Autism debate

[BigZai]

I have never been sold that autism is a disorder. I never met someone is autistic or anyone who hasan autistic child so keep in mind I have no first hand or second had knowledge its just something I have wondered and found out that other share this belief
I believe autism MAY POSSIBlY just be a Natural human variation not a illness or disorder just like skin color or sexuality. It seems plausible especially with high functioning autism.

Just look up
Neurodiversity Movement Pier Jaarsma and Stellan Welin

I am not claiming this but I think it is possible

this is where the debate comes in many people dont even except this as a possibility

 

[VeryHopeful]

Quite the controversial topic. Be prepared for some not-so-happy comments. Anyway- my OH feels the same way you do about austism, but the only difference is that his cousin has it.

 

[BigZai]

Quite the controversial topic. Be prepared for some not-so-happy comments. Anyway- my OH feels the same way you do about austism, but the only difference is that his cousin has it.

Controversial doesn't bother me its very interesting to get other peoples views on things
I am prepared for not so happy comments but i always write saying either I dont really know or that its just my opinion.
One person who really shapes my view is Temple Gradin who is autistic. She changed things for the better in slaughter houses. Because she was autistic she understood the animals point of view.she came up with a squeeze machine which slowed down the blood flow of an animal which calmed them and made the whole process better. This squeeze machine was based off of hugging which calmed her because of the pressure slowing down the blood flow. She also had slaughter houses get rid of all red and yellow objects because she understood that those colors triggered a panic reaction.

 

[MizzDeeDee]

It is an inherited trait/experssion/mutation, which is a part of the human variation.

However, I think we should leave as defined in the DSM for those whom aren't high functioning so they can get the resources they need.

 

[mummy3]

I can see what you're getting at, but really dont think its that simple. My son is autistic, it runs the family, he happens to be high functioning with co morbid OCD, I dont consider him to have an illness and tbh dont put much thought into it being a disorder either. Labels are there as a means to an end to get the help for the people who need it, my son needs a fair amount of help, incuding going to special ed school programmes to help him handle society, I dont think it really matters whether this is a natural variation or a disorder or whatever as it doesnt change there being people needing help

 

[Menelly]

But Mummy, the question then becomes, does he need help because he naturally would need it to cope with any society, or does he need help because our current society expects him to fit in with how current society runs, without having to change or make accomidations on their own part?

I've always been floored at how much adaptation NT's (neurotypicals, for those who don't spend much time running around neurodiversity circles) expect the people with social disorders to make, while pretty much agreeing to make no changes themselves.

Of course, my signature should make it fairly clear that I think the spectrum is just one end of the vast human spectrum. I don't believe autism is a disease, and I definitely don't believe in a "cure". (Which would honestly probably just result in eugenics and the prenatal death of autistics.)

 

[Tiff]

Moved this to News & Debates. For more sensitive topics, this is a better forum to discuss them in.

I will say though, I am curious as to this debate if you have admittedly not had any first-hand experience with someone who is Autistic. Its fine to have beliefs of course... but if you've never known anyone to be Autistic nor known any Autistic children how exactly do you base your beliefs on it? Just on what your perception of it is?

Not trying to be rude or start an argument. I'm genuinely curious

My daughter is going through the motions of being diagnosed with Autism right now.

 

[TattiesMum]

But Mummy, the question then becomes, does he need help because he naturally would need it to cope with any society, or does he need help because our current society expects him to fit in with how current society runs, without having to change or make accomidations on their own part?

I've always been floored at how much adaptation NT's (neurotypicals, for those who don't spend much time running around neurodiversity circles) expect the people with social disorders to make, while pretty much agreeing to make no changes themselves.

I think that you could apply that to all kinds of things though? .... Depression, for example - do people suffer from depression because they can't cope with Society's expectations in respect of work/relationships/pressures etc?

Personally I tend to think that a large number of those who experience recurrent depression just find it hard to live in our driven, westernised society

It's interesting to speculate but, on the whole, I'm with MizzDeeDee - labels are there to make sure that people get the help they need as it's unrealistic to expect society to change back to how it used to be.

 

[Lynzeigh]

I feel this way more for Attention Deficit Disorder more than Autism. Autism seems like more of a real illness to me than ADD, seeing as some autistic children end up needing life long care as adults...it depends on the severity I guess. x

 

[twinkle1975]

I've worked with autistic children - particularly those who aren't classed as 'high functioning & I think I'd find it hard to say that their issues were more about society than themselves.

Some of the children I've worked with have no verbal language, are doubly incontinent, injure themselves and others and are unable to interact with those around them. I believe that these children will need life long full time support & that to say society needs to change to accomodate them would be a very short sighted view.

I also don't believe that autism is a disease or that it can be cured.

 

[mummy3]

But Mummy, the question then becomes, does he need help because he naturally would need it to cope with any society, or does he need help because our current society expects him to fit in with how current society runs, without having to change or make accomidations on their own part?

I've always been floored at how much adaptation NT's (neurotypicals, for those who don't spend much time running around neurodiversity circles) expect the people with social disorders to make, while pretty much agreeing to make no changes themselves.

Of course, my signature should make it fairly clear that I think the spectrum is just one end of the vast human spectrum. I don't believe autism is a disease, and I definitely don't believe in a "cure". (Which would honestly probably just result in eugenics and the prenatal death of autistics.)

Theoretically it could be either of thoses reasons or any other reason being as we dont know conclusively why he is autistic. Either way I doubt we could change attitudes of an entire society to test and see if that helps him. There's just no way to answer that.


I dont think its just limited to autism though, you could argue any condition is a variation on the human norm, even cancer which is the mutation of normal cells, that doesnt mean you dont try and treat it! You label it and classify it then apply the appropriate help Whether thats medication or therapies.

Tiff, good luck hun

 

[fidgets mammy]

it is a massive spectrum, and is within the same "family" as aspergers and add adhd.

i agree that unless you have encountered anyone with autism it is a hard one to go on. i am a nursery nurse, ive worked with children for 13 yrs and have come across many children who displayed signs of autism, many children who were autistic and many who were severe and many who only had slight signs. it is not all black and white with autism. i find autistic people truly fascinating!!

 

[stardust599]

I have worked with a little girl with severe autism. To say that her condition is just a variance of normal is insulting to her.

She is 10 and has no speech, she wears nappies and has absolutely no idea whether she is wet/dry/dirty, she bites and chews herself until her skin is so bloody, scaly and sore she has to be strapped down to stop her doing it. She spends her day rocking, screaming and distressed and no-one can get through to her. It's nothing to do with society and I would say she has a medical illness (not a disease).

 

[Tiff]

Personally I've found that people have a hard time (in general - not specifically someone on this thread/conversation) when you can't see/feel/touch it. If that makes sense?

Like say to diagnose Autism the main "symptom" was that your right arm turned blue. How blue it went or how far down the arm it went was an indication of where on the spectrum you were. Then I personally feel that people would understand it better.

Not sure if that makes sense?

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

Its so hard to diagnose. My son has autism and I dont say he has a disorder but he is definitely disabled by daily life.

 

[OmiOmen]

The brains of people with Autism are 'wired up' differently to that of neurotypical people. Now we can argue that we need to understand that people are different and we need to be more excepting as a society to those differences. Which I agree with. But we also must be careful not to pretend that Autistic people just need respect, which they do but that is not enough, because society is set up for neurotypical people to function in so that would be to ignore the issues of anyone who is not neurotypical.

I have a dyagnosis of Dyslexia and I am fairly sure I have and undiagnosed case of asperger's syndrome (high functioning Autism). My son is a lot like I was as a child and I think he too may have asperger's syndrome. So from my point of view I would like people to not be so critical of differences, as for the fact there is no 'cure' I am glad because I wonder why 'normal' people think it is so great. I am also glad my son is not 'normal'. But from my point of view of someone struggling to get a diagnosis I know the issues that we face and it is really hard for me being academically inclined and yet unable to use any of my abilities because society caters for people who have better social skills.

 

[YoshiPikachu]

The brains of people with Autism are 'wired up' differently to that of neurotypical people. Now we can argue that we need to understand that people are different and we need to be more excepting as a society to those differences. Which I agree with. But we also must be careful not to pretend that Autistic people just need respect, which they do but that is not enough, because society is set up for neurotypical people to function in so that would be to ignore the issues of anyone who is not neurotypical.

I have a dyagnosis of Dyslexia and I am fairly sure I have and undiagnosed case of asperger's syndrome (high functioning Autism). My son is a lot like I was as a child and I think he too may have asperger's syndrome. So from my point of view I would like people to not be so critical of differences, as for the fact there is no 'cure' I am glad because I wonder why 'normal' people think it is so great. I am also glad my son is not 'normal'. But from my point of view of someone struggling to get a diagnosis I know the issues that we face and it is really hard for me being academically inclined and yet unable to use any of my abilities because society caters for people who have better social skills.

Wll said.

 

[JASMAK]

...they aren't AUTUSTIC, they are 'people who suffer from autism'. Now for people who get pissed that *I* offend with what I just said...I dont care, because nothing could be more offensive than what I read. Good grief after ALL I went through, still go through, and watch my child SUFFER, yes...its a disordere, that can include seizures, and in my daughters case, low muscle control.....gah...too annoyed. Thats why its called autis spectrum DISORDER...its not a debate, its a FACT.

 

[Wildfire81]

I have worked with autistic adults and children. The adults I worked with were very high needs. Biting, pushing, punching people/walls/anything they find. Not toilet trained/non verbal except a few words like "mom" and "no". They did have BIT (behavior intervention therapy) to teach them to communicate better with signals or sign language. Part of the issue is frustration with not being able to communicate properly. So I firmly believe and know that autism is a real issue. I think sometimes it is easy for people to think about autistic children, but forget about what happens when they turn into adults. They need support too!

 

[Menelly]

...they aren't AUTUSTIC, they are 'people who suffer from autism'. Now for people who get pissed that *I* offend with what I just said...I dont care, because nothing could be more offensive than what I read. Good grief after ALL I went through, still go through, and watch my child SUFFER, yes...its a disordere, that can include seizures, and in my daughters case, low muscle control.....gah...too annoyed. Thats why its called autis spectrum DISORDER...its not a debate, its a FACT.

I am a "person on the spectrum". I identify as ASPERGERS, not "person with..." every single adult on the spectrum I know (and I know dozens as I'm part of groups like ASAN), whether autie or aspie, identifies as autistic, not "person with". Every single adult on the spectrum I know, from high functioning like me, to people in their 30s who need assitive technology to communicate would find it patently offensive to insist that how WE AS INDIVIDUALS choose to label ourselves is wrong and offensive and how a parent chooses to label us is OK. I am not a "person with aspergers" my son is not a "person with autism" and neither is my dad. As people actually ON the spectrum, we can damn well choose how we wish to be referred. Our spectrumness is defining of who we are as much as our brown eyes. You cannot remove our spectrumness and keep us the same people.

And we aren't "suffering" thank you very much. The only thing most autistics "suffer" from is parents who think their existance is a tragedy.