AAaaaaargh! Is it immoral to eat meat and fish and do we care?

[redpoppy]

Okay, so I try not to think about this AT ALL! And that's not very like me. I don't mean in a "poor little creatures" way, I mean in a "what we're doing to the earth and how will we sustain it" way.

If I'm honest I'm being very blinkered about this as I LOOOOOOOOVE fish, and chicken, and kebabs and well, lets just say I don't think a meal is complete without some type of creature flesh.

But is it something I need to really think about and at least limit or choose my meat/fish carefully so as not to add to the impending doom or is there no need to worry and what do you think? Is there anyone who just thinks "sod it! Might as well enjoy it while it lasts" or are there many like me who have their fingers in their ears and eyes closed singing "la la la la la" until is all goes away? I know I shouldn't. But are their any options other than vegetarianism. I don't really know much about it but I think thats because I'm scared of what I'll find.

 

[tallybee]

Well... there are a lot of options other than vegetarianism. We do eat meat in our house, just not all the time Eating organic or sustainably sourced meat/fish for instance. Yes it's more expensive, but we don't NEED it every day... it's possible to have it as more of a treat than a staple. Factory farming is disgusting really, when you read anything about it...

I'm also doing a bit on fisheries for my Uni course at the mo and yeah... the state of the world's fish stocks is pretty fecked TBH... There are sustainable options though. Google 'hugh's fish fight' and you'll find Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's campaign for sustainable fish. He's also big on the ethically sourced meat. Probably a good place to start if you'd like to research these things

 

[Lightworker]

I dont think it is immoral - some things do not need to be rationalized so much and should be atributed to the laws of nature. To me its like asking a lion, is it immoral for you to chase that gazelle? Thats just my take on the issue of morality.

 

[redpoppy]

I dont think it is immoral - some things do not need to be rationalized so much and should be atributed to the laws of nature. To me its like asking a lion, is it immoral for you to chase that gazelle? Thats just my take on the issue of morality.

I meant the issues surrounding eating meat not the actual eating meat itself. If lions started to round up and breed gazelles and consume them at an unnatural rate which in turn affected the environment and the future for later generations and all of the earth then it would be immoral no? I have no issues of eating meat as part of the food chain but I do think we need to be aware of throwing the world out of balance.

And I am putting my head in the sand but even still I'm pretty sure we as the human race are completely f*cking up the oceans and life in them. But I suppose I've always been hoping that it will all sort itself out.

 

[Lightworker]

Doh! My bad. Well in some parts of Africa, your diet is a reflection of the area you live in eg if you live by the sea, then seafood comprises a huge part or if you live inland, then beef makes up a huge part. Obviously with some more developed communities, people want to eat everything regardless of where it is found and I think this contributes to the strain. Perhaps if we adopted a way of eating only what is in our immediate habitat it would help. I havent even thought it through properly lol

 

[tallybee]

I dont think it is immoral - some things do not need to be rationalized so much and should be atributed to the laws of nature. To me its like asking a lion, is it immoral for you to chase that gazelle? Thats just my take on the issue of morality.

I meant the issues surrounding eating meat not the actual eating meat itself. If lions started to round up and breed gazelles and consume them at an unnatural rate which in turn affected the environment and the future for later generations and all of the earth then it would be immoral no? I have no issues of eating meat as part of the food chain but I do think we need to be aware of throwing the world out of balance.

And I am putting my head in the sand but even still I'm pretty sure we as the human race are completely f*cking up the oceans and life in them. But I suppose I've always been hoping that it will all sort itself out.

You're not wrong about the oceans. Some of the stuff I am learning at Uni is shocking.

Totally agree with you about the laws of nature thing too. There is absolutely nothing natural at all about the way us humans source our meat.

 

[tallybee]

Doh! My bad. Well in some parts of Africa, your diet is a reflection of the area you live in eg if you live by the sea, then seafood comprises a huge part or if you live inland, then beef makes up a huge part. Obviously with some more developed communities, people want to eat everything regardless of where it is found and I think this contributes to the strain. Perhaps if we adopted a way of eating only what is in our immediate habitat it would help. I havent even thought it through properly lol

It would be wonderful wouldn't it... but the truth is the most populated parts of the world can no way be self sufficient in food because of space issues and other things. It's far more expensive financially to eat sustainably and locally and many can't afford the choice.
It's screwy.

 

[redpoppy]

From the response i guess people don't care. I wonder why...

 

[flubdub]

Of course it is immoral. I have been vegetarian since I was 9, for purely animal cruelty reasons, but I understand that that is not the debate here, so I will try to leave those feelings out of it.

The fact is, there is no evidence WHATSOEVER that eating meat is GOOD for the planet.

A typical diet requires up to 2.5 times the amount of land compared to a vegetarian diet and 5 times that of a vegan diet. A farmer can feed up to 30 people throughout the year with vegetables, fruits, cereals and vegetable fats on one hectare of land. If the same area is used for the production of eggs, milk and/or meat the number of people fed varies from 5-108. The amount of agricultural land used worldwide has increased by over 10%, from 4.49 billion acres to 4.96 between 1965 and 200528.

Switching to a plant-based protein diet could free up to 2,700 million hectares of pasture and 100Mha of cropland whereby the re-growing vegetation would use a large uptake of carbon in the process.


Thirty percent of the earth’s entire land surface – a massive 70% of all agricultural land - is used for rearing farmed animals. Much of this is grazing land that would otherwise host a natural habitat such as the valuable rainforest, but crops are also grown specifically as animal feed. In fact, a third of the world’s land suitable for growing crops is used to produce feed for farmed animals.

Between 2000 and 2005, 90 million acres of forest were destroyed and the World Resource Institute estimates that 39% of the world’s remaining frontier forest is at risk. Today’s main threats include clearing land for agriculture and overgrazing

Going vegetarian will halve the land-use of your diet. Livestock production is responsible for 70% of the Amazon deforestation in Latin America, where the rainforest has been cleared to create new pastures. Deforestation increases greenhouse gas emissions by releasing carbon previously stored in the trees.

I think this says it all;
Livestock production is responsible for 70% of the Amazon deforestation in Latin America.

 

[Eve]

Wow Flubdub, that is amazingly scary! and makes me really think about it.
I do love meat, grew up eating it, but I do not like how it all happens. I do feel as though we are way too into it, so to speak. All the burger joints etc... out there! We eat meat and honestly, I do not buy organic or whatever. We have meat with most dinners, to me it's normal and I do not think about it all regularly but you really have made me think today.

 

[AppleBlossom]

No it's not immoral. It's the circle of life. Nobody would shoot a lion for ripping apart a zebra, nor take it into captivity and insist it eat a diet of shoots and leaves. I know a lot of vegetarians. Most of them don't eat meat either because of dietary reasons or because they simply don't like the taste of meat. I just find it silly when people say "But think about the poor animals" No, I need to survive. Meat is full of iron and other things we need. To me, it's just normal to have meat as part of a meal. As far as the planet is concerned, maybe eating so much meat will have no positive effect, but has anyone ever said it would? However I think it is a small percentage when you look at the bigger picture about how we are destroying this planet. There will never ever be a meat free world. But there are so many other things we can stop/start doing besides that.

 

[lesleyann]

i always have meat with a meal, i dont like fish so meh lol but its only over farming which is the problem when the supper markets want 500 packs of pork chops yet only sell 250 and the rest go in the bin same as fish thats the problem

 

[flubdub]

No it's not immoral. It's the circle of life. Nobody would shoot a lion for ripping apart a zebra, nor take it into captivity and insist it eat a diet of shoots and leaves. I know a lot of vegetarians. Most of them don't eat meat either because of dietary reasons or because they simply don't like the taste of meat. I just find it silly when people say "But think about the poor animals" No, I need to survive. Meat is full of iron and other things we need. To me, it's just normal to have meat as part of a meal. As far as the planet is concerned, maybe eating so much meat will have no positive effect, but has anyone ever said it would? However I think it is a small percentage when you look at the bigger picture about how we are destroying this planet. There will never ever be a meat free world. But there are so many other things we can stop/start doing besides that.

Im surviving. So are my kids.
And obviously, no, nobody shoots a lion for eating a zebra, but for a few reasons; lions DONT EAT anything else apart from meat. They just dont. It is ALL they need (The same cannot be said for us)
and Mother Nature well equipped the lion to catch its prey. Strong legs, sharp claws, razor sharp teeth. We got......??

Anyway, the thread is about the impact on the planet, not whether we like animals or not

 

[BlackBerry25]

I def. think it is immoral.

It is ruining the planet. There are way too many of us, and the amount of meat that is eaten is quite frankly, disgusting. Farming and fishing methods are totally raping the earth.

I eat meat, but I really do want to cut back and just eat it a couple times a week and stop eating fast food. It's pure garbage. Plus meat these days is not the meat our grandparents were eating.

 

[Marzipan_girl]

Erghhh the whole "it's the circle of life...totally natural...lions eat zebra so we eat meat..." argument really piss me off lol. I'm sorry but a Lion doesn't intesively rear thousands and millions of zebra in tiny cages of 5 zebra head to tail...rotting in their own crab...injected full of hormones...cut down rainforest to rear more zebra...
Theres nothing wrong with killing animals OR eating meat. The way we source meat is the problem. Due to over population, it seems the only way now. And yes, it IS destroying our planet and therefore IS immoral. And most of us are choosing to ignore this fact...Hear no evil...see no evil. The truth is hard to face. We're not bad people for it...we're only human and therefore selfish creatures. Fact. We live in the now. That burger is SO good for that instant. It's easier to eat it than think of the long term impact on our planet. Sad but true.
And for the record, sure we may have evolved to eat meat, but we don't need it to survive. Vegetarians are some of the healthiest people around and often live longer.
I don't have anything against meat (although yup, i'm an animal lover!) I have something against destorying our planet.
FYi-iron and protein come in many forms, not just flesh

There are ethical ways to eat meat though. If you choose carefully...do your research. Rear your own, organic etc. Sadly these are often not practical or are too expensive for alot of us. Alot of people simply cannot afford to buy organic. This is what happens when the planet becomes so overpopulated

I really worry for our kids future....

 

[Marzipan_girl]

I def. think it is immoral.

It is ruining the planet. There are way too many of us, and the amount of meat that is eaten is quite frankly, disgusting. Farming and fishing methods are totally raping the earth.

I eat meat, but I really do want to cut back and just eat it a couple times a week and stop eating fast food. It's pure garbage. Plus meat these days is not the meat our grandparents were eating.

Couldn't agree more!!

 

[flubdub]

I def. think it is immoral.

It is ruining the planet. There are way too many of us, and the amount of meat that is eaten is quite frankly, disgusting. Farming and fishing methods are totally raping the earth.

I eat meat, but I really do want to cut back and just eat it a couple times a week and stop eating fast food. It's pure garbage. Plus meat these days is not the meat our grandparents were eating.

this^

Erghhh the whole "it's the circle of life...totally natural...lions eat zebra so we eat meat..." argument really piss me off lol. I'm sorry but a Lion doesn't intesively rear thousands and millions of zebra in tiny cages of 5 zebra head to tail...rotting in their own crab...injected full of hormones...cut down rainforest to rear more zebra...
Theres nothing wrong with killing animals OR eating meat. The way we source meat is the problem. Due to over population, it seems the only way now. And yes, it IS destroying our planet and therefore IS immoral. And most of us are choosing to ignore this fact...Hear no evil...see no evil. The truth is hard to face. We're not bad people for it...we're only human and therefore selfish creatures. Fact. We live in the now. That burger is SO good for that instant. It's easier to eat it than think of the long term impact on our planet. Sad but true.
And for the record, sure we may have evolved to eat meat, but we don't need it to survive. Vegetarians are some of the healthiest people around and often live longer.

and this!!

 

[caggimedicine]

Well... there are a lot of options other than vegetarianism. We do eat meat in our house, just not all the time Eating organic or sustainably sourced meat/fish for instance. Yes it's more expensive, but we don't NEED it every day... it's possible to have it as more of a treat than a staple. Factory farming is disgusting really, when you read anything about it...

Exactly the same here. My whole family are vegetarians. My husband and I eat meat, but are responsible meat eaters and see meat as a "treat" rather than something to eat every day. Responsibly sourced meat is more expensive... but it's so much better for you and I don't think we spend any more on meat a month than the next person because we don't have it every day. I don't feed Harry meat, but he does eat fish.

 

[flubdub]

People seem to be in the mind set that you need meat eat to survive, or you need to eat it with every meal! Its crazy!! Until that changes, the planet is going to keep going dooooown hill.

 

[Laura2919]

I eat meat, I enjoy eating meat but not every meal I have has to have meat on the plate. I do love meat and I agree that a plate is better (for me) with meat on it.

Chloe and Jaycee rarely have meat at home, just because they dont really like it. They chew it up and then spit it out so they tend to get more potatoes and veg when having a roast or mash and veg. I dont mind.

I like a balance, I'd be sick to death if I had it all the time..

But...... No I dont care about the impact its having and whether we are going to run out because I just dont think thats an issue right now. They will always find a way to produce meat whether it be cloning or some other messed up way and whether people like it or not if you LOVE your meat you will eat it regardless. This planet has bigger things to worry about than just this like how many cars drive on it everyday, thats the killer here.

I also think that the planet is going downhill because of other things not just this. This is a tiny little mini problem compared to all the others!