burning of the Koran

[summer rain]

Muslim women who wear any form of hijab do so for modesty reasons, and Muslim men are commanded to dress and behave modestly as well, in fact the onus is on them to lower their gaze first before the injunctions on dress. I personally wear hijab and have on occasion worn niqab, entirely of my own volition, I like my own space and sometimes like to go about my business in peace and quiet. I do get harassed in just hijab more than in niqab, in niqab because of that anonymity people are less likely to shout 'oi ninja' etc etc. I've been to many segregated islamic and social events as well and it's like the women totally have their own domain to be themselves and let their hair down, far more so than I ever experienced pre Islam. There are probably a lot of books out there saying how such and such was so oppressed by the burqa but there are plenty of books from the opposite side as well but they don't become as big and popular because it's not what people want to hear. I've read many books about polygamist sects in the US, they are interesting and it sounds like those women writing the books have had one heck of a crazy life but I'm sure they don't represent everyone living a polygamist lifestyle.

 

[Lightworker]

Summerain- you are awesome! I love your wealth of knowledge on this issue. I do have to say though, the stats did make mention of percentages of clitorectomies down to the full exision of the genitalia. Either way, any form of FGM is brutal and if there's areas where doctors or statiticians fail to distinguish it makes absolutely no difference IMO because it is still very very wrong. I am inclined to believe the figures are a much lower reflection of the actual scenario as they are grossly under-reported.

 

[summer rain]

Well if thats the case then the figures on Yemen are wrong then, sorry. Pharonic circumcision is virtually unheard of there perhaps except amongst some Somali immigrants. I have a lot of yemeni friends and many of them were born in Yemen; none of them have had any form of FGM. I do think they should make the distinction, I have known women who have had the very minor form and while it is mainly cultural and they wouldn't have it done to their own daughter, as an adult women they cannot feel any difference and medical professionals cannot tell any difference. I know a lady who is a midwife in Norway (native Norwegian) and she says the women who have had minor forms (which only involve removal of a fingertip sliver of skin, if that); which in some cases do involve as little as a prick with a needle in a symbolic gesture; but again this is not distinguished in figures a lot of the time, you really cannot tell and it makes no difference to the woman, I am not defending any form of FGM but sometimes entire nations are being falsely made out to be performing drastic and brutal mutilation on their women and girls when this isn't the case. I am afraid in some cultures maybe at some point in the distant past or even not so distant past; they did practice more severe forms and this minor form is them not being able to fully let go of the last remnants of it, still it is far better than what was going on before and I'm sure in a few more generations any type of practice of this nature will have died out completely. If they don't make the distinction then individuals in those countries will just turn around and say oh these people don't know what goes on in our country, because we don't do what they are talking about, and resist any efforts from NGOs to help eradicate the problem. I also know Somali girls who haven't been circumcised having medical professionals presume they must have been circumcised because they are Somali and thus categorised as high risk during pregnancy. My sister in law was asked by a midwife at her booking appointment; with her husband present if she had been beaten by him and if she was circumcised, unbelieveable! My husband's family are not involved in any form of FGM and his dad (who is quite a prominent figure) speaks out against it; as do most of the Somali community in this country actually. While I believe it is important to address these issues there is a way of doing it, just because someone is Somali doesn't mean they have been subjected to FGM nor are they a victim of domestic violence.

 

[Lightworker]

Hmm- I was also asked if I was circumsized because I come from a country thats notorious for it and admittedly it threw me off, but I think its better to be asked and get the right care than not. Even if they take a finger tip off that is still a crime against the person because firstly, it is usually done before they are adults to consent and secondly, I know a milimetre off my clitoris would hugely impact on my sexual enjoyment. They cant say it doesn't make a difference because they don't know any better

 

[Lightworker]

Sorry OP for totally diverting this thread- I have a tendency to get carried away lol

 

[Lightworker]

Sorry OP for totally diverting this thread- I have a tendency of getting carried away lol

 

[summer rain]

Hmm- I was also asked if I was circumsized because I come from a country thats notorious for it and admittedly it threw me off, but I think its better to be asked and get the right care than not. Even if they take a finger tip off that is still a crime against the person because firstly, it is usually done before they are adults to consent and secondly, I know a milimetre off my clitoris would hugely impact on my sexual enjoyment. They cant say it doesn't make a difference because they don't know any better

Its not the clitoris itself they remove a tiny mm from, its the hood at least from what I have read, to remove anything from the clitoris itself is completely haram in Islam. In a lot of countries they just prick the hood with a needle, it makes no difference at all as the clitoris itself is completely untouched, though it is needless and can cause infection and there are other health risks as well particularly if carried out by unskilled midwives and other folk medicine practitioners, I don't want to be pedantic but I believe that is better than what previously went on in some countries and a stepping stone to eradicating it completely, you're not going to convince people to go from full pharonic mutilation which has existed for 3000 years in some cultures, to nothing overnight, sad but true. in fact its an increasingly popular surgery in the US and UK though it goes by the fancier name of 'labiaplasty' or 'hoodectomy' actually most women who opt for such surgeries in the west have far more invasive forms done than what I am talking about as they tend to involve drastic reshaping of the labia and removal of the entire clitoral hood, supposedly because it increases desire to have this; not decreases it. I have known a couple of women; who had this surgery as an adult because of arousal problems but they did have a medical condition where the hood skin was too thick; most women do not and there is no way of telling with a young girl if she'll have a problem in the future so performing it on that proviso is false as well, but I think in cases where the more severe forms are so ingrained in the culture the very minor form may be a stepping stone to total eradication. Anyway sorry for hijacking the original thread x

 

[Lellow]

Summer rain - MashAllah, your very knowledgable....I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread!
Thanks to Shan and Hugger too

 

[summer rain]

Thanks hun, I don't like to think of myself as knowledgeable just passionate about giving the true picture of Islam xx