Changes to fsh and amh numbers

[ps57002]

Is it possible that 2 labs have huge difference or have my numbers changed.

Am 40, history of endometriosis, endo cyst surgery 10 yrs ago, bc pills a decade to prevent more, no pregnancy ever. Hubby 47. Trying last 1 yr plus. No luck, cycle every month but bit off 24-31 days.

Saw first clinic. FSh 19.3, amh nonexistent 0.04. Depressed was told ivf (before even seeing blood result). Didn't go back. Blood test end April.

Started acupuncture after reading some yelp review. Definitely helped stress level. That month took Shea 25 mg very irregularly. Maybe 7 days that cycle in May. Saw new doc mid June. Told chance with own egg ivf 10 percent and not recommended, to go donor route. Got blood test done. Was so depressed and acupuncturist felt sad for me, stepped up with herbs. No dhea as was too depressed gave up. Took coq10 regularly. Just got blood test results fsh 11.2 amh .46. Doc still says with history and results own egg pointless, go donor.

I ask why number changed, says labs can have differences and not get hopes up. But isn't that a significant change? I asked if it's due to acupuncture she dismissed it. What do u think?

Gonna get hsg done next week to ck tubes.

Can it be the first lab showed lower numbers so doc could push desperation and ivf.

What to trust....

 

[aalam9199]

I had the same thing happen am went from .55 to 1.01. I don't even know what to think of that. So I hope someone is able to give some insight. Good luck!

 

[kazazza]

I think that it is possible for labs to do things differently (one of my doctors insists on a particular lab for this reason).

However, my amh numbers got a lot better (0.2 to 1.6) after about 10 months of acupuncture, chinese herbal medicine, and daily supplements.

This is a pretty big jump, so I think that the tcm and supplements had to have played a role.

 

[ps57002]

Thank you aalam9199 and kazazza for your responses.

It helps to hear that others have experienced this as well. Gave the numbers to my acupuncturist yesterday and she was more about the FSH levels than AMH. She feels the acupuncture is working and to keep trying. She never promises anything, just that we will do what is needed to get body back into synch. My AMH changed from 0.04 to 0.46, to me that's significant change. This was even without the herbs, just stress reduction and acupuncture/moxibustion. She wants me to get blood tested in Aug cycle, which I plan to do.

It seems that TCM and acupuncture does help numbers change. I wish it would lead to a natural pregnancy (though hubby is bit done and out for now, depressed). I have HSG test tomorrow, that I am anxious about having heard all the horror stories of pain etc. I am pretty sure my tubes are blocked due to endo (doc say so, with history of that and surgery). So expecting pain. Maybe it'll open it some for a natural conception???

I can't believe the doc so casually just stated that not to get hopes up with numbers changed, it's still donor egg option only. I only have 10% chance with my own and IVF. Not much encouragement there..... I wish I could prove her wrong.

really want to avoid IVF/Donor eggs/Meds and all that....

Feeling bit sad today

 

[MariaIsabella]

So sorry you feel sad today. Wanted to give you a couple of positive stories .

A really good friend tried for a baby some time and the doctor basically told her that no point with IVF because she had no eggs. She is 44 years old... Guess what, she became pregnant naturally and will give birth in August.

A work colleague who is 45 just gave birth to twins!

Not saying you should be delusional but it is definitely possible.

Don't worry too much about the HSG, its really quick. Just take some pain killers before and you will be fine.

 

[ps57002]

So sorry you feel sad today. Wanted to give you a couple of positive stories .

A really good friend tried for a baby some time and the doctor basically told her that no point with IVF because she had no eggs. She is 44 years old... Guess what, she became pregnant naturally and will give birth in August.

A work colleague who is 45 just gave birth to twins!

Not saying you should be delusional but it is definitely possible.

Don't worry too much about the HSG, its really quick. Just take some pain killers before and you will be fine.

Thank you. I needed some positive stories today. Somehow feeling down. I keep reading all the positive stories out there to give me hope. Hubby is more depressed than me it seems. I try to keep going even though it seems the docs have killed all the dreams, snatched it away. Somehow I feel my body is not done though. Never tried to get preg. took birth control pills forever to keep endo in control. I feel my body went to sleep like sleeping beauty and needs to wake up and get back to work..

 

[kazazza]

Good luck with the HSG!

None of the doctors I've seen have ever been open to considering that Chinese medicine may be effective. The best I've gotten is silence, which I assumed was their way of being 'polite.' At the same time, these doctors have absolutely nothing to offer for potentially improving fsh or amh...

I know that my numbers haven't improved because of western doctors, so I'm continuing tcm.

 

[ps57002]

Good luck with the HSG!

None of the doctors I've seen have ever been open to considering that Chinese medicine may be effective. The best I've gotten is silence, which I assumed was their way of being 'polite.' At the same time, these doctors have absolutely nothing to offer for potentially improving fsh or amh...

I know that my numbers haven't improved because of western doctors, so I'm continuing tcm.

I wonder why doctors don't like to admit that alternate medicine and treatment do play a role and that they don't know it all. They just have their perspective and all else is supposedly playing with our mind.

Got hsg done, as was gonna try get insurance to see less invasive won't do and gotta go straight to ivf. Needed show tubes blocked for that. Took 2 Advil before. Was def painful still. I even hate pap so maybe I am just more pained by these. Doc had difficulty getting me ready in a way due to a cervical polyp in way. So that itself took 2 tries and was painful. The dye part is quick thankfully but painful cramp like. As soon as over feel better.

Asked doc who did it how it looked. Said dye did end up flowing through. Left was bit more difficult. So guess can't show insurance tubes blocked and ivf best shot or maybe tubes got cleared due to the dye???

Don't know what next step will be. Can't do much without insurance $$.

Guess gonna try naturally this cycle...

Don't know if to be happy or sad that tubes open

 

[lisap2008]

If both tubes spilled dye then your tubes are open, my left side was slow to spill too but it was because of how I was laying.
I believe acupuncture and coq10 can improve your chances of conceiving. I would keep doing acupuncture and keep taking coq10 or if you can afford it switch to ubiquinol its the active form of coq10 so its more readily absorbed said to be better for us over 40's.
I think most doctors like to advise IVF with donor eggs as the only option over 40 because that gives us the highest chance of pregnancy also failed cycles dont look good on their stats so they typically dont want to even try. but it can happen naturally.
I have seen many success storys.

 

[ps57002]

lisap2008

Thank you for the response. I am taking COQ10 in the ubiqunol form. Not very consistent in all I take but I try. I kinda stopped acupuncture last week. Too depressed and don't see a point as hubby is too depressed for anything to happen, if you know what I mean. Can't do it by myself

So considering the other doc told me dye flowed, I arranged to go back to this doc that I first saw, more convenient location/time to me. I figured no harm trying IUI, maybe with minimal meds...I'd rather build up the meds than start up high just because that's what they think I should because of age death sentence. I'm scheduled to go next week for consult for IUI. This place told me IVF first time without really any tests. I figured if insurance will say no as tubes not blocked, and I can't afford IVF on own, no harm in trying IUI even if 2% chance as tubes are not blocked.

So yesterday the doc who made me do HSG left message saying they will try to put through to insurance, HSG shows my tubes may have some blockage...

So now I am confused. Day of test, the doc who did it said they were trying to put through less dye to show blockage, but ehh it flowed...and now my regular doc who saw it says looks like it may be blocked to put it in for insurance, to get approval. Who is right? Who do you believe? is it all about $$$ and knowing business was almost lost, that now say it's blocked to salvage me as patient on IVF? Both doc doing HSG and my own work together. Not like doc doing test was not competent to know what she saw....

What do you believe? I was gonna try IUI with other place based on what first doc who did HSG told me. So am I to believe it is really blocked or not blocked to try IUI.

I hate this whole thing...I hate it. All docs care about is their own pockets.

 

[lisap2008]

lisap2008

Thank you for the response. I am taking COQ10 in the ubiqunol form. Not very consistent in all I take but I try. I kinda stopped acupuncture last week. Too depressed and don't see a point as hubby is too depressed for anything to happen, if you know what I mean. Can't do it by myself

So considering the other doc told me dye flowed, I arranged to go back to this doc that I first saw, more convenient location/time to me. I figured no harm trying IUI, maybe with minimal meds...I'd rather build up the meds than start up high just because that's what they think I should because of age death sentence. I'm scheduled to go next week for consult for IUI. This place told me IVF first time without really any tests. I figured if insurance will say no as tubes not blocked, and I can't afford IVF on own, no harm in trying IUI even if 2% chance as tubes are not blocked.

So yesterday the doc who made me do HSG left message saying they will try to put through to insurance, HSG shows my tubes may have some blockage...

So now I am confused. Day of test, the doc who did it said they were trying to put through less dye to show blockage, but ehh it flowed...and now my regular doc who saw it says looks like it may be blocked to put it in for insurance, to get approval. Who is right? Who do you believe? is it all about $$$ and knowing business was almost lost, that now say it's blocked to salvage me as patient on IVF? Both doc doing HSG and my own work together. Not like doc doing test was not competent to know what she saw....

What do you believe? I was gonna try IUI with other place based on what first doc who did HSG told me. So am I to believe it is really blocked or not blocked to try IUI.

I hate this whole thing...I hate it. All docs care about is their own pockets.

I agree its all about $$ and its sad, I still think both tubes are open if they spilled, if they were completely blocked no dye would have spilled, if there is a minor blockage then dye can spill but would do so slowly and not much dye would spill, so maybe thats what the doc is thinking is there may be a minor blockage, But then if not much dye was pushed through then I am not sure what to think, the doc who did mine did it very slowly but they did push all the dye through. and my right tube spilled very fast , left tube didn't spill much till I turned to my left a bit.
I hope the IUI works for you.

 

[ps57002]

Thank you again Lisap2008:

I think the docs add more stress to our already stressful situation....

I am more confused now after speaking with my doc regarding the HSG. She says she looked at report, it shows one tube blocked, the other is questionable. Says the confusion might be because the doc who was doing it was trying to say it was questionable. I remember the one who did it initially said seems one cleared, the other questionable. Then a few mins later while I gathered myself, upon asking again, she was like "ehh we were trying to not put too much to show it was blocked, but ehh..." so I asked her "I know for insurance purpose was to show blocked, so it's really open" and I think she kind of "ehhh" it again. Maybe I was too traumatized after it to remember clearly or mistook????

Now doc says she will try to get insurance to approve IVF based on this test. I asked, worst case scenario if they say no considering "one tube questionable", can we consider IUI based on what she sees on HSG report. She says we can consider IUI. Makes me more suspicious and confused. If one is blocked, the other is questionable, then how could you say worst case, we can try IUI. For that at least one tube has to be good, mechanically it wont work otherwise. So is it the report is being made to look worse for insurance or to keep me as patient with them.

Based on what first doc said that tubes looked "ehh cleared dye", I made appt to discuss IUI with clinic I first went to. That one also told me IVF form get go. I figured I can push for IUI based on open tubes and no insurance. This place is 10x more convenient to me with work, hours, location, etc. The other place is a hassle. Now what to tell this doc and try to get IUI. Should I bother going and tell him that the other place is confusing me, let him get report from them....

I think I trust my acupuncturist more than these doctors. She doesn't promise, does her own thing, seems to care and listen to what I say, and cheers me for improvements I make, not always giving me death sentence. She just keeps trying... Why these docs have to be so about $ and their stats and all. Why not care about people who are going through so much and don't need this stress on top of it all.

Guess either way, in 1 1/2 wk or so, will either start IUI or IVF at either one of these places.....

 

[lisap2008]

Even if one tube is closed and the other open IUI can still work , but they would need to give you enough meds to stimulate both ovarys, I think IVF would give you the best chance though so I hope it does get approved. best of luck.

 

[ps57002]

Don't know how I feel this am, just that feel really sleep deprived.

So with second clinic, trying to move with IVF next week. Basically I had to push for it with doc saying you won't stimulate. IVF will go through if I can get all insurance/paperwork, etc in time by Tues next week (hope period doesn't start early again this cycle, then forget it). Insurance will prob not be an issue and meds too (surprisingly). I asked about IUI, he said then I'd have to wait a month for IVF after. He hasn't seen the HSG report from other clinic yet (and getting them to forward in time is proving to be another headache). I'm stressed now....

So will see... I asked if can convert IVF to IUI if not stimulating enough, he said yes. Then wonder why have to wait IVF after IUI because he supposedly said the medication thing is different.

I need a crash course in this.. It's too much and I don't understand.

 

[Briss]

I would not pay a lot of attention to the change in FSH levels. FSH fluctuates a lot between cycles. It also depends on your cycle day (it will change quite a lot from day 2 to day 4) and also your oestrogen levels: the higher estogen the lower FSH.

Re AMH, it depends a lot on your vitamin D levels. if you have been taking vit D it will increase your AMH.

What you need to know is that your FSH is high overall and your AMH is low. this means that you may not respond to stimulation and may not produce many eggs. but again it depends on your follicle count as well. although not every follicle will grow an egg in the end.

having said all that, ladies get pregnant naturally with FSH of 80! as long as you ovulate and have your cycle you can get pregnant regardless of FSH. It's not FSH that's stopping you to get pregnant it's more likely your tubes or something else. you can also try natural IVF without stimulation or mild IVf with lower doses. clinics will be pushing donor eggs at you because that's where they make a lot of money. do not get discouraged.

My advice is not to spend too much time on TCM and acupuncture and do not expect miracles. TCM may improve your overall balance and for some that's just enough to get pregnant but for most it's not. The important thing is time. If you are over 35 your FSH/AMH will be getting worse with time that's inevitable. TCM may slower this process but it will not stop it. I am saying this because I regret spending a year on TCM (my FSH went up actually), I should have moved to IVF sooner. it may take more than one IVf to get you pregnant so time is important.