with a FF. A baby's suck on the breast controls the flow of milk, but they cannot do this with a bottle teat. Also, a bottle teat generally has a faster flow so a BF baby will often get frustrated at the breast after being bottle fed, expecting a faster flow.

I would definitely stop combi-feeding for now, if baby is gaining weight he is getting enough. When was your baby last weighed? Is his weight gain steady? Enough wet and dirty nappies? If so you are good to go with BF only and don't need to supplement. Some docs and even paeds know a pitiful amount about BF as so many women FF as opposed to BF. It's unfortunate but it's the truth.

Also: It's normal for there to be a couple of days between poos with BF babies, as long as poo is soft and yellow-coloured when it comes out. BF babies tend to produce less waste as they use up more of the stuff in your breastmillk than they do formula. Formula can hinder a BF baby's bowel movements and slow them up as baby's digestive system is not used to it.

 

[MommyJogger]

If you're still getting engorged enough for it to hurt or feel uncomfortable, you definitely have enough milk and if you just keep putting him to the breast, you probably don't even need to pump because it sounds like you may even have oversupply.
I would definitely drop the formula cold turkey and just keep putting him to the breast and putting him to the breast. If he is having trouble pooing, breast milk will help that and formula would only make it worse. As long as he's having plenty of wet diapers (4-6 in 24 hours), then everything is going well.
About him being fussy at the breast: are you engorged when he's eating? Is he latching well and then pulling off? If you start the feed engorged, it's possible your flow might be a little overwhelming for him. Do you squirt at all, lol? I had (have) overactive letdown and it would just really overwhelm my son when he was very young. Do you feel your letdown at all?
I definitely agree with everything pinklightbulb said!

 

[pinklightbulb]

Checking in to see how you and bub are going

 

[cautious...]

Hey. I started off combi - feeding due to some issues in and after labour. Some bad advice from a Health Visitor to limit time at the breast further hindered things. However at around 6 weeks I decided to drop the top - ups (my LO had started to take less of the top up). It was a really tough week or two during which LO pretty much either fed or cried constantly but my milk supply did catch up and I've been EBF ever since. My LO is 6 months next week. I wanted to give up so many times but i am so glad i didn't. Good luck! I hope things are going well xx

 

[MalcolmsMiss]

Can I just add too, that for the 1st 6 weeks of bubs life, is when your are establishing a solid supply. So it's natural and positive for them to feed feed feed, to help get your supply up and running. Look at it as him being the other half of the team you both make together, and this is his way of helping out. It's a hard 6 weeks, but it's normal infant behaviour it's very possible to throw the formula, you just need to trust in the process.

A nurse in sounds like the best remedy IMO

 

[catty]

If you're still getting engorged enough for it to hurt or feel uncomfortable, you definitely have enough milk and if you just keep putting him to the breast, you probably don't even need to pump because it sounds like you may even have oversupply.
I would definitely drop the formula cold turkey and just keep putting him to the breast and putting him to the breast. If he is having trouble pooing, breast milk will help that and formula would only make it worse. As long as he's having plenty of wet diapers (4-6 in 24 hours), then everything is going well.
About him being fussy at the breast: are you engorged when he's eating? Is he latching well and then pulling off? If you start the feed engorged, it's possible your flow might be a little overwhelming for him. Do you squirt at all, lol? I had (have) overactive letdown and it would just really overwhelm my son when he was very young. Do you feel your letdown at all?
I definitely agree with everything pinklightbulb said!

I think I definately have enough milk as from just one boob I pumped 4oz which felt like too much to me as it was rock solid , it doesnt squirt until im feeding him, when im feeding him the other breast will start leaking.I decided last night that no matter how much I had to get up I was going to breastfeed, and its now 7am and he only woke at 1am and 4am!!! Thats the best he has ever done. I feel really positive about it today and I am going to continue breastfeeding - I have about 6 bags of expressed milk which il use if we are out in a very public place but apart from that im going to keep at it.

 

[catty]

Thanks for all the help ladies, I didnt realise how much I wanted to breastfeed until writing this. I was of the opinion I would give breastfeeding a go and if it got hard id swap over to formula after a few weeks. But I had been feeling a little off and realise it is from not breastfeeding, im feeling much more positive about it now and I am going to stock with it!! The only downfall is I just wish I knew how much milk he is getting as I sometimes feel he is taking a 10 min feed which doesnt seem much.
Thanks again

 

[catty]

Babies will suck on anything put in their mouth, it doesn't necessarily mean they are hungry It's a natural instinct for them to suck, they don't always expect milk from a breast (eg when they comfort suck) but will always get it from a bottle so it is really easy to overfeed a new baby who is being combi-fed as they don't know to stop when full from the bottle. Same with a FF. A baby's suck on the breast controls the flow of milk, but they cannot do this with a bottle teat. Also, a bottle teat generally has a faster flow so a BF baby will often get frustrated at the breast after being bottle fed, expecting a faster flow.

I would definitely stop combi-feeding for now, if baby is gaining weight he is getting enough. When was your baby last weighed? Is his weight gain steady? Enough wet and dirty nappies? If so you are good to go with BF only and don't need to supplement. Some docs and even paeds know a pitiful amount about BF as so many women FF as opposed to BF. It's unfortunate but it's the truth.

Also: It's normal for there to be a couple of days between poos with BF babies, as long as poo is soft and yellow-coloured when it comes out. BF babies tend to produce less waste as they use up more of the stuff in your breastmillk than they do formula. Formula can hinder a BF baby's bowel movements and slow them up as baby's digestive system is not used to it.

Hi I hadnt seen this post, he hasnt been weighed for 10 days but at that stage he was 3oz more than his birth weight after initially losing weight - 8lb 6 and I feel he is chunkier now - I may actually be overfeeding him as he is sometimes sick alot after a feed sometimes it looks like the entire feed. He has plenty wet nappies so I am not worried about this. Ive decided to continue with bf and have put the formula away. Ferling much more positive about it today

 

[MommyJogger]

Thanks for all the help ladies, I didnt realise how much I wanted to breastfeed until writing this. I was of the opinion I would give breastfeeding a go and if it got hard id swap over to formula after a few weeks. But I had been feeling a little off and realise it is from not breastfeeding, im feeling much more positive about it now and I am going to stock with it!! The only downfall is I just wish I knew how much milk he is getting as I sometimes feel he is taking a 10 min feed which doesnt seem much.
Thanks again

You'd be absolutely astonished at how much a baby can get out in 10 minutes. They're so much faster than a pump and they get more efficient as they get older. Bf an older baby is one of the most pleasant things I've ever done and I can't imagine having the time to do the bottle making dance. For future's sake, just keep in mind that if he starts waking more at night again in the future, there are developmental stages that cause a baby to be wakeful for a time. It has nothing to do with how much milk he's getting. These tend to fall around 4 mo, 8 mo, and whenever baby is learning a big new skill such as crawling or walking or talking. Bf and ff babies both go through it, but a lot of people still fall into the trap at 4mo thinking that formula at night will stop baby from waking. And it might... for a couple nights. Then they get used to it and the night wakings usually come back and stick around until they would have ceased naturally anyway.
I'm really glad things are looking more positive for you!