who has survived a strike?

[seaweed eater]

We've had minor strikes in the past but LO has always been willing to nurse at bedtime no matter what. Not today.

It doesn't help that I'm terrified to let him nurse even if he wanted to, because he's been biting as soon as a nipple is in his mouth. I've been very careful to react calmly; it seems like it's somehow out of his control and that's made him frustrated.

I'm just so sad and not ready to stop BF. Someone please tell me you've gotten through worse!

PS I've read the Kellymom page on nursing strikes so please don't just post a link to that.

 

[superfrizbee]

My DD did the same thing around your LOs age. she wouldnt nurse before bed and just bit me so I had to let her go to sleep without, then I woke her for a feed before I went to bed. she was so sleepy she just fed properly and went straight back to sleep. I would say I had to do this for three days before she went back to feeding normally. In the morning for some reason she wouldn't feed in our bedroom (where I normally feed her first thing) but would downstairs. weird! I think it was because she bit me once and I cried out and it scared her, so she needed to be removed from that association to nurse again.

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks it's really good to hear that things went back to normal. I was hoping LO feed normally during the night but he didn't, despite being used to nursing to go back to sleep and clearly hungry. I'm planning to take a break for today (and pump, of course) and then try again during the night tonight or tomorrow morning when I'm full and he's sleepy...hoping that if we avoid frustration for a day he'll just forget about it, I suppose.

 

[Aimee4311]

Good luck!

Josalyn has gone through 2 biting stages. Thankfully short ones... Normally when it's an especially bad tooth (she's got 7 now!) Hopefully Munchkin quits biting soon and stops his strike!

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks Aimee

It seems like the BF forum has been pretty quiet lately, but I need some support and a place to write everything down so I figured I'd come back and chronicle our progress here.

I'm still not sure what the cause of the strike is. It seems like teething, because it seems like he wants to nurse but can't. But on the other hand, teething tablets and medication haven't made much of a difference so I'm not sure. A LC I just spoke to said it sounded like bottle preference and I probably won't succeed in changing his mind at his age.

So he is still on strike. My hope is to keep my supply up (or increase it, if I can) in the meantime, do whatever I can to encourage him to nurse, and recognize that it's really up to him. So basically I am EP for the foreseeable future.

Here's what I've been doing so far:

I've been trying to reduce any mouth pain in case it is teething. I can't see any teeth but his gums look a little purple and swollen. Gave him Tylenol on Friday, Advil Saturday morning and evening, and teething tablets every so often Sat and Sun.

Trying to increase skin to skin time. I also took a shower with him for the first time today. Can't hurt my supply so I think we will make it part of the routine, at least some mornings. My milk actually let down everywhere on Sunday during STS time -- that hasn't happened in months!!

Trying to offer to nurse, not too much, but only when he asks for it (which he still does), or at bedtime or when he's just woken up (during the night or in the morning). I also try to time my pumping so that I'm not totally empty at those times. Often he will put his mouth on the boob or even latch and suck a few times before turning away. My goal is to be selective enough that he is at least willing to try most times, so that I don't frustrate him.

Giving bottles on demand and trying to pump every time he takes a bottle. He's had 28-29 oz and I've pumped 22-23 oz. The remainder has been frozen EBM. Starting Saturday afternoon I've had DH give him all his bottles except right before he goes to sleep.

The one exception to feeding on demand is that I've been feeding him at bedtime and naptime to help him wind down (when he used to comfort nurse). This has usually worked but not always, and sometimes it's taken as much as 6 oz to get him relaxed, which is a lot of milk. Also it breaks the "no bottles from mom" rule, which makes me a little uncomfortable. I want to tell him that, if he wants milk and cuddles before bed, he needs to nurse!

I started taking fenugreek, 1500 mg 3x a day. First dose was Saturday afternoon. I don't smell yet

And here's what I'm planning going forward:

I'm going to keep pumping as often as I can (it's going to be more difficult now during the week -- I may have to go 3-4 hours in the evening after I pick up LO, which isn't ideal) and taking the fenugreek at least until a couple days after I notice the smell -- and if I don't notice it by tomorrow, I'll add a fourth pill per day. However, the LC warned me that it's hard to increase supply at this age, so I'd like to be realistic about that.

I'm going to try to encourage LO to reduce his milk intake. The LC said that around 16 oz is normal at his age (she was very impressed that I am pumping as much as I am, which felt good because I have certainly worked hard at it!). So we have something to work toward from 28+. I'm going to offer a lot more solids, and offer them first (rather than milk) if he shows hunger signs, and try to work in calorie-rich ones like yogurt and avocado in addition to just fruit and veggie purees, puffs, and teething biscuits. I'll also encourage him to drink plenty of water with his solids (he loves water but we've been worried about letting him have too much!). Of course, he can have milk, if he wants it. But we've been offering milk first usually so far and this seems like a good time to change that.

I'll continue the skin to skin time and offering to nurse when it seems most likely to succeed, but not forcing it.

We will stop using bottles and offer EBM in a cup. I will ask daycare to make this change too.

Finally -- this is the toughest one -- we will work on not feeding to sleep, and ultimately on night weaning. This would make our lives a lot less stressful because sleep and milk wouldn't be so dependent on one another now that milk is in short supply, and both DH and I wouldn't have to be up in the middle of the night (for me to calm LO while DH warms a bottle, or for DH to calm LO while I pump a bottle). It's going to be tough because we don't have a good alternative way to soothe LO, but we'll try whatever seems sustainable. I am already putting him down awake, and he can self-settle when he wakes up at night some of the time, so he's already partway there, even though he still clearly has the association. (I've already tried a pacifier a few times and he hasn't taken it, so it really is feeding to sleep, not just sucking.)

That's it for now...I'll come back and update!

I know it's up to him now whether he wants to nurse again, but I just want to feel like I gave it my best effort, since it has been such a wonderful thing and I was really hoping to continue until at least December (when we will be traveling). The Serenity Prayer is my mantra! It would really mean a lot to me, though, to get him to 12 months on breastmilk...it was my original BF goal and it's within reach even if he never nurses again. I have somewhere around 400-600 oz in the freezer so it just depends on how much I can pump and how much he wants to take. But that means I can defrost about 15 oz/day on average so hopefully it will be enough to get us there.

 

[lysh]

Good luck SE! Nice that you are chronicling everything- could end up being a nice reference for anyone else who is/or will go through this!

 

[MommyJogger]

This must be really difficult for you Seaweed.
Sounds like you're doing everything you can. From what I hear and in my (limited) experience, this age is so busy and there's such a new awareness of the world that this is an age where they do tend to strike and they usually backtrack and say "wait, what am I thinking" and go back to the breast. That combined with teething can make bf really difficult. I'm really happy for you that you're going to reach your original goal no matter what. And I hope you're able to continue to a point that you feel good about stopping. I think every woman deserves to make it to that point, whenever that point might be for her.

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks so much to you both MommyJogger, it is really hard. I really hope you are right that he'll just come back to it. Sometimes it seems like he wants to, but I'm not sure.

I was a little ambitious in all my planning. For one thing, it turns out LO won't take milk from a cup. I didn't think that was a possibility he loves drinking water from a cup, and he loves drinking milk in general, so it seemed like a no brainer, but I guess now he thinks milk comes from bottles!

The sleep stuff also didn't go quite according to plan, but hopefully it was at least a little progress. He didn't have any milk for a long time since he was refusing the cup, and I think we let him stay awake too long too. At that point we decided to backtrack on the cup thing and just focus on sleep (in an attempt to tackle just one thing at a time) and he refused the bottle! He was hungry and overtired and basically in a terrible mood. He eventually took the bottle and more or less fell asleep on it, but I read him one book and sang one lullaby afterward before putting him in bed. So at least there was a little separation between bottle and bed. Like 3 minutes.

I didn't do very well today on my willingness-to-try-nursing-when-offered percentage. Should I offer less tomorrow? I only offered when he literally rubbed his face into my chest (which is what he used to do when he REALLY wanted to nurse), and when he refused I didn't offer again until he asked again. It's pretty counterintuitive not to offer when he does that.

He had a lot of solids today and only 21 oz of milk so far (I think he might wake up soon so the total will probably be higher). I'm probably going to end up around only around 20 though. I wonder if it's because I wasn't around him as much all day today. That would be a big difference from being separated for the day!

 

[Aimee4311]

How long has the strike been? 3 days?

Hopefully he'll go back to the breast soon. Interesting that he refused milk from the cup!

 

[seaweed eater]

Around 3 days -- Fri morning is the last time he nursed and Fri evening is the first time he refused (in between, he was at daycare).

 

[stephie_corin]

Were you planning to wean from bottles at daycare when he turns one anyway? I'm usually for a gentle-gentle approach but I wonder what would happen if you just stopped bottles and his choice was either cup or breast? It might be terribly traumatic but if it's a bottle preference it makes sense to me to remove the bottles. I've got no experience with a strike so this may be a terrible suggestion.

 

[seaweed eater]

Stephie, I'm with you but it seemed like too much for one evening...I couldn't put him to bed hungry AND ask him to go to sleep in a different way from what he's been doing his entire life. So just working on bedtime first was the only way to be more gradual.

I wasn't really in a hurry to get him off bottles I just figured it would be effortless since he enjoys drinking water from cups. Ha! I should have known that almost nothing is effortless. I guess I'm glad we're working on it now! Although if he's not going to be having EBM from bottles for much longer anyway then I guess it might not matter that much -- maybe he'd take cow's milk from a cup the way he takes water.

I am frustrated with the fact that once again when he woke up this morning I was holding him in the rocker and giving him a bottle. I at least ditched the nursing pillow and tried to keep him sitting up instead of letting him lie down. Still, I really want to stop giving him a bottle at night, but I don't know what can be changed until he'll take a cup. Maybe have DH give it to him? Poor DH! (I don't know why I say that though, because both of us are working now and I've been the one getting up at night for 11 months!)

We actually had a great night sleep-wise. He slept over 9 hours so I was very full. And he woke up sleepy and seemed ready to go back to sleep, so it seemed like a good opportunity to offer to nurse. He reacted very strongly. I think I need to take a little break from actively offering the boob...no more until the middle of the night tonight. We'll still do some skin to skin time this morning so it'll be accessible in case he's interested.

I'm off work this morning so I'll have a little more of a chance to try out the cup with him and see what to tell daycare. They said when they start introducing milk in cups they usually try for about 45 minutes and then give the remainder of the milk in a bottle so it doesn't go to waste, unless the parent requests otherwise (in which case they save the remainder to take home -- they can't offer it again after an hour). I was going to tell them cups or nothing, but I think he may not get any milk that way, so I'm not sure.

How long do you think he can go without milk (assuming he has access to solids and water)? The first LC I spoke with over the weekend said 6 hours but I just don't know how he'd survive. Yesterday evening he went nearly 4 hours without any milk and I think it was probably the longest daytime stretch since he was born, and he was soooo grumpy.

Anyway, the other update is that I ended up pumping 21 oz yesterday, exactly enough to replace all the milk he took! But it was actually less than I'd pumped over the weekend. This morning I'm not getting as much as I would have hoped 8 hours since my last pump. Maybe my supply is dropping further. Or maybe it's a pump responsiveness thing? I never seem to get more than 6 at a time and I'm pretty sure my boobs actually hold more than that.

I've actually thought about trying nipple shields. What do you guys think? I've never even seen one. Is he likely to at least try harder with one of those since they're silicone ( )? How is the flow with those things? I'm guessing if he took to those I probably would never be able to nurse without them again, which would be a pain, but I'd rather have him nursing with shields than not at all.

 

[Aimee4311]

I tried a nipple shield once, when Josalyn was in a biting phase to try getting her to nurse on my injured side without pain. She let it touch her mouth once and pushed away and refused to let it near her again. But, if Munchkin has a bottle preference he may just go for it! It's definitely worth the try!

 

[stephie_corin]

Nipple shields are a good idea! Definitely worth a shot!

Regarding how long he can go without milk - I'd say 12 hours on the logic that some babies that age are STTN, provided he's hydrated, offered solids and given lots of opportunities to drink from a cup or nurse? Obviously you wouldn't want that to be a regular occurrence but remember that people night wean as early as 6 months, and those babies aren't getting milk or solids in that period. I could be wrong of course! But I don't think 6 hours is that long to go between feeds. My sister's baby is breastfed 3 times per day (morning, lunch and bed time) and she is a similar age to Munchkin. Other friends of ours dropped to only 2 feeds by 8 months.

Good luck!

Edit - just to be clear I'm not advocating dropping feeds or reducing breast milk, but in the circumstances it might help for a short period.

 

[MommyJogger]

Wow, a nipple shield does sound like a really good idea for your situation. Good thought, Seaweed! The only thing I'd say to watch out for is to make sure you don't let him gnaw on it, just in case you end up going back to nursing without the shield. That would be a painful habit to let him get into. I really hope that works out for you.

 

[AmyS]

I was a little ambitious in all my planning. For one thing, it turns out LO won't take milk from a cup. I didn't think that was a possibility he loves drinking water from a cup, and he loves drinking milk in general, so it seemed like a no brainer, but I guess now he thinks milk comes from bottles!

Chloe is like this too! She makes a face like it tastes bad if I try putting her milk in the cup. I intend to keep trying with her, but I've been forgetting to!

 

[AmyS]

Are you using an electric pump?? I know some people have had good luck using a manual pump after for a few minutes to get out more. Also, a video that I watched at the hospital recommended massaging the breast as you are pumping (electric) to express more milk.

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks everyone! Wow, I'm glad the nipple shield idea is resonating. Will definitely give that a try.

Stephie, you are totally right about the 12 hour thing. That's actually what the advice nurse at our clinic said too. It just sounds super long given that he isn't nursing much at night these days. So in 24 hours it would be very little, KWIM? I think you're right that I'm underestimating him though. He never really dropped feeds before so in my mind he's still sort of a newborn about BF, but obviously his needs have changed.

He is taking milk from a cup this morning! We let him get hungry and he eventually went for it. I also did offer to nurse a couple times (contrary to my earlier intention) and he did turn toward the breast, but once he turned away immediately and once he bit. Oh well, I'll take it!

We have also literally hidden all the bottles and nipples at home. Whenever he sees one, even an empty one, he points at it and cries. So they're hidden now. Hopefully the cup will keep going well and we can just put them all away and not worry about them anymore.

I'm curious to know how it will go at daycare this afternoon. I could see it going very well or very poorly. DH pointed out that in the past they've always been a lot more effective than we have at changing his eating habits (taking bottles, eating purees), so maybe that will be the case again.

Amy, I've heard the same thing about manual expression but haven't tried that, but I should! It's hard to think of adding yet another time-consuming element but I wonder whether it would make a difference. I actually would probably just do it by hand myself. I have a manual pump but it's never been nearly as effective for me as the electric one. I do tend to do compressions whenever I remember, and that definitely helps a lot.

I forgot to mention this morning that I bought some flaxseed to add to my oatmeal, and some mother's milk tea. The LC I spoke to yesterday was very skeptical of herbal supply boosters but I guess it's worth a try. I also haven't noticed the fenugreek smell yet so I'm going to increase that to 1500x4.

 

[polaris]

I don't have time to post a proper reply but just wanted to say that I really hope you manage to get him back nursing again. But if not, it's great that you have enough EBM to hopefully get to 12 months anyway.

Regarding how long he can go without milk - I agree with the others that 6 hours should be fine. Thomas actually dropped to two feeds (plus a night feed) at Munchkin's age because I went back to work and he refused milk in any form while I was in work. So he was having a feed at about 7 a.m. and then not feeding again until about 6.30 p.m. He wouldn't drink EBM from a bottle or a cup and he refused cows milk until a few months after he completely weaned. They can be so stubborn once they set their little minds on something.

I really do feel for you, it's a rotten situation.

 

[seaweed eater]

Today was busy and I'm so tired. But it was a good day!

Offered to nurse a couple more times and he bit me each time. I can't tell whether that's a forward step or a backward step!

Bought a nipple shield. Will sterilize and try.

I pumped only 6x today and will end up around 21.5 oz. I want to figure out whether it's bad for my supply at this point to pump less often if I'm removing the same amount of milk...two LCs have suggested that as long as I'm not going longer than about 4 hours it might not make a difference. It would be nice if I could go 3-4 hours regularly.

LO took...wait for it...16 oz!!! I couldn't believe it was that much when I tallied it up; it felt like nothing. I stupidly thawed 5 oz too much from the freezer that I'll have to throw out, but I have enough extra from today to replace it!

He had only one bottle, in the evening because bedtime was approaching and I didn't want him to go to bed hungry (and in my head he'd had about 5 oz all day). Other than that it was all from the cup. Plenty of solids, too. Not a lot of water, so I hope he is well hydrated, but I'm going to trust him to regulate that unless I see evidence that he's not.

Our daycare teacher said something that made me really excited. He took an unusually long nap today (90 minutes) and she said, "It's the first time he hasn't actually fallen asleep while feeding. He finished drinking from the cup while he was awake and then went right to sleep." It would be awesome if getting rid of bottles helped him nap longer too!

I wish bedtime had been that easy, but unfortunately it was horrible. But for probably the first time in his life, Munchkin went to sleep with no nipple anywhere in the bedtime routine, so at least that's behind us. Hoping things get better now. I have a cup ready for when he wakes up during the night, and I'm pretty apprehensive about how he will react.

It's way past MY bedtime! Good night! Thanks to all of you for your support