16 year old caught thieving.

[LaughOutLoud]

Honestly, you should get advice from a professional counselor. Understanding how teens think and act and how to respond to them is seriously complex. People whose kids are 3, 4, 5 years old simply have no idea what it is going to be like to parent a teenager. It is a delicate age, all the more so because you only have a few years left to parent them. It's terrifyingly high stakes. I really feel for you.

IMO none of the money should be repaid by you as a "gift" to her. Therefore how you treat her at Christmas is unrelated. I'd remind her that she has the option to return or sell her gifts. Personally, I think all the money should be repaid by her in cash, not chores, but you know the situation best and it may not be possible for her to earn cash. I understand that it is probably necessary for you to pay her boss back right away so technically she is paying you back, but I would really try to work out a way for as much of the money as possible to go directly from her to her boss.

Leaving her out at Christmas sends the message "You have messed up so badly we are no longer treating you the way we treat the rest of our children." Is that a productive message to send her? I think you run the risk of her giving up on herself and making "being a bad person" part of her self-image. I've been a mentor for homeless teens, you do not want her to give up on herself. You want her to understand that she is better than how she acted and empower her amend for her mistakes. And yes, it was a mistake-- a serious mistake with life altering consequences, just like using drugs, having unprotected sex, getting into a car with a drunk driver and a dozen other serious mistakes teenagers make everyday because they lack the neurological maturity to understand the gravity of their decisions.

I really urge you to get some outside support from someone with professional expertise working with teens. This is such a difficult situation, you owe it to yourselves to get some help with how to deal with it.

I might not have a teenage girl, but I remember being one and for sure, I would not have expected to receive any gifts if I had done the same. There are ways to remind that child that you still love her without giving a gift at Christmas. I do agree that counselling might be a good idea for the girl as I do wonder what led her to do it.

Ditto

 

[Beckettshades]

I also agree with that- my parents wrote me off as a teen. You do not want her to feel like that x

 

[lindseymw]

Honestly, you should get advice from a professional counselor. Understanding how teens think and act and how to respond to them is seriously complex. People whose kids are 3, 4, 5 years old simply have no idea what it is going to be like to parent a teenager. It is a delicate age, all the more so because you only have a few years left to parent them. It's terrifyingly high stakes. I really feel for you.

IMO none of the money should be repaid by you as a "gift" to her. Therefore how you treat her at Christmas is unrelated. I'd remind her that she has the option to return or sell her gifts. Personally, I think all the money should be repaid by her in cash, not chores, but you know the situation best and it may not be possible for her to earn cash. I understand that it is probably necessary for you to pay her boss back right away so technically she is paying you back, but I would really try to work out a way for as much of the money as possible to go directly from her to her boss.

Leaving her out at Christmas sends the message "You have messed up so badly we are no longer treating you the way we treat the rest of our children." Is that a productive message to send her? I think you run the risk of her giving up on herself and making "being a bad person" part of her self-image. I've been a mentor for homeless teens, you do not want her to give up on herself. You want her to understand that she is better than how she acted and empower her amend for her mistakes. And yes, it was a mistake-- a serious mistake with life altering consequences, just like using drugs, having unprotected sex, getting into a car with a drunk driver and a dozen other serious mistakes teenagers make everyday because they lack the neurological maturity to understand the gravity of their decisions.

I really urge you to get some outside support from someone with professional expertise working with teens. This is such a difficult situation, you owe it to yourselves to get some help with how to deal with it.

I might not have a teenage girl, but I remember being one and for sure, I would not have expected to receive any gifts if I had done the same. There are ways to remind that child that you still love her without giving a gift at Christmas. I do agree that counselling might be a good idea for the girl as I do wonder what led her to do it.

I agree with Foogirl. Of course I don't have a teenager myself at the moment, but I was one myself. My parents would have hit the roof and certainly wouldn't be buying me Xmas/Birthday presents.

At 16 years old, they *should* be mature enough to understand the principle of wrong and right and realise there is consquences of doing wrong. We are not talking about pocketing $10 or nicking some chocolate bars (the latter I did do once at 10 years old, my parents found out and made me return to the shop and hand it over, I haven't nicked anything since!). We are talking $2200 over 6 months, that's a heck of a lot of money!

I also agree about looking at Counselling or something to help understand why.

 

[Eternal]

I agree to the Counselling but I still don't think i would be buying her anything for Christmas, love isn't bought, giving her things or not doesn't not indicate love, love isn't something that can be bought. Yes she will be treated different but then they other children didn't screw up like that, I personally wouldn't call it a mistake, it was over a period of those and a hell of a lot of money, it wasn't a one time not thought out action.

As for teenagers and the other mistakes mentioned such as drunk driving,mine night stands etc, they all have consequences, some are avoided, but what happens to that child that kills a young family in their car? Do we say, it's ok, it was just a mistake, forget about it? No there are consequences, jail time, guilt, etc, this is the same although hugely less server, she also has consequences though, and if they are not realised she could do it again.

That doesn't mean we don't live a children, we hate what they did but we love them and we support and guide them, we can condemn the action and not the person and I'm sure there are parents who do give up on their kids, but this is clearly not one of those cases, she is clearly loved and cared for, she is clearly very loved, I don't think that would be a problem.

 

[Foogirl]

I also agree with that- my parents wrote me off as a teen. You do not want her to feel like that x

Not buying a gift at Christmas isn't exactly writing a teenager off.....

 

[Tryinfor4th]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful insite, a lot of valid points,
As you can imagine its been a difficult week, I still wake up in the mornings thinking did this really happen,
Counciling is the way forward, although expensive, average $250 per hr no free counciling in Canada, as a sahm with one income we can't really afford it,
Her name is down for subsidized counciling but it can take up to 6 months, she's on the list so that's a start,
I am scared of the repercussions of handling this in the wrong way,

I agree that this wasn't a "mistake" it happened time and time again, I also agree that not giving her any gifts this Christmas does not mean I'm "writing her off" but its how she will see it thats key, i believe she will see it as being written off and possibly an excuse to spiral, thats teenage thinking.

I must get this right, to help my daughter and make this the first and last time she does something like this, I can't let this be the crossroads in her life that ends badly because I handled it wrong, not having Immanent professional help makes this more difficult,

She has abandonment issues with her biological father and does struggle with this, I don't want her to feel I've written her off too but at the same time she has no know the seriousness of what she's done, it's such a fine balance.
Her employer and I have agreed that its important SHE pays back the money not the parents, he's prepared to wait for the cash , and in the meantime she's volunteering at the soup kitchen and helping out at her ex employers church, she just got another job, thankfully in a call centre with NO cash handling,

As for her phone,I need to keep in touch with her when she's at school, she has a habit of being late home and does take advantage when I've confiscated her phone in the past, so she only has it during school, as soon as she gets home I take it until 8 the following morning and she doesn't get it at weekends, I make it clear the phone is for my benefit not hers, again I have to do what makes me comfortable too, I'd be too stressed loosing that connection, (yes unbelievably I'm a bit of a helicopter mum, yet didn't see this coming).

What was she buying with the cash, this has come up on here, across the road from her school are fast food outlets, I believe she was paying for friends lunches too, take out is more expensive over here , example $8 for a Big Mac meal, large pizza/ drinks around $26 so I can see where it's gone especially if she's treating others, she spent $80 in mcdonalds to celebrate her first paycheck on her friends lunches, i wasn't happy about it,
Also she'd recently started a new school and met a new group of new friends who's parents are quite well off, entitled and materialistic in every way, no sense of friendship they were always asking for her to chip in $20 here and there for activities, I think she wanted to be excepted into the "plastics" and sold her soul for it.

She's since realized there not good friends at all and distanced herself
I can't believe I'm talking about my first born in this way, nothing's ever gone missing from our home, we leave cash around all the time, although I did tell her the trust was gone and I'll be more vigilent,

Thank you all again, there's no book to reference when we become parents, not a realistic one anyway, your opinions are much needed and its great we as a family can remain anon but still get the benefit of your insite, this is a situation for the first time as a mum no decision feels 100% right, so I'm trying to do what I can live with.

Christmas this year is ruined, I cannot bring myself to buy her expensive gifts, it will just make me more angry, instead I'm going to wrap some of her favourite things, cadburys chocolate from home, creams bath stuff, buy her things she "needs" not "wants" that way I'll feel better Xmas morning, and she's been included, for me as much for her.

 

[Beckettshades]

I also agree with that- my parents wrote me off as a teen. You do not want her to feel like that x

Not buying a gift at Christmas isn't exactly writing a teenager off.....

I didn't mean to imply it did- and sorry if it read that way. What I meant was that 16 year olds aren't the most rational creatures on give planet- and that feeling excluded, may (not will- may) be the first step to her daughter pulling further away. Saying that op has come to a conclusion and I think it's a pretty good one x

 

[Foogirl]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful insite, a lot of valid points,
As you can imagine its been a difficult week, I still wake up in the mornings thinking did this really happen,
Counciling is the way forward, although expensive, average $250 per hr no free counciling in Canada, as a sahm with one income we can't really afford it,
Her name is down for subsidized counciling but it can take up to 6 months, she's on the list so that's a start,
I am scared of the repercussions of handling this in the wrong way,

I agree that this wasn't a "mistake" it happened time and time again, I also agree that not giving her any gifts this Christmas does not mean I'm "writing her off" but its how she will see it thats key, i believe she will see it as being written off and possibly an excuse to spiral, thats teenage thinking.

She will see it as you explain it to her. It sounds like you've got to the bottom of a lot of it, perhaps counselling isn't all that important after all. I can see a situation as you describe it, trying to impress friends rather than spending it on herself. The thing is, although it is a huge amount of money, over a period of 6 months its possible she had no idea how it had mounted up. $10 0r $20 every shift or two over 6 months might not have seemed like a big deal. And having got away with it once, it could become a habit almost. I'm sure she was quite shocked at the total amount.

If you want to make sure your daughter understands what you are doing, the best way is just to keep talking with her. Not AT her or TO her but with her. Ask her what she thinks her punishment should be, ask her how she thinks she can make amends. Tell her you are shocked that she has done what she has done but that you want to support her in her efforts to make amends to those she has wronged. Its all about communication, which is really all counselling is.

I would also say, I really don't think that how you deal with this could result in her "going off the rails" If she is going to do that, there are bigger issues at play rather than this one off. In my experience children tend to go off the rails despite their parents efforts, not because of them. At 16 she is able to make her own decisions and if she is making the wrong ones it's unlikely to be anything you've done that led her there.

 

[Eternal]

Tryingfora4th - HUGS you doing amazing as a mum and don't feel that has anything to do with you, we all make wrong choices and they and our choices not because of x y z etc

Glad she has a new job and that her ex employer sounds understanding, you are doing a great job, she screwed up, there are huge consequences, but to won't last forever!

 

[JASMAK]

Don't pay it?!! Let me tell you something. I used to work with criminals, now I work with people who do minor crimes....we have parents pay their 40 year old children's fines! Ridiculous! They are usually repeat offenders! Make her earn, sell her stuff and give back every single cent herself.

Presents, yes. Christmas is about giving to those we love. You are angry, for sure. But you have to forgive. Holding anger wont be productive for her, or you.

 

[Larkspur]

Don't pay it?!! Let me tell you something. I used to work with criminals, now I work with people who do minor crimes....we have parents pay their 40 year old children's fines! Ridiculous! They are usually repeat offenders! Make her earn, sell her stuff and give back every single cent herself.

Presents, yes. Christmas is about giving to those we love. You are angry, for sure. But you have to forgive. Holding anger wont be productive for her, or you.

Fully agree with this. A PP said, "She will understand it the way you explain it"... if only that were true! From my own memory of being a teenager, parents can explain something till they're blue in the face and kids still have to learn it through experience.

I believe in the consequences being appropriate to the action. In this case, that would be the parents not propping her up by paying off part of the debt as a 'gift' (and doubling it up as a punishment by making Christmas miserable for her), but making her pay back all of what she stole. It would also be about talking her to to the point where she can understand and explain why she did what she did (which, OP, you seem to have done very well) and fixing the source of that problem (moving away from a bad crowd).

I don't think turning an unrelated occasion a month down the track into a reminder (and humiliation in front of the family) that her parents are angry at her would be a helpful lesson. She will be reminded - appropriately - that her actions have consequences every time she works an hour for free, for months to come.

 

[Andypanda6570]

I am sorry, I don't mean to sound rude but WTF Are u kidding me? Buying something after what she did? We all make mistakes , but as parents we must teach them that they need to be held accountable for their actions. Not only would my kid be paying it back, she would be lucky to see the light of day.. Sorry, I am just confused on how worrying about presents is even a concern/ Sorry like I said I don't mean to sound harsh

 

[Foogirl]

That was pretty much my first reaction too!

 

[xprincessx]

If I had stolen even £5 at that age I would have been disowned. My family are extremely against stealing, in our house it's the worst thing you can do! No way on this earth would I have received any christmas presents for stealing any amount of money let alone that amount! I also wouldn't have received any help in getting a new job or paying back the money I stole.

In saying that I don't know how I'd handle the situation if it happened to me when my son is 16 but I do know 100% I would not be buying him christmas presents that year, he would need to learn that his actions have consequences and it's non negotiable.

This is not the same as a 12 year old taking a few quid from mum's purse every few days to get sweets, that's a serious amount of money and she is extremely lucky she didn't get sent to jail and personally, I would make sure she knows how lucky she is!

 

[MrsLMC]

Personally I would talk to her and ask her whether she thinks she should be getting a present. Be honest say you're not sure what to do and you would never want her to think you don't love her.

If she says yes get her a few token presents, if she says no ... I'd still get some token presents but leave it as a surprise.

As a teenager I think I would have said don't get me a present. I would have been miserable on the day but I wouldn't have even considered stealing a chip after that.

 

[lhancock90]

Personally I would talk to her and ask her whether she thinks she should be getting a present. Be honest say you're not sure what to do and you would never want her to think you don't love her.

If she says yes get her a few token presents, if she says no ... I'd still get some token presents but leave it as a surprise.

As a teenager I think I would have said don't get me a present. I would have been miserable on the day but I wouldn't have even considered stealing a chip after that.

This is an interesting idea.
Lay it all out to her, that you love and adore her but that she's done something very very wrong and she needs to face some consequences.

Xx

 

[susannah14]

Presents do not = love.

I can't say it better than Aliss did so I won't even try. But you can let her know you still love her without giving her presents. IMO, giving her presents after she has stolen (not a mistake, not an accident) a huge amount of money sends the message that there are no consequences to her actions.

I think if I were to give her a token present, though, it'd be coal.

(Half joking there)...

 

[tasha41]

I think it's a hard lesson to learn for her but I would keep the money that I would have spent on her gifts (if they aren't purchased yet or able to be returned) and use that towards repayment. That's a signficant amount of money that you have to come up with.

I would be making her brainstorm ways to come up with the money. Can she sell anything she doesn't use, do babysitting jobs, shovel snow for money (it's coming down here, not sure where you are lol!)..

I generally believe that most parents need to be a bit tougher on their teens than they are- but that's because I have a 21 year old sister who is wandering aimlessly through life, doesn't work a legitimate job or go to school, is very difficult to get along with, steals from family and friends, has no respect for others (ie has turned up at my house at 4am drunk, more than once, even just last week). It's easy for things to snowball and get out of control.

ETA I work part time and it takes me about 3 months to earn $2200 (my schedule/number of hours would be 'manageable' for a student or just a bit more than a high school student could handle)

 

[suzib76]

christmas is unconditional in our house, always has been. there is never any 'santa wont come if you are naughty' nonsense, because YES he will come, to toddler and teenage alike

i could never exclude any of my kids from something quite so family orientated

she made a huge mistake, and as such should be punished, but i wouldnt have it affect her, my or the rest of the family's christmas, it would be hanging over the day like a dark cloud