20 Kids and counting

[BrandiCanucks]

By now, we all know the news of the Duggar family expecting number 20 (and likely to have a J name). This family is a controversial one. People either love them, or they hate them. There doesn't seem to be an in between with them. Most people will say "They're a great family. They respect each other and their system works", where others do not agree with their children raising their children.

At what point does "helping out" become "raising children", and at what point should families (not the Duggars, per se, but families in general) stop having children?

 

[Eternal]

wow 20! crazy!

I can never figure out how they pay for them? thats one of my biggest issues, are they supporting them all themselves? if yes then i have less of an issue.

So the children feel put on and under pressure to raise their siblings? some its just part of being a big family and they enjoy it where as others may resent it, if the kids are happy then i see no issue.

generally i think if people can look after their own kids financially, emotionally, phyically etc then i see no issue, they wont have much one to one time but then they are spread out (dont the older ones now have their own families?), so perhaps they do.

we are considering having another after the twins and im sure people will think thats too many, it will be 4, but i see no issue, we claim no benefits, i stay at home and the kids have everything they need.

 

[patch2006uk]

I think it's less acceptable these days to have more than 3/4 children, but go back a generation or two and having loads of children was much more the norm (my grandad is one of 13) I agree that if they are supporting them all themselves, then it's no-one else's business.

Stop having children when you can't afford them.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

Apparently Jim Bob is a realtor, and rents out other properties and the buy everything second hand. The house they built also has a room designated as a "church" so that they do not have to pay property tax. (Maybe we should all do this? lol)

They hand their younger kids off to their older kids to raise after a certain age. The older kids do all the chores with the younger kids, feed them,cook for them, teach them their schoolwork, etc. It's as if they practically RAISE the younger kids, but the parents call it "Helping Buddies". The Duggars, by their own admission, begin weaning at 6 months old to try to conceive again, and at the same time claim to leave the decision up to God on how many kids they have.

Only one Duggar kid has two children.

I do feel sorry for the older kids. It's as if they are robbed of their childhood at a certain age so they can become Mommy or Daddy Jr. to a younger sibling. I don't agree with becoming Mommy or Daddy at the age of 11 or 12. I sometimes wonder how many kids called their sibling Mommy or Daddy before they called Michelle or Jim Bob mom or dad.

 

[Yammas]

I'd assume that the money they make from endoresments, publicity and all those types of things are how they make their money.

Personally I dont have much of an opinion on them I remember watching thier show ages ago when there was only 18 lol I think shes extremely lucky and brave to have all of those children.

ETA - I dont think the older children should be raising their younger siblings if they wanted them then they should take care of them not palm them off on another child, its not fair on either of them and how do they ensure that they are being taught correctly anyway?

 

[BrandiCanucks]

And see, in my personal opinion, I go beyond "when you can't afford them". I say when you are unable to care for your child yourself and must depend on someone else to look after them, then don't have anymore. It's not fair to the parents, the existing children, or the children to come.

My oldest child is medically fragile and has special needs, but we had two typical children after her.

In my opinion, there is a line between kids helping out and kids raising kids.

Anyone is allowed to have children, unfortunately, in some cases. But myself, like a lot of other people, have the opinion that if YOU, as the parents, need to depend on someone else (your older children) to raise your children (or you can't afford to raise them), then you ought to think of the futures of your other kids and yourselves, and stop having children.

That's just an opinion though. It's neither right, nor wrong.

I do believe there is a fine line between children helping out around the house, and what families like the Duggars do, raising their brothers and sisters. (Of course, the media only shows what they want you to see too).

Anyway, I, personally, agree that children having chores is not just beneficial, but essential to their development. My kids stand on a chair and put dishes in the dish rack after they've been rinsed, they clean their own toys, and like to "help" sweep the floor. That's great, they're helping, but they're not doing the majority of the work. We still are, and as they get older, they will have more responsibility. That being said, however, I won't turn around and teach Isaiah to dress Zoe, change her diapers, administer ativan, drive a car, take Zoe to therapy, sit with her in the hospital during her admissions and surgery, teach her the ABC's and how to count. I won't teach him to do her laundry and how to properly stain treat her clothes. I won't teach him to feed her when she needs assistance. I won't teach him to care for Zoe because Zoe is MY CHILD. She is MY RESPONSIBILITY. She is Isaiah's SISTER, not his responsibility. If I couldn't take on MY RESPONSIBILITY of raising Zoe, then I would not have had her. If Isaiah decides when he is an adult and I can no longer care for Zoe that he WANTS to take on the responsibility of caring for her, GREAT! I will let that be his decision, but I would NEVER force my children to raise my children.

 

[patch2006uk]

And see, in my personal opinion, I go beyond "when you can't afford them". I say when you are unable to care for your child yourself and must depend on someone else to look after them, then don't have anymore. It's not fair to the parents, the existing children, or the children to come.

In my opinion, there is a line between kids helping out and kids raising kids.

I'd agree with this. Although, again, go back a generation or two and you get children out of school at 14 and off to work. Children now are allowed to be children for much much longer than their recent ancestors. Is that a good thing?

 

[Yammas]

I'd say it is a good thing as we live longer now so why shouldnt they get to be a child for longer.

I do think that anymore than 20 would be a bit overkill although im pretty sure that they are close to the world record so they might try to have more after. Personally reading what they went through with their last child i think i wouldve stopped there as they may have even more complications.

ETA - ooops maybe not the record is 69 children to a single couple aparently :O

 

[BrandiCanucks]

It depends on whether it was their decision or not and what they are doing with their lives. If they are dropping out, having sex and doing drugs or getting into legal trouble, then absolutely not. It is not better. But today's society is one that wants credentials before they hire. If a 14 year old is staying in school until they're 25, achieving good grades, staying out of trouble and leading a good, healthy lifestyle and contributing to society, I see no issue with allowing them that freedom.

 

[patch2006uk]

I'd say it is a good thing as we live longer now so why shouldnt they get to be a child for longer.

I do think that anymore than 20 would be a bit overkill although im pretty sure that they are close to the world record so they might try to have more after. Personally reading what they went through with their last child i think i wouldve stopped there as they may have even more complications.

But these 18 and 19 year old children have no sense of responsibility, and they think the world should look after them.

I wouldn't have anything like 20 children, and I don't think it's really that defensible a position to be in. However, people have grown up in worse situations and turned out ok

 

[sarahh]

Wow can't believe they are having another one but each to their own. They are going to run out of J names though before long.

 

[Yammas]

Lol true Im surprised they could think of 19!!! and they stay in school till 18 now so they can do more work placements so they learn responsibility and gain experience.

But shouldnt parents teach their children responsibilty as well?

 

[britishsaffy]

Are they going to afford each child the ability to go to college? That will cost a lot of money and you really can't give preferential treatment to the older ones and tell the youngest "sorry, I spent all my money on the others"..
I think they're taking this too far, 20 children is a lot, even if you go back a few decades.

 

[deafgal]

they are christians (and homeschooled) most of them think college is too liberal for them. More likely they will have charity and scholarships from other church members if they want to go to bible college and work for a church or christian school. I grew up their type of fundamental (baptist) church.

 

[Yammas]

I had a look on their website and they were promoting some home learning thing as a alternative to college

 

[britishsaffy]

Each to their own and all, but I don't think their home schooling would look as good on their children's future resumes as a college degree from a recognized institution.

 

[impatient1]

I believe if they can raise them to be happy and be productive members of society good on them. Having 20 children is not something I am or will ever be ready to tackle but they seem to be doing well. I was impressed last night when there was a commercial about them all going to Scotland, that's more then I can do for B right now but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have had her.

What is the difference between having a nanny or a caregiver to what they are doing? I helped my mom look after my grandmother when she was ill if my mom was busy and couldn't help her go to the bathroom, feed her, wipe the drool off her chin, etc. I also took over for my mom babysitting the children she minded when she had to go and work her second job. I think that if anything it made me be more responsible and know that nothing comes free. I have always been told that I was very mature and responsible for my age but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy my childhood (although I didn't have the best upbringing due to my father's abuse, but that's something completely different). At 10 years old I stayed with my cousin on the weekends and during the summer I stayed with her during the week to help her with her 3 children under 2, I loved changing diapers and helping her out, it was a highlight for me, and yep I even offered to change dirty diapers.

I also think them having a "church" in there home has more to do with their beliefs and how they practice them then the tax right off. We could also argue with the fact that many famous people who have millions of dollars also have religious sanctuaries on their property as well.

On the college outlook a friend of mine's parents set it up so that they paid for the 1st child's education and then the 1st child paid for the next and so on and so forth with the last child paying back the parent. I will help out with B's education and save as much as I can for her but there are also other revenues for her to seek out as well such as bursaries, scholarships, having a part time job, etc. I want her to appreciate her schooling and I think that if she is helping with it she will appreciate it more than if it is just given to her.

 

[deafgal]

Even though it sounds good, I don't think that setup would work. they are more likely have their kids to worry about or don't make enough money especially if they picked a low paying profession. even though some of us went to college and even have 4 years degree, our parents didn't put a dime in any of our college. Most of us worked through college. My sister still paying debts though.My other sister got scholarship (christian) and grants (in her first two years of college, low income)

 

[Eternal]

i dont like how this buddie system works, i dont agree that sibling should have to actually raise their siblings, i do agree with older children taking and learning responsibility though, so chores etc i think are acceptable but actual childcare im not so found of.

They have verys strong religious belief's which make them quite "odd" to outsiders, i dont really agree with some of their teachings, as someone that many would look at and say i have strong religious convictions, i would agree with, but they seem very extreme. As for God deciding, ive heard people say that loads, i do believe god has a plan for us, but we also have agency to decide our own course, if you keep having unprotected sex you will keep getting pregnancy unless you have fertility issues or hit the menopause, she must be close to that by now surely?

 

[BrandiCanucks]

What is the difference between having a nanny or a caregiver to what they are doing? I helped my mom look after my grandmother when she was ill if my mom was busy and couldn't help her go to the bathroom, feed her, wipe the drool off her chin, etc. I also took over for my mom babysitting the children she minded when she had to go and work her second job. I think that if anything it made me be more responsible and know that nothing comes free. I have always been told that I was very mature and responsible for my age but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy my childhood (although I didn't have the best upbringing due to my father's abuse, but that's something completely different). At 10 years old I stayed with my cousin on the weekends and during the summer I stayed with her during the week to help her with her 3 children under 2, I loved changing diapers and helping her out, it was a highlight for me, and yep I even offered to change dirty diapers.

But were you expected to care for your grandmother or your cousin, or did you have the choice? These kids are 12 and 13 years old and don't have the choice on whether they want to "raise" their siblings or not. Their parents pass off the youngest to a sibling so they can have another child.


Eternal - That brings me to my next point. God also said we have free will. Another thing that bothers me about the Duggars is they say they leave how many kids they have up to God, yet in the media feel the need to "defend their choice." So, whose choice is it really? Their choice, or God's choice? It surely can't be both.