burning of the Koran

[sparkle_1979]

This has lead to UN workers in Afghanistan being killed for revenge. Do you think that the people who burnt the book have to take some responsibility of people now being killed in revenge or is it purely the people out taking revenge.

Personally I think burning the Koran was wrong and was obviously going to cause riots ect, but to kill people over it lies purely with the people who killed innocent UN workers...such a sad world we live in

 

[tallybee]

I think that there is a lot of tetchiness around, and it gets me really annoyed that we're not allowed to say anything about religions, particularly islam, without some off-the-scale backlash coming up. However, anyone choosing to publicly burn the koran must realise and in fact be pushing for a reaction... I mean look what happened when somebody named a bloody teddy bear Mohammed or whatever!

So I suppose what I'm saying is, the people who burned the koran clearly wanted a reaction. But cannot be blamed for the particular reaction that occurred. Extremist nutters that take 'insult' from anything and everything will still do nuttish things whether somebody burns a book or not

 

[Lightworker]

Dont know the details of this story though but I am not suprised cuz when it comes to some religions you can always expect an over-reaction that goes against everything the religion teaches. OT but was watching Simpsons and it reinforced something I was thinking about. People are willing to joke about Christ, Buddha etc without fear of significant backlash but will NEVER joke bout Islamic figures - we all know why.

 

[Lightworker]

Oops forgot to answer your question. The people in the wrong as far as the UN victims are concerned are the actual killers- not the burners. They killed people whose deaths they knew the world would react strongly to given that UN is meant to be our collective voice. Its just awful. I am even too afraid to express my full opinion on here lol

 

[freckleonear]

Dont know the details of this story though but I am not suprised cuz when it comes to some religions you can always expect an over-reaction that goes against everything the religion teaches. OT but was watching Simpsons and it reinforced something I was thinking about. People are willing to joke about Christ, Buddha etc without fear of significant backlash but will NEVER joke bout Islamic figures - we all know why.

Agree with the above. Glasgow City Council defaced a Bible with obscene messages at an exhibition, auctioned a 200-year-old Bible fried in batter and funded a play about Jesus being a transsexual woman, yet those things hardly even made the headlines. There seems to be a general attitude in our country that it's fine to mock other religions, but not Islam. Whilst I don't think it's very respectful to do things like burn the Koran, the people who did it are not responsible for the reaction. There is no excuse for murder.

 

[Jess137]

I live in the US, and the group that burned the Koran knew what the consequences could be for doing it. They had talked about it for a while but people were warning that it could cause Americans to be killed in retaliation. They finally did it, and look what happens. I know that it is not really the fault of the people who did the burning, but was it really necessary, given the potential response to it? The terrorists are not going to separate what one tiny group does from the rest of the Americans, even though many people have condemned what they did.

 

[elephant29]

I agree that we seem to fear doing anything that will enrage Islamic fundamentalists due to the extreme reactions a lot of them have. There is less fear when speaking about other religions which doesnt seem right.

Burning the Koran was disrespectful and un-necessary but those people are not responsible for the deaths, the murders are.

xxx

 

[ShanandBoc]

The burning of the Koran was wrong , i agree disrespectful and obviously done to generate a reaction, a very stupid thing to do, but its no excuse for murdering people.

Dont know how they think God approves of any of that behavior.

 

[summer rain]

Um I don't agree that there aren't backlashes when other religions are offended, there have been cases in just the past few years of a Sikh playwright getting death threats from fellow Sikhs, riots in India by Hindus leading to many deaths (in Gujurat a few years ago it was mainly Muslim victims) and there are nutjob purportedly Christian groups in several African countries who kill innocent people for spurious reasons. However it is only when it comes to Muslims that these things are widely reported, even though the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful law abiding people. The vast majority of news stories in this country regarding Muslims being offended regarding x, y or z are in the best cases, grossly exaggerated and at worst completely made up. Many Jewish leaders are deeply alarmed at the headlines about Muslims these days, because they are often very similar to news headlines in the 30s about Jewish people. I'm really quite disappointed that some ladies here take media hysteria at face value when it comes to Islam and Muslims.

As a Muslim, while I am offended by what Terry Jones is doing, it's between him and God at the end of the day, and the vast majority of Muslims feel the same. In Islam killing of innocents is completely not allowed and even proper wars have very strict rules and guidelines which even include not damaging crops and trees as this would destroy the livelihoods of the enemy after the war. We have to remember most Muslim countries are developing countries, even so most people there are extremely hospitable, friendly and peaceful people. Most people in Afghanistan can read the text of The Quran and other scripture but don't understand a word. I also suspect strongly that the governments in these places whip up anti western sentiment as it detracts from the massive corruption going on. There is a similar thing happening in some European countries against Muslims, making out that how some Muslim women choose to dress is the biggest problem facing society. It's called divide and rule and it's a well known political strategy.

 

[Lightworker]

Summer rain - when you say we take this media article at face value you are implying that there's something we've missed. What is that? How else should that article be interpreted? Perhaps your objectivity is clouded because by and large people are afraid, very afraid. (Also as an African I havent heard of these nutjob Christians, what country was that again so I can look it up?)

 

[Lightworker]

Summer rain- just googled the Christian killing witches in Africa. Yes that is absolutely shocking (and really a topic that could have its own thread). However, the point I was making is that in so many shows people use Christ for comic effect and they do so knowing chances of any significant reprisals are slim. It is not the same for Islamic figures.

 

[Sushai]

This is a very sensitive subject to be discussing. I for one agree very much with Summer rain. It is unfair how the media seems to focus on The minority of such a large religion, giving all members of that particular religion a bad name. Muslims have high respect for their religious figures that any sort of mocking or disrespect is not tolerated. No one likes to be made fun of especially not with something they have such strong beliefs in. I am in no way approving the killing of innocent people. Only God can make such decisions and only He can judge our actions.

What I don't understand is how when a Muslim person does something wrong it's a massive deal? But when a christian or person from another religion does the same their religion isn't mentioned? I mean, you don't hear 'a christian raped someone' or 'a Buddhist killed someone' (just examples) If you know what I mean? My point is there is good and bad in evey religion, culture, country or whatever.

The media also exaggerates when wanting to dish out a good story. I just don't think it's right to be 'afraid' of a certain religion if it's only a minority group stuffing it up for the rest of them. It isn't fair that the media puts such a huge amount of focus on the minority group and handing out a stereotypical view of something that only counts for a few.

Ok I don't know if that made sense. I don't mean to upset anyone. This is a forum after all and everyone is entitled to their opinion on a range of matters. Like I said in the beginning this is a very sensitive subject.

 

[Lightworker]

Yeah it is very sensitive but I think we need to all agree that we are all very respectful, nice people and nothing we say is intended to offend anyone but this is also an interesting topic where we should be open IYKWIM. I totally get that its a minority that give Islam a bad name, but it is a very powerful minority.

 

[Sushai]

I agree huggermomof2, it is a very powerful minority.

It is sad how in various situations the minority wreck it for everyone else.

 

[summer rain]

Summer rain- just googled the Christian killing witches in Africa. Yes that is absolutely shocking (and really a topic that could have its own thread). However, the point I was making is that in so many shows people use Christ for comic effect and they do so knowing chances of any significant reprisals are slim. It is not the same for Islamic figures.

Um there are several movies; Life of Brian is one, Last Temptation of Christ is another where the films had to be banned in several countries and even in many boroughs in the UK due to a backlash from Christians including death threats against the film makers. There are other cases in other African countries; such as the Lords Resistance Army in Uganda and there have been riots in mainly Christian areas of Nigeria; by Christians because they were offended by something. There are a lot of other examples as well. Muslims are unfairly represented as violent; for example a certain group that hold inflammatory protests that claim to be Islamic; they only have about 15 or 20 members if that and they actively invite the media to come, and this group are banned from most mosques and Islamic community centres because they make threats against Muslims as well and are just a bunch of unemployed bumbling idiots. Yet so many newspapers and news channels make out these idiots are somehow representative of all Muslims and when Muslim leaders speak out against this group and their ideology; it is barely covered by the media if it is at all. Yet the Westboro baptist church who are very, very similar and who have more members than this group are not made out to represent anyone but themselves and are portrayed as an amusing bunch and not really truly threatening at all. You also get so many cases as Sushai has pointed out where a murderer or rapist is called a 'Muslim murderer' or 'Muslim rapist' this isn't the case with Christians or those of other faiths. Same with so-called honour killings and forced marriages; these are commonplace in some Hindu and Sikh communities as well and there have been a couple of cases in recent years of these killings actually being carried out by religious leaders from those faiths, but all they get is maybe 5 tiny lines somewhere towards the middle of the newspapers but if its a 'Muslim' even though its someone who drinks, smokes and even actively says they don't believe in Islam yet just has a Muslim name; then the newspapers make a big hoohah about it and say its due to Islam.

 

[summer rain]

Summer rain - when you say we take this media article at face value you are implying that there's something we've missed. What is that? How else should that article be interpreted? Perhaps your objectivity is clouded because by and large people are afraid, very afraid. (Also as an African I havent heard of these nutjob Christians, what country was that again so I can look it up?)

I'm talking about the way these articles are presented , what happened was a horrible and completely unIslamic crime and not representative of Muslims or the Afghan people, I have also seen many ladies on here taking at face value articles about Muslims wanting Xmas banned or articles about how Al-Muhajiroun are a mainstream Muslim group for example. People don't take articles in the DM, Express etc at face value when it comes to parenting issues et al as they know its a lot of tripe. When the tripe applies to Muslims, it isn't questioned. My objectivity isn't clouded; I was not born into a Muslim family I came to Islam and people are mostly very, very afraid because of lies from the media this was something that appalled me (and these media lies appall my non-Muslim parents equally) even before I came to the faith. Even looking on 4 on demand; I see that a very interesting programme with Peter Oborne about how Muslims are being falsely scapegoated by the media leading to some very serious physical attacks on innocent Muslims that I wanted to link to has been removed from the site but several documentaries showing 'Muslims' preaching hatred that were broadcast before this one, have been left. This is just another example of what leads to there being a very skewed picture. If you google a blog called Islamophobia watch (which has both Muslim and non Muslim contributors) there are attacks on Muslim places of worship and individuals several times a week in this country alone; often leading to people being seriously injured; yet it is almost never reported in the national mainstream media (only local newspapers and TV). Yet you'll get a case of a drunk Asian (and Asian automatically equals Muslim of course) in Bradford or something vandalising a church in a very rare incident and its on the national news or in the national newspapers and made out to be a widespread problem.

 

[summer rain]

I myself have been physically attacked including being doused in cider and having my clothing ripped; for being Muslim, I was just innocently walking through my local park. I have also received threatening letters from those purporting to be Christian, just for pointing out in a letter to The Times the truth regarding what Islam actually says about rioting and violence (it was after the Oldham riots in 2001) and that 'white' and 'muslim' are not two mutually exclusive categories of people. Muslim organisations I know get such letters/emails all the time it has just become normal to them. Of course those sending the letters/emails are usually right-wing extremists and Muslims view them as such and not representative of the Christian faith.

 

[ShanandBoc]

I myself have been physically attacked including being doused in cider and having my clothing ripped; for being Muslim, I was just innocently walking through my local park. I have also received threatening letters from those purporting to be Christian, just for pointing out in a letter to The Times the truth regarding what Islam actually says about rioting and violence (it was after the Oldham riots in 2001) and that 'white' and 'muslim' are not two mutually exclusive categories of people. Muslim organisations I know get such letters/emails all the time it has just become normal to them. Of course those sending the letters/emails are usually right-wing extremists and Muslims view them as such and not representative of the Christian faith.

That is terrible summer rain u poor thing

A 'true' christian would never behave like that.

Im so sorry you were put through that

 

[summer rain]

Shana thank you I know, and a 'true' Muslim would never behave as we have seen in Afghanistan either. Protests (as it was a mass protest that led to this incident at the UN) are not even allowed in Islam, full stop because of the trouble and strife they can whip up, and this is even from 'hardline' scholars from countries such as Saudi Arabia. Here is the view of one scholar from Saudi Arabia


Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan said in Majmoo' Fataawa wa Rasa'il -Volume Two, Number 141, 143, and 146, “Our religion is not a religion of chaos. Our religion is a religion of discipline, and a religion of order, and calm, and tranquillity. And demonstrations are not from the actions of the Muslims and it is not something the Muslims are familiar with. And the religion of Islam is a religion of calm, and a religion of mercy, and a religion of discipline; not chaos, and not disorder, and not of inciting trials. And this is the religion of Islam. And rights are earned by asking for them in the manner legislated by the Shariah and through ways legislated by the Shariah. And demonstrations cause bloodshed and cause the ruination of wealth. And these matters are not permissible.”

The vast majority of Islamic scholars agree with him. Sadly though many people act completely out of their own desires and try to somehow make out it is something sanctioned by their religion.

 

[ShanandBoc]

Shana thank you I know, and a 'true' Muslim would never behave as we have seen in Afghanistan either. .

Of course