any 'natural' or AP approaches to toilet training?

[kosh]

I am a bit confused as to how to go about this
I am very much baby/toddler led but not sure if I might be waiting too long?

any advise or recommended reads?

 

[SarahBear]

A lot of AP parents just wait. Others will do diaper free time. There are many methods. If you have another kid, a very AP sort of method is EC (Elimination Communication). You have to start that one in infancy though.

 

[messica]

I consider myself largely AP and I did child led "training."

Quotes are there because I don't believe the process should involve any kind of parental influence but rather should be a natural discovery each individual child makes for themselves.

My daughter was 2 1/2 when the thought process kicked in. She asked for a potty seat because she told me she didn't want to poop in her diapers anymore. I told her that when she sorted out when to tell me she had to go *before* she went I'd sure get her one. Delivered factually, zero emotion on my part because I could have cared less if she could manage the skill at that point or not. She thought on it about a week and then one day SNAP - immediately started telling me every single time she needed to go, before she went, and never had a single accident after that, pee or poo, day or night.

My son was 3 1/4ish and one day he asked for underwear. I told him the same thing. Tell me before you need to go, keeping diapers dry, and you can sure get underwear. No big deal either way, just let me know when you can and you're ready. He stopped literally overnight and never had a single accident, pee or poo, day or night. We went and choose underwear for him and that was that.


No pressure. No tricks. No boastful pride. No manipulation. No shame. No bribes.

Although I'm sure it won't be a popular opinion here I don't believe in EC (studies have shown withholding voiding at a young age can be harmful to still developing internal organs so I don't believe that should be encouraged via EC or "training" processes). Nor do I believe that M&M's, sticker charts and promises of toys should be used to bribe a child into mastering a personal process.

I insisted on using the same approach with all of my daycare and foster kiddos and it's the only approach I've seen work 100% of the time, with 100% of kids, all under the age of 4, permanently with zero regression and with nothing but a huge boost for the individual's psyche (as long as intentional or unintentional language isn't used in tandem - labeling diapers as "for babies" and underwear for "big boys/girls" for example.....lots of kids have plenty of reasons they want to remain the baby, or have a fear being a big boy/girl so junk like that is just counter-productive). It should remain completely a non-issue to you as the parent/caregiver because it's not about you. The only prompting I offered while picking out that green potty seat with decorative stickers and those first Thomas underwear was "are you proud of yourself?" and when they both answered YES, I told them I was so happy for them for that


In short, there's no such thing in waiting too long if the child hasn't gotten there themselves yet

 

[katerdid]

I let my son decide. My mom had found a great deal on a potty seat in the summer last year. I was going to just leave them in storage but he showed an interest. So I told him what they were, how you'd use it etc, and he loved it. At that time he was telling me when he needed a new diaper.
Decided to do naked time and just helped him out getting on the potty if he needed. Hepicked up on it really fast so he pretty much was naked all the time at home and used the potty. When we'd go out, we'd put him in diapers.

Fast forward to 2 months ago. Finally felt confident to go out for short times in his undies. Slowly we transitioned to undies all the time. He still wears diapers at night but he's having more dry mornings.

I never forced him to do anything, never made it a big deal. Sometimes I'd get frustrated if he waited too long and had accidents, but that's part of life.

 

[Feronia]

We did a combination of part-time elimination communication starting at 6 months and then followed her cues as she was ready. We kept a little potty in the bathroom, and she would follow us in anyway whenever we went, and eventually she started sitting on her potty on her own, and sometimes she'd follow us in, we'd remove her diaper, and she'd actually use it. We would put her on it after naps and after feeding, and gradually she started using it more and more.

After a year, we started doing large chunks of diaper-free time, and there were accidents, but by 15 months she was fully potty trained at home without any sort of coercion, bribery, or formal method of training.

Individual personality is a big influence, too, though, and some toddlers just don't care, so it's good follow their cues and know that each child is ready at a different rate. I'll do the same things with our second, but for all I know this baby will be very different, which is totally fine!

 

[kosh]

many thanks for the replies ladies (and apologies for not thanking you sooner)
very interesting approach messica

my LO is now showing many more signs and doing at least one/two pee in the potty per day (first thing in the morning and before bath). we were away on holidays at the beach and he enjoyed being without nappy and seemed much more aware of everything but now we are back in the UK, and I am back to work etc can't just leave him without nappy. I'm concerned he might get confused with all this?

 

[patch2006uk]

My eldest has just come out of nappies last month. He took his time, but once he was ready, he was ready-no accidents, asks before he needs to go, can hold it if needed, knows how to wipe and dress and undress. I won't be in any hurry with ds2! Was worth the wait imo

 

[kosh]

so ladies, in your opinion, would 'accidents' be a sing that they are actually not ready?

 

[SarahBear]

so ladies, in your opinion, would 'accidents' be a sing that they are actually not ready?

I see them as part of the learning process. When Violet was not yet ready to be done with diapers, we still did diaper free time and there was a phase where I would leave her without a diaper until she peed on the floor or in the potty, whichever came first. Either way she was having an experience that helped her learn what her body was doing and how to respond to it. Kids also go through developmental phases that can result in not getting to the potty on time. That doesn't mean they're not ready; it just means you need to lower your expectations while they're going through the phase.

That's my take, anyway.

 

[patch2006uk]

For us, accidents meant not ready. As soon as he was ready, he was accident free. We'd tried a few times in pants at home, just to see what happened, but they just ended up soaked and DS ended up upset. I think it's very individual to the child tbh-what worked for all of our friends' families was totally different to what worked for us. I'd say try a few different things, and don't be afraid to stop if it's a disaster. It will happen eventually

 

[NDH]

How would you deal with my 2y9m old who at 2y4m decided she was done with nappies amd wanted panties. For months prior to that she had been pooping in her potty (which weve had in the house since she first started taking an interest in toileting at 16 months) 100% of the time and often pees as well. For several weeks she was using the potty completely on her own, or asking us for help if she knew she wouldn't make it in time. She was still in nappies for naps and bedtime at her request, occasionally waking dry but not always. And as we bed share I'm really not keen on stopping til I know shes able to stay dry in her sleep.

Anyway, after a couple weeks she started just peeing her pants. She knows she has to go, she just completely could not care less. She tells me not to look at her and then just pees - and within the last month pops too - where she's sitting. I've given her a cloth and had her clean it up, not making a fuss just saying oops it looks like you didn't make it to the potty in time. Please help mommy clean it up.
She is fine when we go out in public, but at home and recently at my parents house too its very hit and miss. Sometimes she'll go days without a single accident, and then two days ago she peed and pood on the floor 6 tikes before noon and twice again in the evening! Our house reeks as we have carpet and I can't properly clean it. She will not wear nappies. My husband and in are at the end of our rope and have resorted to bribes, which haven't been working, and hubby is wanting to start punishing her for "accidents" since they seem quite deliberate.

She doesn't seem to have any medical issues going on either.

Help!

 

[SarahBear]

How would you deal with my 2y9m old who at 2y4m decided she was done with nappies amd wanted panties. For months prior to that she had been pooping in her potty (which weve had in the house since she first started taking an interest in toileting at 16 months) 100% of the time and often pees as well. For several weeks she was using the potty completely on her own, or asking us for help if she knew she wouldn't make it in time. She was still in nappies for naps and bedtime at her request, occasionally waking dry but not always. And as we bed share I'm really not keen on stopping til I know shes able to stay dry in her sleep.

Anyway, after a couple weeks she started just peeing her pants. She knows she has to go, she just completely could not care less. She tells me not to look at her and then just pees - and within the last month pops too - where she's sitting. I've given her a cloth and had her clean it up, not making a fuss just saying oops it looks like you didn't make it to the potty in time. Please help mommy clean it up.
She is fine when we go out in public, but at home and recently at my parents house too its very hit and miss. Sometimes she'll go days without a single accident, and then two days ago she peed and pood on the floor 6 tikes before noon and twice again in the evening! Our house reeks as we have carpet and I can't properly clean it. She will not wear nappies. My husband and in are at the end of our rope and have resorted to bribes, which haven't been working, and hubby is wanting to start punishing her for "accidents" since they seem quite deliberate.

She doesn't seem to have any medical issues going on either.

Help!

I'd probably assume it was a phase and continue as you are doing except I wouldn't use bribes or punishments. Just natural consequences (wet pants and helping clean up) and saying things like you said. She'll come back around to it.

As for the smell, you can get spray from pet stores that removes the odor with enzymes. That may be a good way to go.

 

[NDH]

A five month phase though? 4 1/2 anyway... I've tried everything to remove the odour from natural remedies to expensive pet deodorizers. It still reeks of urine and we are renting so I can pretty much say for certain its cost us our $1200 bond. I'm doing laundry for her everyday because of the number of clothes shes wetting.
We've done naked time, I'm constantly reminding her to listen to her body and use the potty when she needs to go.
Hubby has said enough is enough and while he's been mostly agreable to the natural parenting approach until now he's had it and said "my way" obviously isn't working so its time to try it his way. And honestly, even if it was entirely up to me I'm ready to give up. And I mean attachment parenting all together some days!

 

[patch2006uk]

I'd put her back in nappies or pull ups tbh, and explain that she can't just wee and poo everywhere as it's not clean and it's not nice. It will be a phase, but it's not a nice one!

 

[NDH]

Ideas for keeping them on her then? (Assuming one can even get them on her. She screams blue murder and gets violent if you try, outside of nap time and bedtime.

 

[kosh]

have no advise sorry
but wanted to give support anyway

 

[messica]

I completely agree with patch - on everything lol

Accidents do mean kiddo isn't ready to me too kosh.

NDH - I'd definitely put her back in diapers. I'd have a calm sit down with her to talk about why she's doing what she's doing. Let her know that this isn't going to be allowed to continue on this way because it's not sanitary and clothing is not for peeing or pooing in. Let her know she has two choices, stop with the accidents, or she needs to go back to nappies because it seems she's not ready for unders. If she chooses to stop at that point - great. If not, let her know you'll give her three chances. After three accidents, the nappies are no longer negotiable. No amount of kicking or screaming would deter me from getting and keeping them on her. I wouldn't get mad or upset, or play into any dramatics, just keep a cool head. Show her that it's not going to rattle you and you will persist longer than she can and will. Remind her that it's no big deal she's not ready for unders yet, but that when she is she can show you by keeping the nappies dry again and then switch back.

I'm all about AP most of the time, but there are times where parents need to take control. The areas of safety and sanitation are two I won't budge on.


I'm not sure what you have available to you but when I did daycare Natures Miracle was my go to. https://www.amazon.com/Natures-Miracle-Remover-Gallon-512504/dp/B00025K0L2 Anything with enzymes in it will do though. When you're talking bodily fluids, urine, feces, vomit, drool.....the enzymes will literally eat away at what's making the stink

 

[SarahBear]

A five month phase though? 4 1/2 anyway... I've tried everything to remove the odour from natural remedies to expensive pet deodorizers. It still reeks of urine and we are renting so I can pretty much say for certain its cost us our $1200 bond. I'm doing laundry for her everyday because of the number of clothes shes wetting.
We've done naked time, I'm constantly reminding her to listen to her body and use the potty when she needs to go.
Hubby has said enough is enough and while he's been mostly agreable to the natural parenting approach until now he's had it and said "my way" obviously isn't working so its time to try it his way. And honestly, even if it was entirely up to me I'm ready to give up. And I mean attachment parenting all together some days!

That's an aweful long "phase." It's OK to go back to diapers while also encouraging your child to use the potty. It's not anti AP to put your kid in diapers. It doesn't mean that you've failed. It just means that your efforts haven't yet come to fruition.

 

[SarahBear]

Just read the part about getting them on her. I see your dilemma. I guess on the bright side, your carpet is already lost, so you don't have more to lose there and although 5 months is a long "phase," it will eventually pass! Sorry I don't have better advice to offer.

 

[pichi]

sorry to jump on this thread but on the topic of potty training... my daughter chose to stop using nappies one day and has been out of them since. The problem (well, not so much a problem but i hope you know what i mean) is that she is still wet at night. she doesn't even attempt to get up and go pee. this doesn't bother me that she is still in bedtime pants (pull-ups) but i'm wondering if there is anything i can do to encourage her. she's about to be 4